Prayer in Schools...

[PrincessFiona]

Where do you guys stand on the idea of separation of church/state and prayer in the schools...or just the mention of 'god' in the schools.

I have to say that I don't really want prayer in the schools but I'm not opposed to the "one nation, under God" in the Pledege of Allegiance.

kris

[Meenah]

I support separation of church and state. I'm not personally offended and never even think about it (Pledge of Allegience) but if it is offensive to some then leave it out.
Luanne

[Rapunzel]

I share your opinion, Kris.

I need to change my signature line to add the disclaimers discussed in the other forum.

We pray in our house. BUT I am absolutely opposed to my daughter being led in prayer in a *public* school environment. She does pray before meals at her current preschool but since that is similar to what we do at home, I'm totally fine with it. They say the same prayer everytime. (Though it is in Hebrew so I don't really know exactly what they are saying! ). It's a school with a religious affiliation and so everyone (parents, teachers, administration) is pretty much on the same page. I think that makes a big difference. If I don't agree with the theology of a private school, I can certainly find a different environment for her.

I'm OK with the pledge one way or another. I only recall saying it in early elementary.

[HeartRN]

I like the idea of having "moments of silence" (before games, following a tragedy,etc). It doesn't have to be called "prayer" to have similar meaning for people, and I guess it is more *gulp* "politically correct" (sorry, I just can't stand that term!)

As far as the Pledge goes, don't say "god" if you don't want to. But I definitely think kids should still say it in the morning before class starts (in grade school) every day. I truly believe this had a profound impact on building my patriotism. One of my grade school years also required us to sing "My Country Tis of Thee" after saying the Pledge.

[SueC]

I agree with most everybody else. My kids pray in preschool, but it is a church-affiliated mother's day out so I expect that. In public school, I don't think it is necessary. I like whoever mentioned the moment of silence thing--seems like the most non-offensive option.
I think the pledge should be said daily in at least the lower grades and if somebody is particularly offended by "under God" that person should just omit that part.

But what does a moment of silence accomplish? If I want my child to pray or have a moment of silence, or have a moment of rambunctious glee, I will take care of that at home. If I think it really needs to happen in an educational environment, I'll find a school that does that. Or, if it fits with my beliefs at a private program I have selected, I'll support it.

In an unusual circumstance, such as a national or local tragedy or a death at the school, maybe it makes sense and is a way of acknowledging what is happening in a student's world.

But before a game? I just don't get why you need to pray, or be silent, or do anything besides huddle with your team before a sporting event. If it's really that nerve wracking, a player can privately pray, think, mumble whatever works for them in similar stressful situations.
(Sorry, Marla, but this just hits a nerve. I've never understood the whole football prayer connection. It seems a showy outward display to me. )

[mommax3]

I agree with all of you.

Sally

[SueC]

But what does a moment of silence accomplish? If I want my child to pray or have a moment of silence, or have a moment of rambunctious glee, I will take care of that at home. If I think it really needs to happen in an educational environment, I'll find a school that does that. Or, if it fits with my beliefs at a private program I have selected, I'll support it.

In an unusual circumstance, such as a national or local tragedy or a death at the school, maybe it makes sense and is a way of acknowledging what is happening in a student's world.

But before a game? I just don't get why you need to pray, or be silent, or do anything besides huddle with your team before a sporting event. If it's really that nerve wracking, a player can privately pray, think, mumble whatever works for them in similar stressful situations.
(Sorry, Marla, but this just hits a nerve. I've never understood the whole football prayer connection. It seems a showy outward display to me. )

Has it actually come to that? I was commenting on the moment of silence as if it were being used after a tragedy (death of a student, national incident such as 9/11, etc.). Do schools have moments of silence during football games? If so, I don't really think that is necessary, either.

[PrincessFiona]

I agree with all of you.

Sally

Way to avoid controversy! :>

kris

[mommax3]

Way to avoid controversy!

I was just pleased that I did agree!

I think that making an issue of prayer in schools is a way to be "showy" with religion and is inappropriate, imo.

When I was in school, I could (and did!) pray whenever the heck I wanted, which is the whole point of prayer, right? I didn't need someone to give me a moment and I certainly wouldn't have wanted a prescribed prayer that would have been stripped of anything meaningful by the PC police.

In my opinion, the prayer before a football game is more a matter of traditon than religious fervor. And I say that having observed the phenomenon here in TX as a definite outsider, because the ship had sailed on this issue long ago in IN, where I grew up, way before my time.

Sally

[BonBon]

Personally,
No prayer in schools(though I have no problem if kids want to pray VOLUNTARILY)
No "under god" in the pledge
No 'in god we trust" on money

That's a surprise coming from me, eh?

[twinsmom]

Dare I even start??? (coming from the conservative corner...)

DH and I had a very interesting conversation when we were visiting all of the sites in DC this summer on his break - we started to notice that all of the founding fathers had a profound respect and acknowledgment of the hand of God in their being able to form this incredible nation. In many quotes from their different monuments, the praise and acknowledement of our dependence upon God as a nation is very much integrated into some of their speeches (although those particular parts are conveniently left out now a days when those men are quoted).

To me, separation of church and state does not mean the absolving of church from state. To make it a 'sin' to even mention God in a school system is very sad. I'm not saying we have to shove each persons specific beliefs down each others throats - all that I'm saying is that I think it is insane that we spend so much effort, time, and money - even going through the court system - just because we lack enough respect to let our freedom of religion be seen - yes, even in the school system.

Okay - I just had a mini crisis with the kids - locking their bedroom door, with NO key to open it, and no way to break in... so I'll have to come back to this when things calm down a bit...

Bring on the battles ... I'll run back to my conservative corner for the time being... :!

Jen B.

[spotty_dog]

Jen, I can't quite tell what you're responding to. Is it other posts in this thread? Something you see in your local school system?

Personally, I'm pretty well in agreement with Dagny about what is and isn't appropriate in school. I'm not sure about the currency though.

I quit saying the "under God" bit when I was 10, with a strong sense of betrayal at having been made to say the words without the meaning behind them. I wanted the name of God to be a powerful invocation, not just another mumble mindlessly mouthed. And it didn't fit for me. I was prouder than ever to say the Pledge with fervor after I learned what it really meant; but I never said "under God" with it again. It was to flag and country I was pledging my allegiance -- whether that country was under God or not didn't really enter into it.

[DCJenn]

Well, the "Under God" part is actually a newish additon to the pledge- I think it was Eisenhower and it was during the Cold War and the point was to differentiate "us" from "them".

Having grown up in DC with a hugely diverse school system, there pretty much wasn't any kind of anything related to religion. (which was fine with me, since my mother is really nutty about not having others religious viewpoints foisted upon anyone else!) We had kids fasting during Ramadan, taking off school for the Jewish High Holy days, Christians taking off Easter, you name it. But- it was pretty much expected that religion stayed at home.

Of course, in a school that diverse, there was no showy religious displays by anyone. There was a club of some sort of Christian group that met after school, but it was one of those deals where they had to agree to meet the same standards of acceptance that the other after school clubs had.

Personally, my after school club was General Hospital with the girls and my church going pretty much ended at age 10.

My mother thinks she's a druid (and she's mostly not even kidding) and when you grow up with that...you get a little skewed in some areas... I am a fervent Ethical Humanist and have all intention of making sure that my kid is raised to be an ethical human and an Ethical Humanist, too.

Jenn