What should happen to these people

That is just so, so sad and so senseless.

I can't be unemotional or objective about this. So, all I will say is, I think that punishments for child abuse always fall far, far short of what should happen. (At least in the state I lived in prior, I thought the sentences were ridiculously short. Shorter than if an adult had done that to another adult).

[Auspicious]

Well if the question were what does the guy deserve, I would say he deserves to be beaten within an inch of his life every day well into old age. And then I would say stop only because it's wrong to beat the aged.

But since we don't do things that way I would say life without possibility of parole.

I'm anti-death penalty (surprise!) not because criminals don't deserve it but because in principle we treat people according to who we are, not according to who they are. It's not about what it says about the criminal or the crime, it's about what it says about us. And plenty of countries and states within this country get by just fine without it.

I know that people will say or think that I only feel this way because I don't have children, and people are free to say or think that if they would like, of course. But I've considered that and I don't think so.

It's very very tough. Issues of life and death are the toughest we face, I think.

[Auspicious]

Cross-posted with Nellie.

[Auspicious]

I agree that was a really interesting aspect of this story--that this woman chose to be with this guy who had a history of abuse. There's an article in Time magazine this week (which I haven't read yet) about initiatives to encourage the uber-poor to marry. I honestly don't know what to think about that yet. On the one hand I'm pretty pro-marriage (it's not best for everyone but it's best for the vast majority of people and is good for society) but on the other hand I think you see lots of examples like this where the "you HAVE to have a man" mentality leads people to make terrible, terrible choices. I don't know which way these people should be encouraged.

[SueC]

I think they should both go to jail. Even if the mom didn't lay a hand on him, she left her baby in the care of a known abuser and it sounds like the environment itself was hazardous regardless of what the bf did. When did some moms lose their instinct to protect their babies at all costs?

[DCJenn]

I think the bigger issue is the cycle of abuse. Chances are the abuser was abused and the mom was abused and the abuser beat the mom, the child, and no doubt the dogs too.

I'm not sure that the instinct to protect her children was gone, as much as it was probably beaten out of her. Abusers can be really manipulative charmers and if you've spent your whole life abused, it's like candy to a baby- and they get caught in a cycle they can't break free from. Not to mention that economically, she probably couldn't afford to leave him. Or if she supported him- he wouldn't allow her to leave him.

I'm not saying that these people don't deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison, because they do. Sadly though, it may be the first time that she gets three meals a day and clean clothes and a clean room.

Abuse is a vicious, nasty, hidden part of society. (there are probably people here who have suffered or are currently suffering) The entire story is just tragic.

Jenn

[SueC]

Well, if the abuser was also abusing the mother that is one thing, and I'd be curious to find out if that was the case in this situation. It seems like every time I turn the news on there is yet another story of some kid dieing at the hands of their mother's boyfriend. I am sensitive to the plight of the battered woman (I volunteered at a crisis hotline for domestic violence and used to do activities with kids at a battered women's shelter--it's heartbreaking, those were some of the most aggressive kids I've ever seen and I shudder to think about what they will be like as adults), but I don't know that all of these cases (when the bf is beating the crap out of the kids) fall into that category. I'd love to see some statistics on that.

[BonBon]

Well if the question were what does the guy deserve, I would say he deserves to be beaten within an inch of his life every day well into old age. And then I would say stop only because it's wrong to beat the aged.

But since we don't do things that way I would say life without possibility of parole.

That's what I think! Except I would say that since it's wrong to beat a defenseless child, and that's exactly what he did, then it's okay to beat him until he breathes his last breath.

I'm also anti-death penalty. I read about far too many innocent people being released from prison due to re-examination of evidence using current forensic techniques.

[Auspicious]

Well if the question were what does the guy deserve, I would say he deserves to be beaten within an inch of his life every day well into old age. And then I would say stop only because it's wrong to beat the aged.

But since we don't do things that way I would say life without possibility of parole.

That's what I think! Except I would say that since it's wrong to beat a defenseless child, and that's exactly what he did, then it's okay to beat him until he breathes his last breath.

Except my point is that people say we have to use the death penalty because these criminals deserve the worst possible punishment--but death is not the worst possible punishment. Torture is. You can do lots of things to people to make death seem like a welcome relief. So we're already refraining from the worst possible punishment, and we're already not doing an eye for an eye. If we can refrain from those things for the sake of our own humanity, then it would be a good idea refrain from the death penalty as well.

[Auspicious]

(I don't mean to sound like I'm disagreeing even with people who agree with me now--*insert self-directed eye roll here*--but like I've said, I think sometimes working out the nuances of these things is even more interesting than the black/white discussions.)