Violence from Fans in sports

[Meenah]

Did anyone see the game between Indiana and Detroit? How crazy was that (I didn't watch the game but saw it on the news). Do you think selling alcohol at games is the problem. I remember going to games and drinking one maybe two beers, but never drinking into oblivion. The Philadelphia Eagles actually had a police station set up in the stadium a couple of years ago, I don't know if they still do.
Luanne

[migirl]

Re: Violence from Fans in sports

Do you think selling alcohol at games is the problem.

In this particular situation, no, I don't think that alcohol was the problem. Ron Artest was the problem and deserves to be banned from the league for life. He's had a history of seemingly unstable and unbalanced behavior, it's just never escalated to this point before. The brawl essentially started when a fan (albeit, wrongly) threw a cup of beer at him and Artest charged into the stands and started indiscriminately hitting innocent bystanders. [Disclaimer: I've lived in the Detroit area for almost 10 years now, and feel very defensive of everyone blaming the Detroit fans.] Artest could have just ignored the cup that was thrown at him, the fan would have probably just been thrown out of the game, and the game would have gone on. Instead he had to act like a complete animal and start punching and hitting anyone in his way.

If the question is "should they stop selling alcohol at sporting events?", then I say no. I think it's generally a small minority who sometimes can't handle their alcohol; the rest of the people who are behaving and drinking responsibly shouldn't be punished for that.

[PrincessFiona]

I saw the replays of the violence (about 20 times) this morning on CNN It looked to me like a fan threw a cup of water/beer or something which was wrong...but that the basketball players went absolutely nuts.

I think the throwing of food/drink at the end when they were going into the dressing room was in response to the violent attacks that the basketball players made.

Yah, it was dumb that the guy threw his drink (and he should have been removed by security) but the way that these 'professional' players responded would have had me throwing my beer too.

kris

[DCJenn]

There were some great editorials today in the Washington Post sports section, mostly about how unrealistic professional sports players are- and how the League owners are as much a problem as the players themselves. They were saying that the owners coddle the players, get them off from minor infractions and these guys start to believe that they can do no wrong.

And the money- It truly sickens me that we can pay professional athletes millions of dollars and then there's some woman in a suburb of DC who was turned away from the only homeless shelter in her area- and ended up locking her kids in a storage unit while she went to work at a convenience store. I think we need to really examine our cultural priorities.

Do I think drinking is a problem? It can be- and fans can be horrific, too. I think the sense of entitlement extends to the fans as well- the "I just paid $100 bucks each for these seats and if I want to yell like an idiot and throw stuff- then I can and I will."

I think it's utterly ridiculous that the NHL is striking, that Latrell Sprewell was publicly complaining that he couldn't feed his family on 14 MILLION dollars a year (Dear God, there are entire countries that could use that money to feed their entire populations....), meanwhile, the income generated by the teams goes not to the communities, but to the owners and the players- and they usually get humongous tax breaks, too.

(This is a hot topic in DC right now, because of our newly minted baseball team- and the debate is who will pay for the stadium- and the Mayor says that DC will- there are pluses and minuses to either side, too)

Jenn

I feel the same, that alcohol isn't the blame here. It may have been involved but is not the TOTAL problem in that situation.
The problem is there is no sportsmanship in todays "professional" sports. Now, there are still athletes that are players and true sportsmen/women, but the focus is not on the sport as much as it is on the entertainment of the event. This has even worked its way into the college level, where athletes aren't paid ridiculous seven, eight or nine figure salaries. This results in players/athletes feeling that because they are "Mr $14 Million/year" and they aren't getting the repect they deserve then they will take matters into their own hands. At a sporting event, the MOB mentality is only a shove or a crude word away....for teams or fans.
In this situation, Ron Artest actually attacked a guy who was still holding a cup. The Players Assoc, has already filed an appeal and he will be playing games later in the year, because if he is a thug or a guy next door, he bring people to the games....and we all know that money is the blame.

[PrincessFiona]

I think it's utterly ridiculous that the NHL is striking, that Latrell Sprewell was publicly complaining that he couldn't feed his family on 14 MILLION dollars a year.

WHAT? You are KIDDING me?

Salaries for athletes are truly outrageous....as they are for the hollywood 'elite'. I understand the idea that they are only able to work a few years and so they have to earn more...but 14 million a freakin' year and he can't raise his family on that?

geeeesh

I agree that salaries are ridiculous, and are what cause a lot of problems. And it has worked its way into college sports. Having graduated not too long ago, I still get angry about that. Sure they don't get the huge salaries, but they do get tuition, food, books, clothes, tutors, free exotic spring break trips to places like Hawaii, spending money on those trips (for only food, of course ), answer keys, and leniency. I have seen non-athletes get expelled from school for drug possession while the athletes found with the same drug have to sit out for a game or two. Of course I'm not saying this applies to every college athlete, but it does happen. Its no wonder why some of the pros think they are above everything.


I guess I'm still a little more than bitter!!

[SuzySunshine]

I agree that there needs to be more sportsmanship in professional sports, basketball seems to be the worst. The fans shouldn't have started it but the athletes never should have left the bench or the court. I just can't help but think that most professional players are greedy, greedy, greedy - I mean look at the NHL strike. But as long as people pay for the tickets and buy the concessions nothing will change and now, unfortunately, it is trickling more and more into the college ranks.

[Phoebe]

I think in this situation besides player responsibility of a stupid decision of going in the stands, lack of security is the problem! The Palace should have more security on the floor for the end of the game. We had Pacer tickets last year and we have attended some Colts games this year. They have uniformed and nonuniformed security on the court and on the field at all times. Fans are not allowed on the court or on the field. Yeah so some stupid guy through a cup of beer on a hot-headed basketball player. He made a stupid decision to go after the person. Other players were dumb in getting involved too. Security wenting running away, they didn't have enough people to break up the brawl. Fans assaulted the players too. Who the heck threw a chair? Artest is to blame for going in the stands, the facility should have been had more manpower there to help control the situation.

Artest is losing 5 million dollars this season and possibly more when lawsuits are filed. That is a costly decision he made.

Jennifer

[Rapunzel]

Artest was completely wrong to go after the guy who threw his drink on him (and he did end up pummeling the WRONG guy ). But, the behavior of the fans was abominable. Watching the fans "rush" players and try to grab them and deck them was just as horrible as the player who deliberately ran into the stands and started the brawl. It was insane that so many fans then ran onto the court - many of them attacking players. Some of the players that werer suspended went into the stands to remove other players and were simply defending themselves from attacking fans that entered the court to throw a few punches. Despicable behavior - by some of the players and a bunch of the "fans".

I'll bet Artest exhibited his bad behavior on purpose - he did want to get out of playing a number of games in order to "promote" his new rap album. Being suspended in order to do so would've given him additional popularity among rap fans that find bad behavior to be a hallmark of "legitimacy" among rappers. I think Artest made a semi-calculated move and it got waaaaaay out of hand because of the out-of-control fans that seem to be increasingly common at sports games around the world. Did alcohol play a part? I would be surprised if it didn't. The effects of alcohol are to remove a person's ability to make good judgements. I'll bet everyone of the fans that attacked the players was under the influence to a certain extent.

My sister just called to see if she could take my son to a Mavericks game in December. I have to say I honestly hesitated giving my consent based ENTIRELY on the situations that have been occuring in professional sports games. I am MUCH more concerned with my son seeing bad behavior from the fans and/or being hurt by violent fans than that my son will be attacked by a player. I gave my consent, but both of my large, non-drinking brothers will be accompanying my sister and my son to the game....

[Rapunzel]

Oh yeah - forgot to agree that the Palace's security STUNK! Those people should all be fired - they just stood around or seemed like chicken with their heads cut off. Ridiculous. At the very least these woefully wimpy security people needed to be identifying and detaining the fans that had exhibited violence and were trying to leave the stadium.

And, what really burns me is that the police didn't arrest everyone of the "fans" that entered the court when they arrived.

Just an awful situation where "doing the right thing" fell by the wayside on almost everyone's part.

I agree with Rapunzel in that Artest's actions were somewhat planned. This is all slightly reminiscent of Janet Jackson's boob being exposed right around the same time her album was released. The more everyone talkes about Artest, the better his rap album will do, I'm sure.

[Rapunzel]

I found this article today by an Associated Press writer:

http://www.comcast.net/News/OTHERSPORTS ... 03d45.html

Player-Fan Violence Is Nothing New

Sun Nov 21, 3:03 PM

By CHRIS LEHOURITES, AP Sports Writer

- The mayhem at the Indiana Pacers-Detroit Pistons game was one of the worst brawls in U.S. sports history, but confrontations involving players and fans are not uncommon elsewhere in the world and often end with far more dire consequences.

One of the most notorious acts came in 1993 with the stabbing of Monica Seles in Hamburg, Germany. Seles, ranked No. 1 at the time, was stabbed in the back on the court by an obsessed fan of Steffi Graf, a burst of violence that underlined the vulnerability of pro athletes.

Soccer has been at the center of much of the violence, often the work of roving, hardcore fans known as hooligans.

Last week, racist fans attacked Bastia's black players after a French league game against Saint-Etienne. In Peru last year, fans surged on the field and chased and beat players after a disputed call, leaving 20 people wounded, including 13 players.

A decade ago in England, Manchester United's Eric Cantona jumped kung-fu style into the crowd and kicked a Crystal Palace fan in the chest for taunting him. The Frenchman initially received a two-week jail sentence for assault but that was changed on appeal to 120 hours of community service. Cantona was banned from playing for eight months and fined $45,000 while the fan was fined $750.

At the NBA brawl Friday night, fans and players threw punches while spectators tossed a chair and beer as chaos engulfed courtside at the arena in Auburn Hills, Mich. Four players _ Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, Stephen Jackson and Ben Wallace _ were suspended indefinitely by the NBA for a fight commissioner David Stern called "shocking, repulsive and inexcusable."

The violence is hardly limited to soccer:

_In 2002, a Canadian Football League fan attacked B.C. Lions cornerback Eric Carter during a game in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and was promptly kicked and beaten by players.

_In 2002, 10 hooligans attacked a bus carrying a Greek basketball team. Five players and one team assistant were injured.

_In 2003, a spectator attacked South African player Louis Koen during a Rugby World Cup game in Brisbane, Australia. Koen was not injured, but the fan apparently was knocked out when hit in the head by a kick from the player.

Coaches and referees have been the target of violent fans.

During an Israeli league soccer game this year, a disgruntled Bnei Yehuda fan kicked Maccabi Petach Tikvah coach Guy Luzon in the face. Luzon was shaken but not badly hurt.

In September, Swedish soccer referee Anders Frisk was hit by an object thrown by an AS Roma fan, forcing him to abandon the European Champions League game. Dynamo Kiev was later awarded a 3-0 forfeit victory.

On Sunday, a game turned violent in Podgorica, Serbia-Montenegro, although the players had no part in it. At least 25 people were injured when fans rioted at a stadium after a tear gas canister exploded before a first division game. The injured were treated at a hospital for tear gas inhalation, broken arms and legs and other injuries, doctors said. Two ambulances were demolished.

Stadium tragedies have had deadly outcomes. They often are the result of panic, but many are caused by battling fans.

The Liverpool and Juventus soccer teams were at the center of one of the worst disasters in Europe in 1985 when 39 people were killed at the European Champions Cup final in Brussels, Belgium, after a wall separating fans collapsed.

In 2001, at least 123 people died in Accra, Ghana, in a stampede after police fired tear gas into the stands in response to fans who threw bottles and chairs on the field. Forty-three people were killed and 155 injured earlier that year in Johannesburg, South Africa, when fans tried to push into an overcrowded stadium.

And last month, four people were killed and eight others injured during a stampede at the end of a World Cup qualifying game in Lome, Togo.

[Phoebe]

I agree with Rapunzel on this one. Calculated move most likely. He is already appearing around town plugging his CD. He 15 minutes of fame might sell more albums. How ridiculous!

Jennifer

[Flynn]

I agree with Rapunzel on this one too.

I think the players and the fans are equally to blame.

Moreover, I think players like Sprewell and Artest are in the minority and society dislikes athletes in large part to a minority of idiot players who speak their mind and are greedy and not too bright.

I LOVE sports and basketball has been my favorite for years however I must say I like the college game more than the NBA these days. I miss Larry, Magic, and Michael. I miss the 80s and 90s when the game was a bit more about basketball and a lot less about the behavior off the court -- or in this case, in the arena!