Solving the education crisis in America

That would be interesting to see. There was quite a bit of info on the website that Kris posted (see above) but I was rushing through it. Don't know if that would be there. It would be much easier to look into if the high-ranking countries used the same cirriculum nation-wide. There is probably a fair amount of variation across the US (with a common theme of being not so great).

Another thought on this....knowing very, very little about math cirriculum. I wonder what the stated goals of much of US math cirricula are? Is it a goal for that year? Or a three year span (ex: early primary, etc)? Or is it foundations for algebra, geometry, etc with a clear connection to those goals?

[HeartRN]

Just another question/thought that perhaps the teachers here might be able to address...according to my SIL (5th grade teacher in public school in IL), private schools have no "standards" as far as ensuring that the teachers there are certified. She was already telling us how we should be "very careful" in considering sending our daughter to a private school when she's of age. Is this "certification" even important or does it even exist? Just curious.....

That's true as far as I know and an IMPORTANT question to ask principals or admissions people.

Private schools can do what they want basically. Example: a school where my friend teaches science (it's knows as a great school and I agree on most levels) had one English class that needed to be taught (not a full or even a half schedule). Instead of doing a lengthy hiring process AND paying someone to teach it with the credentials, the VP was asked to do it and received a stipend. The VP has no English major, minor, OR certificate with the state and in a public school this would be illegal. It was an "easy fix" for the principal but a horrible decision for the students.

A certification is very important. Teaching is not a natural gig for most people and the certification says "I not only know the topic and the content, I know how to deliver it in a way to "connect" with my students."

[Rapunzel]

A certification is very important. Teaching is not a natural gig for most people and the certification says "I not only know the topic and the content, I know how to deliver it in a way to "connect" with my students."

Amazingly enough I have managed to teach all of my children every subject under the rainbow to the point that they are, each and every one, a full year ahead of their age-group peers.

Guess what? No teacher certification.

The really funny part for me in this is the number of parents I know who have all done the same thing - sans a teaching certificate. in fact, every single parent I personally know that has decided to teach without a teaching certificate has had outstanding results. Teaching is actually quite easy. Anyone who has worked with their children on learning to sing the alphabet, count their Cheerios, or even tie their shoes knows it isn't as convoluted and difficult as those who make money off of teaching like to proclaim. It takes character traits such as dedication and intelligence but a teaching certificate isn't a very good indication of either.

Soooo.... A teaching certificate is probably important just as a "line" that has to be drawn as to if a government school will hire an individual or not but otherwise it's really an unnecessary accessory as to determining whether a person can actually teach a particular subject (or teach at all for that matter). It may work as Guest says in theory, but having known the reality now, it's not an indication that someone can or should teach.

Jennifer

[PrincessFiona]

Teaching is actually quite easy. .

I think teaching is pretty hard....even teaching my kids...

I don't have an educational background though.

[Rapunzel]

Teaching is actually quite easy. .

I think teaching is pretty hard....even teaching my kids...

I don't have an educational background though.

Kris, you've taught your children an incredible amount before they ever went off to school.

There is this concept of "TEACHING" as some ephereal state of mind that someone may achieve only with a great deal of training and effort.

Well, the reality is that we are constantly and even inadvertantly teaching throughout our day - everyday. When we set about to teach towards a specific goal it can include challenges. But, that means the GOAL was a difficult one - teaching in and of itself is NOT difficult.

I think it would be a good exercise for everyone who is a parent to sit down and list all of the things they have taught their children. Take walking for example. Well, you may say, it is normal for a child to walk. Yes, it is - learning to do new things and develop more skills is a normal trait in all normal children. But, chances are good that you encouraged your child to take those steps. You even demonstrated continually how to walk yourself - all the time! You helped your child learn the skill of walking!

The same can be said of every other skill a child learns - from speaking correctly (grammatically) to learning to read to learning to multiply. Teaching is nothing more than encouragement in a certain direction and example. Sometimes intense encouragement and example are needed along with patience. But, teaching is a normal, everyday part of life.

Jennifer

I agree that parents are "teachers", but when it comes time for my child to learn Trig, I'd rather leave it up to a professional. I think teaching is one of the hardest, and most thankless, jobs there is.

[PrincessFiona]

Jenn, you are probably a natural teacher...I have to work at it.

I have become more and more overwhelmed with the teaching of diff. content areas to my children. Observing at the Montessori has been absolutely mind-boggling (and I don't know why the public schools can't learn something from this approach). It's one thing to teach your child 2+2, and that's what I did withy my two oldest...the basics at home with worksheets and counting beads...but at the same time, there are methods (that I'm neither good at nor familiar with) for getting them to learn fundamental concepts in geometry and numbers that are beyond the average curriculums. There are ways of teaching children to group and recognize patterns in numbers that you can't find in the average textbook/worksheet. These kids are already learning about geometric shapes, areas, faces of three-dimensional shapes etc all in fun and entertaining (even for me) ways. Observing there has made me realize that there is a lot more to it than what I thought.

[Flynn]

oops -- I was the one who wrote about teaching certificates being important. I was the "guest" this recent thread is commenting on....

I was checking both email and this site quickly, as my sister stopped by and offered me 30 minutes to myself while she played with my kids! It wasn't my intention to post as a "guest." Sorry!


The question had to do with what a "teaching certificate" is and why some people think it's important. The question also asked if private schools are required to hire people to teach with such a certificate and as far as I know they are not required but most do have certified teachers. I do not see how that question relates to home schooling at all.

Why some people find a teaching certificate important to teach their children in a classroom:

** There is a difference between teaching your own children and teaching someone else's.
** There is a difference between teaching a couple of children (less than 5 or 6) and teaching a larger group.
** There is a difference between teaching one child in a certain grade/age verses many children who most likely have different skills and abilities.
** "Special" kids need teachers with different skills.
** In order to receive a teaching certificate you must be finger printed, they are run through the government, and an past crimes may hinder you becoming certified.
** There are methods of delivery you are taught in such certification programs to better engage your class and help the content to register.

If I am in fact paying for school either for a private institution or through my taxes I want someone teaching my kids who have ample education and all states require public schools to hire teachers who are "certified" in addition to having degrees in their content areas. It varies from state to state but that's the cliff note version. I am paying a "professional" so there are yardsticks to measure what a professional is in education such as a certification.

Is parenting teaching? Of course!!!! Absolutely!!! If you home school your kids are you unqualified if you don't have a teaching certificate? NO! Home schooling is a totally different topic.

If you are looking for a school for your children, ask about the certification/education of all the teachers. Whether you agree with me or not, it's valuable information to have and you deserve to know who is teaching your child.

As for teaching being "easy." I can only smirk. I adore teaching my children anything and they eat it up! I have a connection with them I will never have with students in a classroom. Educating a teenager with a difficult home life who is not your child how literature is important to their school career is anything but "easy." Rewarding? It can be, but it takes energy, dedication, and the desire to help people who don't want to be helped.

All forms of teaching are difficult and to say one form is "easy" -- well, let's just say we'll agree to disagree.

[mommax3]

I am teaching 3rd grade social studies in my kids' private school, and I was not an elementary education major. However, since I was a music education major and took the general classes that every education major takes, I am qualified, according to the private school principal who hired me. And although I have never taught in an elementary classroom, I am doing quite a good job, if I do say so myself! I don't mind asking for help or looking stuff up on the internet when I am faced with a problem, either. I would not feel qualified to teach all elementary subjects to a class full of children though.....no WAY am I qualified to do that.

If you define teaching as setting a good example and encouraging children to do as you do, then I guess it could be construed as being easy.....although the patience part sure doesn't come easily to me!!! However, when you are dealing with your own children, you have the advantage of knowing all of their prior experiences and thus have reference points that you can use to teach them further skills. You also probably have the advantage of genetics, meaning that chances are, your kids have some of the same challenges/strengths that you/your spouse have.....and you, as the teacher, are familiar with those challenges/strengths and how to deal with them since you have either lived with them your whole life, or are married to someone who has.

One thing I did learn in my education classes is that most people who decide on education as a career are those who enjoyed the educational process when they were students....they were compliant and well-prepared due to the backgrounds their parents gave them. It is EASY to teach kids like that. It is pretty damn hard to teach kids who come to school hungry, don't speak English at home, or have a learning disability or emotional handicap that has not been identified. It is almost impossible to teach kids whose parents don't value the educational process or scholastic achievement, because kids will always value their parents' opinions more than their teachers'. And when you get 25 kids in a classroom, you are likely to have students from all of the groups described above and then some......it is VERY DIFFICULT. A degree in education doesn't guarantee that a person is an excellent teacher, but it does let you know that they have passed classes in which crucial information about normal and abnormal child development has been presented, as well as information about how to communicate information to students in a variety of ways in order to reach everyone. (These are classes that college professors never have to take, btw, so that is why a professor can be brilliant in a particular subject, yet be horrible at teaching it.) Whether a teacher retains this information and decides to use it is mostly up to that teacher.

As far as private schools go, you should ask LOTS of questions before you choose one. A private school isn't automatically better than a public school, and many times it may be worse. Ask specific questions and talk to parents who have their kids there already. They will be able to give you their opinion, which you can add to the spiel you will get from the principal. Ask to observe a class....all the private schools I have been involved with have been extremely open to this. If you ask to see test scores, ask to see a certain class' scores (with the kids' names blacked out) for several years in a row.....high scores should not fall from year to year, and low scores should come up gradually. If the class has a bad teacher in a certain subject during a certain year, most of the test scores in that subject will fall that year (or the year after, if the school tests in the fall). Ask about the qualifications of the teachers, and if there is anything that raises a red flag with you, ask about it. If a teacher doesn't have traditional qualifications, ask what strengths they bring to the classroom.

Just some thoughts....

Sally

I attended a private school for a few years and several of my teachers were not certified teachers. Typically, this was for foreign language classes. Overall, it was a good experience and I loved hearing about that person's experience in another country. I don't think the language education was the best, but for the grade level I was in, I think it was fine. There was one instance of a teacher not meshing well with the class or the school (can't remember if he was certified or not) and the school dismissed him after a few months.

I agree with Flynn, that if you decide to send your kids to private school you should ask about their requirements for employment in addition to background and criminal checks. There are regional and national acreditation organizations that a school might have membership in -- I'd bet that those include teacher training or certification requirements.

Kris, I agree with you that teaching is something that comes naturally for some people and not for others. I don't have kids, but I know I am not a natural teacher-- not even to train people at work. BF, on the other hand, seems to have an aptitude for explaining things and tailoring a lesson for a specific audience. He's great with his med students.

I believe it's a skill that doesn't have much to do with knowing particular methods or schools of teaching. My parents, who have a very limited formal education and aren't native English speakers, taught me an incredible amount before I started pre-school. I'd like to think I could do the same for my children, but I honestly don't know if I could.

Flynn,

Teaching...difficult?? Surely you jest! (I'm only kidding!! ) I have the utmost respect for you and all teachers!!

[PrincessFiona]

Esther,

I do think that there are people who are 'naturals' at teaching. I didn't mean my statement to be offputting. I am discovering that I am not a 'natural'. I have to prepare in advance and practice multiple times if I am lecturing in front of a classroom.....I am much better in the lab when I can go from bench to bench and show the students how to do things and field questions in that way. When I'm lecturing I usually have a separate conversation going on in my head that sounds like this "oh, goood one....you said that really clearly...NOT...relax....oh no...is my face turning red..it IS...stop turning red...take a deep breath...."

I got my evaluations back and I had an average score from 26 students of 8.5 out of 10 with some nice comments (she is a genuine person) and some errrr...not so flattering ones (she seems a bit disorganized). A bit disorganized? I wish I was just a bit disorganized.

kris

As a side note to what Sally said about college professors not getting education in education (), the chemistry department I work with is trying to change that around somewhat. We have a special, competitive-entry program for domestic students with a large stipend for incentive, that is designed to teach students on the PhD track to be exemplary teachers as well as researchers. It's a pretty neat program, and if I had access to something similar in physics I'd snap it up in a heartbeat!