Democratic candidates

[spotty_dog]

The other thread about the election seems to focus on the Republican candidates. Anyone out there have thoughts on the Sanders vs. Clinton decision?

I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I've loved seeing Bernie on my Facebook feed for years. Ideologically I'm excited about everything he says. But although I am progressive enough to be willing to shoulder some more tax bill to help support needed government programs…we already pay so much tax. The proposals I've seen would really put a damper on our retirement plans. We are counting on our investments to help bridge the gap between today's money and tomorrow's inflated prices. I feel good about choosing to put my money to work for business via the stock market, and to reap the rewards of that investment as the economy grows. But all of the dings against investment earnings that are in the Sanders proposals, look to me like they would make investing even less favorable than stashing money under a mattress. Not cool. He also proposes a huge new employer tax, which along with expanding the Social Security tax, looks like it would about double our self-employment tax. Ack.

So I guess I will probably caucus for Clinton. But although I'm a little jazzed to see a woman with a real shot at the presidency, and I just like the way she thinks in bullet points, I'm otherwise not entirely enthusiastic about a Clinton presidency. The importance of campaign finance reform is really being highlighted by the popularity of Trump and the attraction of his "self-funding." Yet Clinton is so entrenched in the establishment politics and big business interests, that it's a little unsettling.

Anyone else have thoughts about the Democratic candidates?

[MsSassyBaskets]

It's a tough one for me, but I think I've made up my mind. Ideologically I'm totally aligned with Sanders... According to the online quiz I'm 98% Sanders and 97% Clinton. I love his ideas, but when it comes down to it I don't trust his leadership abilities. The state of Vermont has so few people, and is so homogeneous, that I just don't think he has been truly challenged as a leader. I fear his lack of foreign policy experience, and I fear the lack of actionable details in his platform. I don't believe in his ability to put his ideas into action. I think he'd make a great VP.

I feel for Hillary. I'm angry for her. For decades now she has been playing a game that is rigged against her, and she had worked within that system to excel. Now that she's "arrived", everyone says " establishment". As though acting the way that Bernie does has ever been an option for her. She is truly the most qualified candidate, and I trust her to make solid decisions and steadily advance policy that I believe in. I may be a socialist, but I'm no idealist. I'd rather take tiny, slow steps to the left than risk everything on a wild leap that only ends up polarizing the country (more) and sets us back 8+ years.

So that's where I'm at.

[Sheherezade]

I'd rather take tiny, slow steps to the left than risk everything on a wild leap that only ends up polarizing the country (more) and sets us back 8+ years. .

This is me. I'm not passionate about Hillary, but I'll vote for her given the current field. I'd also consider voting for Kasich if he made it through the Republican convention. Total long shot. He's horrible for women though and a bit shady on the way he's handled finances here in Ohio. Both are imperfect candidates with downsides I totally acknowledge. Still, they are the best choice as I see it for leading our country.

The division and the rhetoric is very disturbing this cycle. Feels like we are on the verge of violence.

[spotty_dog]

MSB, I think you articulated exactly where I'm at. I know "establishment" is a hot button phrase right now and I didn't mean it quite that way. I mean, dude, she came up from politics in the 90s and got here? This is a rockstar trajectory of a political career! "Ugh, she's so successful as a politician" is definitely a low blow. But the fact is that it's basically a traditional political career, with a traditional donor profile supporting her campaign and speechifying, and as such she does have to tread carefully about creating policies that harm her big donors, and it's just a bit of a sour twist to the whole thing. Probably not enough to offset the downsides of a Sanders presidency though. Hm, a Clinton/Sanders ticket?! That would be interesting!

Angie, the upwelling of emotion leading to violence is growing scarier by the minute.

[rufflesanddots]

So many thoughts on this. I'll have to post tomorrow. I really appreciate everyone's responses, though.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[MsSassyBaskets]

I have to admit, I really hate how much the current race is getting to me - even just the democratic side of the race. I find the Bernie idealism is grating on me, and I get really angry about the sexism inherent in so much of the anti-Hillary rhetoric. DH and I have had some fights and I have told him his degree of feminism was not good enough. Here is someone who has fought every step of the way in her career, and 12 years ago when I was pounding the pavement for the DNC a lot of people saw her as the ideal candidate but we got f#@%ing *Kerry* instead. And now that her time has come, everyone says "You played the game too well. We've moved on to more exciting things." My head just explodes. I just can't even. I'm already avoiding most political news and conversation because I'm just not capable of staying cool about it.

[spotty_dog]

We spent time at the ILs this weekend, and FIL likes to keep CNN on for almost every waking hour. It was getting just pretty horrifying by the time we convinced him to shut it off. >.<

[MAPPLEBUM]

I realized a couple weeks ago I might have to take a break from Facebook. My feed is totally clogged by political posts. I can't imagine dealing with that all year. I believe I said this on the other thread. Even if I agree with Bernie on more points I still can't get over the sense that he belongs in a lecture hall, not the oval office. And yea, when people tell me they "just don't trust" Hillary my mind does go straight to gendered expectations.

[medpedspouse]

I get really angry about the sexism inherent in so much of the anti-Hillary rhetoric. DH and I have had some fights and I have told him his degree of feminism was not good enough. Here is someone who has fought every step of the way in her career, and 12 years ago when I was pounding the pavement for the DNC a lot of people saw her as the ideal candidate but we got f#@%ing *Kerry* instead. And now that her time has come, everyone says "You played the game too well. We've moved on to more exciting things." My head just explodes. I just can't even. I'm already avoiding most political news and conversation because I'm just not capable of staying cool about it.

ITA AND even wonder at myself at times. Am I falling prey for what society deems appropriate for males vs females? For example, I cannot say that I am a fan of how she has handled the issues related to the emails, Benghazi, etc. However, I tell myself that those issues may not be that different than other issues that her male counterparts have had. Have I looked the other way at males and chalked things up as "that's just politicians"? Also, I wish I had heard more from Carly Fiorina. I do not think she was given much of a chance. As liberal as we say the media is, one would have thought she would have been afforded a place to voice her stance. I feel cheated that I was not given a chance to decide if I did not want her for president.

[gem]

I'm also in the more aligned with Sanders' vision, more likely to vote for Clinton's pragmatism camp. I wish that I were more excited about voting for our (hopefully) first woman president. I've been doing a lot of soul searching as to why I just don't like her. I have deep reservations about her morality. A lot of that is imputed from her association with her husband, and I don't know how or whether to give them the benefit of being separate creatures. But I also think it's possible her caginess can be attributed to the fact that she has had the harshest, meanest public light shined on her for so long, and has been criticized in some pretty unfair (and sexist) ways. I do think she would be the most effective of any of the candidates by a mile, and part of me is really excited to see a woman Get Things Done. So I'm planning to vote for her, though I'm a little wary.