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#BlackLivesMatter

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  • #BlackLivesMatter

    Can we attempt to have a real conversation about this? (She says as she gears up for a huge rant that leaves no room for anyone else's opinions...)

    I'm pissed off. I'm amazed that this phenomenon of police killings hasn't hit a true peak yet. With all the new publicity about very old institutional racism inherent in our police forces, still new incidents continue to happen every single day, and people keep dying -- and cops continue to be celebrated for it. Since when is ANY legal infraction grounds for being shot? Since when is it OK to shoot a person for running, for struggling? Is there any city, any police force in this entire country where they are doing something positive and proactive to stop this - something that can be a model for others? And I'm not talking about the paltry community efforts where cops go hang out with a couple black kids for a couple hours and then claim everybody can get along.

    I guess I'll give you the background... a few weeks ago a man was shot by an officer for resisting arrest following a traffic stop. He may have been intoxicated or on drugs and he attempted to drive away. He was not aggressive, he was running. The officer shot him in the head. I went to college with him. He was my neighbor. He was a friend of many of my friends. He may have had a substance abuse problem, but he was a good person and not a violent threat. He had a wife and young children, and a good job. This isn't an "other places" and "other people" problem, it's something that is literally happening to our neighbors.

    What I keep thinking, every time I see another news story, is that I just don't care if this person was "resisting arrest", whatever that has come to mean in this day and age (because it seems you can now be arrested for resisting arrest and nothing else...). I don't care if he was breaking traffic laws. I don't care if she talked back. I don't even care if he took a swing at a cop. He shouldn't have been shot. She shouldn't be dead. Was this person pointing a loaded gun at someone? Coming at you with a knife? No? Then they should still be alive. Full stop, fuck everything else. Guns have become the solution to every problem faced by cops today. Find yourself in a challenging situation? Shoot!

    My FIL is a cop. I love him and I think he has good judgement. I don't think all cops are bad, I don't think most cops are bad. But I also don't think that these killings are only being done by the few and far between "bad cops". I think they're being done by a confused, overwhelmed and undertrained group of people who live their lives in the shadow of fear of true crime and violence. People who begin to see threats everywhere, and who are supported by a culture that calls them heroes and tells them that it's heroic to shoot first and ask questions later. And by a culture that makes vast generalizations and assumptions about blackness and criminality. All of those factors converge to make an officer who can legitimately say he feared for his life, that he thought a person was a threat. Because of their blackness and his fear and cultural training. That officer is carrying a loaded gun, and he's a danger to society. What can we do about it?

    I honestly don't know. My FIL would probably say more training for officers and more community outreach, but it seems too little too late. What is the solution, really? I think that police forces need to be overhauled and retrained. I think that drastic, progressive reorganization and education need to take place, and police forces need to offer good enough opportunities to employ an educated, well-trained and diverse group of people. And it's not going to happen because everybody is going to complain about the use of tax dollars. Maybe charitable organizations will take on funding police violence prevention as a pet project. But that seems pretty unlikely too given who controls most of the charitable money in this country.

    Anyway, I'm at a loss. I've avoided this subject entirely on social media out of respect for my ILs but it's boiling over.
    Wife of PGY-4 (of 6), cat herder, and mom to a sassy-pants four-nager.

  • #2
    I don't want to say too much, except that I think body cams are a win-win situation in protecting police officers and the community at large.
    Married to a newly minted Pediatric Rad, momma to a sweet girl and a bunch of (mostly) cute boy monsters.



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    • #3
      I just feel like we're in such a shitty situation as a country where people of color can't feel like any traffic stop is safe and actually related to their driving AND where police officers feel like every traffic stop of a person of color could be seen as a racist act. Regardless of whether or not a crime has/has not been committed, there is so much mistrust and I don't even know where to start.
      Married to a Urology Attending! (that is an understated exclamation point)
      Mama to C (Jan 2012), D (Nov 2013), and R (April 2016). Consulting and homeschooling are my day jobs.

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      • #4
        Body cams prove what really happened. But they treat the symptoms, not the disease. I agree that they should be used, but they're not any kind of solution.
        Wife of PGY-4 (of 6), cat herder, and mom to a sassy-pants four-nager.

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        • #5
          I dunno...I think a police officer is going to think twice about doing something wrong if it is being filmed. And if they aren't doing anything wrong, it will allow them to prove that to everyone. Imagine how much differently Ferguson would have played out with a body cam, or even a dash cam. It's creating accountability on both sides.
          Married to a newly minted Pediatric Rad, momma to a sweet girl and a bunch of (mostly) cute boy monsters.



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          • #6
            Originally posted by SoonerTexan View Post
            I dunno...I think a police officer is going to think twice about doing something wrong if it is being filmed. And if they aren't doing anything wrong, it will allow them to prove that to everyone. Imagine how much differently Ferguson would have played out with a body cam, or even a dash cam. It's creating accountability on both sides.
            I do totally agree with this... but again, it's a symptom, not the underlying problem. And too often there is video and there is proof, and we're still not holding officers accountable because "they feared for their lives". They may very well have feared for their lives, but that fear may have been dangerously misplaced and based on an undercurrent of racism and this perfect shitstorm of cultural issues that are causing fear and tension between cops and citizens, like T&S pointed out. And all of that doesn't make killing an unarmed person OK. Putting body cams on cops will make them afraid of punishment, but it won't make them less afraid of black people.
            Wife of PGY-4 (of 6), cat herder, and mom to a sassy-pants four-nager.

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            • #7
              I've been thinking a lot about this too. I can't believe people deny that there is institutionalized racism remaining in this country. I really want to say that if you admit racism permeates our culture it in no ways makes your pain less worthy. Being a human being involves pain. Acknowledging someone else's pain in no way diminishes yours. In fact, in some ways it can help heal people. I'm saying this in the context of police brutality, but I really believe it extends to everything from education to voters' rights.
              In my dreams I run with the Kenyans.

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              • #8
                I'm so sorry for your loss. There's just no reason why a person should be shot when they're not a danger to others.

                I don't think that we should be too quick to discount the use of body cameras. There have been studies, most famously hand washing studies, that show people behave better when they know they're being observed. They may not prevent all of these deaths, but if they even reduce them a little, that's a lot of lives saved. I think combining body cameras with continual training and community interaction could end up making a big difference in police violence.
                Laurie
                My team: DH (anesthesiologist), DS (9), DD (8)

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                • #9
                  Both really excellent points... [MENTION=792]houseelf[/MENTION] I see that inability to recognize others' pain in my MIL and it really bothers me. She often posts things on Facebook about ”blue lives matter" (officer lives) and I find it so incredibly offensive and insensitive that she and others feel this need to appropriate a message that is so important to so many people and make at oppositional: like either black lives matter or cop lives matter, but the two must be mutually exclusive. That kind of attitude just fuels the fire. Can't everyone just see that everyone is hurting? Allow people their feelings.

                  I do think body cams are one good first step in creating more accountability. I just think there has to be deep cultural change as well.
                  Wife of PGY-4 (of 6), cat herder, and mom to a sassy-pants four-nager.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TulipsAndSunscreen View Post
                    I just feel like we're in such a shitty situation as a country where people of color can't feel like any traffic stop is safe and actually related to their driving AND where police officers feel like every traffic stop of a person of color could be seen as a racist act. Regardless of whether or not a crime has/has not been committed, there is so much mistrust and I don't even know where to start.
                    Very well said.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    Wife to Family Medicine attending, Mom to DS1 and DS2
                    Professional Relocation Specialist &
                    "The Official IMSN Enabler"

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                    • #11
                      So...Samuel Dubose.

                      I am sitting ten minutes away from where this occurred...I honestly don't know if I can articulate a response that captures the range of emotions that I feel about this.

                      My hometown boasts the second highest urban childhood poverty rank. There are two Americas unfolding simultaneously here within a few hundred years Much of this disparity is based on race, some of it based on socioeconomic status, some of it could be blamed on the deterioration of good middle class jobs. There are a trickle of other factors that contribute as well. I don't know. The problems feel big and intractable. I can't possibly solve them all but I can mentor a few kids. I plan to do it.

                      This week there has been a spate of articles regarding disparate treatment in school disciplinary measures based on color. Special Education is replete with disproportional representation of minority and male students. Again, it is shocking to me that people deny institutionalized racism.

                      I don't know how "black lives matter" and "blue lives matter" can be seen as diametrically opposed positions.

                      Yes, there is a horrible culturally embed norm of racism. Yes, law enforcement is a thankless, monotonous job that deals with the mentally ill, drug addicted, most at risk citizens.

                      Raising Boys author Steve Biddulph talks about how stereotypes that seemingly confer preferred status to boys are actually insidiously harmful and traps boys into painful denial of their whole selves. Raising two beautiful sons of Scandinavian descent with all the privilege of upper middle class has revealed to me that the male experience has a lot of pain and bull shit expectations too. Humanity is hard sometimes.

                      Basketball great Jeremy Lin spoke extensively about the well behaved, over achieving, intellectual Asian kid stereotype which actually translated into the belief that he and other Asians are somehow less aggressive and fierce on the court. My best guy friend in HS who is Asian reveres Jeremy Lin and calls him his man crush.

                      Finally, Roxanne Gay talks about her privilege of being an educated 1st world American and how it is still messy. (Gay self identifies as a lesbian first generation black immigrant from the Caribbean). Gay concludes that if you are human, there is pain. It is messy. We all have privilege and pain. Why do we engage in some sort of collective merit valuation of pain? Why can't we recognize it without taking offense? These bullshit internet snippets that cleve everything into binary thinking misses the big picture. I think one of our biggest problems as a society is that we lack empathy for the pain of our brothers and sisters. Acknowledging your pain does not shortchange mine. Nonetheless, trying to help you heal your pain may incidentally heal my own.

                      Anyhoo, that's my soapbox for tonight. I really want to stop reading these stories. I really want to talk about how awesome we're making it as we make the necessary and hard changes.

                      /drops mic
                      In my dreams I run with the Kenyans.

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                      • #12
                        So, is this saying that people who are labeled with stereotypes sometimes live up to them. I have seen this with young gay people who suddenly become flamboyant upon coming out as if it were expected to confirm the assurtion.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ROOT View Post
                          So, is this saying that people who are labeled with stereotypes sometimes live up to them. I have seen this with young gay people who suddenly become flamboyant upon coming out as if it were expected to confirm the assurtion.
                          I don't think that's what anyone here is saying. This is an online community for spouses of physicians - if that's you, please come on over to our introductions/welcome thread and tell us about yourself!
                          Wife of PGY-4 (of 6), cat herder, and mom to a sassy-pants four-nager.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ROOT View Post
                            So, is this saying that people who are labeled with stereotypes sometimes live up to them. I have seen this with young gay people who suddenly become flamboyant upon coming out as if it were expected to confirm the assurtion.
                            Have you been to our introduction board?
                            We'd love to "meet" you!


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            Wife to Family Medicine attending, Mom to DS1 and DS2
                            Professional Relocation Specialist &
                            "The Official IMSN Enabler"

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                            • #15
                              This is such a huge topic here right now. Another black man was recently shot and killed under dubious circumstances. Black lives matters has taken over the police precinct where the officers worked to demand justice (and a police investigation is ongoing). Last week, 5 protestors were shot by white supremacists for no reason. The police apparently didn't respond for 10 or 15 min and when they did, it was in riot gear and with mace. Thankfully, everyone who was shot is ok!!!!

                              Tensions are unbelievably high. It is lose/lose. The police swear the man (who had a long criminal history and had just assaulted someone and had interfered with EMT's and was beating on the ambulance) pulled an officer's gun. Many witnesses state the victim was handcuffed and shot in cold blood. There are videos but it's now a federal investigation and they aren't being released. No video shows the whole event.

                              One of the white officers has been in trouble before.

                              There can be no restoration of trust for anyone. I have no idea how African Americans could ever trust white police officers again. And I also understand why white officers would be afraid to respond to calls.

                              It's horrible.

                              Kris


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                              ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                              ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

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