Gay marriages

[DCJenn]

and Luanne, when we get tired of these men, we can run off together....

Jenn

[spotty_dog]

With Kris urging me not to get my feelings hurt and not to take things personally, I'm feeling like the little girl who took her toys and went home. So, this being the debate forum and us being adults, I think I'll lay things out clearly.

For the last two years I have been lonely in a state where no one sees eye to eye with me. I have acquaintances but not friends, and co-workers I can't afford to piss off, so my best friend, my spouse, serves as my sounding board for opinionated comments and such. As it turns out he agrees whole-heartedly with me on many subjects. So I don't have much practice with diplomatically couching things.

I am very much the logical detached Virgo in most such arguments, and I love a good intellectual debate when I feel that I have a position of mathematical precision in its logic. It really goes against my grain to have a purely emotional "shouting match".

I'm not emotionally invested in my opinion that having two children is the maximum that my personal ethics can justify. I hold that opinion strongly and feel that it's well-founded, but I'm not going to stone anybody who feels differently or finds that their personal ethics lead them to a different situation for their own family.

I'm not emotionally invested in my opinion that not eating meat is a very important action that I can take toward animal welfare, environmental protection, and my own health. I hold that opinion strongly; but even my own husband disagrees with me so I make him a hamburger or a chicken breast as I eat my own veggie pattie or rice.

But I am emotionally invested in my opinion that gay marriage is not only right, but that there is no reasonable way to come at the matter and still say it's wrong. Just thinking about the Marriage Act due to be voted upon today makes me want to vomit. Literally. My salivary glands are acting up as I type. If it passes, I want to leave the country; the fact that it made it to the floor of the Senate is enough to make me want to be Canadian. You chose a good topic if you wanted to provoke a good response. I thought that I did a reasonable job keeping that raw emotion behind a wall of strong logical arguments. So what hurt my feelings and offended me was that the response was not even related to my careful argument, but rather it extrapolated an entire set of disparate opinions from my use of a single word. It also offended and disappointed me that because of the controversy I inadvertently stirred up in another thread (that doesn't seem to exist any more) but that I thought I had laid to rest, my comments weren't considered valid and my statements were refuted while other posters' rephrasing of the same concept was given complete approval -- or at least not vilified.

So. I've aired my dirty laundry. This is who I am. I'm a lazy intellectual and a hippie wanna-be. I'm not taking my toys and going home, I'm removing myself from a source of temptation. "Look, Smiley, a group of women (ETA: and men, sorry fluffhead et al!) in a similar position to you, ready to discuss everything from how to live with a medical spouse to whether kids should see adult movies!" "Ah, but they have certain expectations that you don't meet, and you won't be accepted as a fellow." "Yes, it's best not to think about it too much..."

[Auspicious]

For the last two years I have been lonely in a state where no one sees eye to eye with me.

Just thinking about the Marriage Act due to be voted upon today makes me want to vomit. Literally. My salivary glands are acting up as I type. If it passes, I want to leave the country; the fact that it made it to the floor of the Senate is enough to make me want to be Canadian.

Wow. Well, your senators are both "targeted" for calls from constituents on this, so if you haven't already I'd say give them a call and let them know how you feel. (I'd leave out the vomiting Canadian part, though. ) You've got two hours till the vote, I think. Even after the vote, it couldn't hurt.

DeWine 202.224.2315
Voinivich 202.224.3353

[PrincessFiona]

Alison,

Don't feel bad....you have no idea how many times many of us have taken our ball and run home That's where the private joke about the pacifier comes in....a kind of 'if you can't take the heat I'll send you a pacifier kind of a joke between the admins' in part because...I can't take the heat (though I'm good at dishing it out!). When I get called to the carpet on things I sometimes tend to...overreact just a tad

There is no harm done as long as you know that we forgive you for taking your ball home and are just glad to see you brought it back with us to play.

As to the lonely thing...unfortunately, I have lived in the same town now for 3 years and have the exact same feelings. I don't think I've ever been this lonely and disheartened in my life I don't see eye-to-eye with almost anyone here politically, socially, etc..and I feel like an utter outcast.

So....there's my dirty laundry....

Now...no more taking things personally!

kris

Vote Update

Thankfully, the Senate killed the proposed Constitutional amendment today--abetted by two Republicans I really like: John McCain and Ben Nighthorse Cambell. Also, just checked the live vote on MSNBC as to whether there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment at all: 29% say Yes, 71% say No, which means there may still be hope for this country after all.

Of all the things I think might merit a Constitutional amendment, this issue isn't one of them, and it seems that some other people agree.

[Sheherezade]

Very late jumping in on this one......

I have to agree that despite any ill feelings towards homosexual couples (at least that I'll admit to myself) I was initially uncomfortable with the term "marriage" being used for gay civil unions. I've been talking and reading about this a lot having just moved from MA. My area was so liberal that I haven't met or heard from one person opposed to gay marriage. I guess I'm lucky; I probably would be upset too if I was in an area where this discrimination against gay couples was widely supported. Some interesting things that came up in the MA area after gay marriage became legal:

1) Companies that granted health benefits to domestic partners stopped granting them unless the couple was married. I don't know if this continued or became widespread. (So now you have to be married to get the benefits for your live in partner?)

2) Adoption through China was reported as affected because China doesn't officially allow adoption by gay partners. Gay couples got around this by being single and just "roomates" when they adopted through China. I don't know how this played out either. Do you have to "admit" you are married to other countries if you are adopting internationally and if so how do their standards about homosexuality affect the system?

It will be interesting to see what ripple effects occur if this becomes nationwide. I think the topic is fascinating though, because it brings up interesting biological and philosophical questions for me. It has me wondering if our marriage system will always remain based on sexual attraction--particularly in a world where reproduction is so readily manipulated and premarital/extramarital sex is accepted. I am not gay, but I could easily see getting along better with a female lifetime partner simply because women understand one another very well and often share similar life experience and values. If you took sex out of the equation, what happens to marriage? I honestly don't know what I think but it makes me wonder where we will be with this in 200 years. Lots of animals have different social structures (deer herds, lion prides) outside of the "mate for life" structure. I wonder if we are headed in a different direction and this isn't a step along the way.....

Now I have revealed myself as completely insane

Angie

I went to a lesbian wedding about 2 months ago

The wedding was in Toronto.
A girl I grew up with informed us around highschool that she was gay. We've all remained friends since grade school.

It was a normal wedding by all accounts except for it was 2 brides. They both wore white suits.

To each their own I say. 8)

This isn't much of a debate! It's more of a lynching of the one poster who has stated her opinion (and rather valiently given the hateful verbal beating she is receiving) to the contrary of some rather sarcastic and mean-spirited posters. That's not debate. That's a mob mentality.

[PrincessFiona]

This isn't much of a debate! It's more of a lynching of the one poster who has stated her opinion (and rather valiently given the hateful verbal beating she is receiving) to the contrary of some rather sarcastic and mean-spirited posters. That's not debate. That's a mob mentality.

we are the mob

[Meenah]

Is that Jennifer?