Have we become too informal?

[PrincessFiona]

This is something I've been thinking about lately. All of the kids in our neighborhood call the adults by their first names. It always startles me when the 7 year old next door says 'hi kristen'. I guess I'm 'old school', but when I call my children's teachers I say "Hello, Mr. X, this is Mrs. Math, X's mom". I don't feel comfortable addressing the teacher by their first name and I AM an adult (most days).

I guess I feel that adults should be seen as being authority figures and that it certainly interferes if the 9 year olds are calling me by my first name. I have taken to saying "I am Mrs. Math" whenever I'm addressed informally. I do it in a nice way...

Maybe I'm just becoming an old fuddy duddy.

But on the note of being too informal.....when we were at the bridging over ceremony where the brownies bridged over to become girlscouts, 80% of the girls weren't wearing their uniforms...or if they were, they were wearing only their sash.....They had 6 color guards carry in the flag and do some flag-related stuff and...they were all wearing jeans/cut-offs/t-shirts etc. They looked like rag-a-muffins....but everyone was raving about how great it was to finally have some girls interested in the color guard etc...

When I was a girl (fuddy duddy) we took pride in our little brownie/girl scout uniform. We even wore the uniform to school the day of our meeting to be sure that we had our uniform on at the after school meeting.

I know I'm rambling..but this stuff has really been getting under my skin lately. Am I really an old fuddy duddy or are we becoming too informal as a society?

kris

[DCJenn]

We were just talking about this at a party recently. We all reachedthe consensus that if our friend is really close (like my friend Leslie whom I have known since 4th grade) she will be known to Nikolai as "Aunt Leslie". However, people like friends of my parents and extraneous neighbors will be called Mr. ____ and Mrs. _____. (If the person says "Please call me Joe." I think I will say something like "when Nikolai is 18 he can call you Joe! In as much of a joking manner as possible but to get the point across.

Another thing that bothers me is the waitress/waiter who refer to us as "guys", as in "hey guys, I'm susie and I'll be your waiter." Annoys me and the trip drops one percentage point for each 'guys' uttered.

Ugh-

Jenn

I thought this trend of calling people by their first names is an effort to appear young and vibrant? I've noticed a trend in the neighborhood I grew up in that the moms are now as thin as 25 year olds and always dressed cute, even when they're out gardening. My neighbor across the street was doing her summer planting on Saturday in a halter top, which I thought was a little weird when you're going to get covered in dirt and Miracle Grow. There's nothing wrong with this, but I wonder if the pressure to be thin and pretty is overtaking just being a wonderful mom and enjoying your life?

[migirl]

Um, I still call friends of my parents and ILs "Mr." or "Mrs." X and I'm a so-called grown-up! Frankly, I'm shocked that you have children addressing you by your first name, that feels really inappropriate to me. I don't think you're being a fuddy duddy at all.

I hear you about the clothing, slumping in seats (I don't know if you mentioned that), etc. But, as a parent now, I get my own healthy dose of the challenge. Lately it's been explaining why you can't continue to wear tights that have huge holes in the knees (princess meets tomboy; hard on tights). It seems that we are frequently reminding the correct way to sit in a chair, etc. Do parents just give up on this stuff or think it's not worth it? And while I don't think my preferences run quite as formal as yours, I sometimes feel like the strict ogre parent for my behavior expections. Guess that makes me a fuddy duddy.

Most of DDs friends parents are called by their first names and seem to prefer it. I do the same, but if a parent wanted their child to call me Mrs. ... that would be fine with me. Even though I'm not very used to it and wonder who that person is! We have DD address adults with Mr/Mrs for our elderly neighbors and when we are meeting an adult for the first time. Sometimes we will ask when introducing if they prefer to be called Mr/Mrs or by the first names. That seems to work well. I think that she understands that adults are different from kids whether she calls them by their first name or not.

DD called a friend of mine "tia" for a while because there was no way her little mouth could get out Mrs. L.... on a regular basis but my friend didn't want to be called by her first name. That worked too!

As far as school....the last two preschools we have been at, the teachers are addressed by first name. When we start kindergarten that will change to the Mr/Mrs/Miss. I wonder what I will call them! I'm surprised about the Brownie uniforms because I remember it being a big deal to wear it to school. I think part of the challenge of clothing is that it can be hard to find appropriate clothing for kids, especially as they get older.

I think formality depends greatly on where you live. I grew up in California and all of my friends called my parents by their first names and I called my friends' parents and my parents' friends by their first names as well. Doing this never interfered with me respecting them as authority figures.

Here in the South, on the other hand, all of our friends children call us "Dr. & Mrs." which I have to say I'm a little uncomfortable with just because that is not how I grew up. Even our gardener calls me "Mrs." even though he is more than twice my age and I have repeatedly asked him to call me by my first name. And I have always been uncomfortable with someone referring to my husband as "Dr." outside of work...it just seems pretentious to me...especially when he isn't even that person's doctor.

I'm a fuddy duddy too.

My kids call my friends and our neighbors by their first name, but with a Miss or Mr in front. I am Miss Tracy to my friend's kids. I call older WWII generation people Mr/Ms and their last name if I am not close to them, and my kids copy that.

I think the trend for first name use isn't for youthfulness, but for a sense of comradship...in the business setting you used to call your boss Mr. Smith. Now its Bob, to show he is part of the team.

I think NOT wearing uniforms, when they exist, to events takes away from the spirit of the event.

Take graduation. If 3/4 of the class weren't wearing the robes, there would be less a sense of circumstance, less outward display of unity of experience, if that makes sense.

[Sheherezade]

I have to agree with EDwife. Although I grew up in a community of Mr./Mrs., I have spent the majority of my life in places that use first names. Now, I am in a community that introduces me with "Mrs.". It drives me CRAZY!!! Honestly, I get rubbed the wrong way by Mr./Mrs. --not by first names. It has nothing to do with age to me - it has to due with the idea that respect is contained in a title or that respect comes from age alone. I personally respect people for their actions and values more than the "trappings". This could be the result of my own upbringing; I have grown up around some really awful people that commanded respect through title alone and that will always offend me. I say there is no reason the bricklayer or the gardener should be "Joe", but DH should be Dr. X. I suppose we could call everyone Mr. and Mrs. whatever after a certain age, but it seems to fall along class lines. After all, Alice was Alice and Mrs. Brady was Mrs. Brady.

I can tolerate being called Mrs. (or Dr.) but I prefer my first name. Ditto for DH. He had real trouble at work convincing the nurses and staff to call him by his first name. They have settled on an informal Dr. nickname. He feels strongly about it as well. He considers his use of his first name a bridge to his patients. His patients have always responded positively. Of course, I respect other people's desire to be called Mr. or Mrs. and have my children use appropriate titles. I hope I am also teaching them that all people have value regardless of the title before their name.

[PrincessFiona]

I don't have a problem with adults calling each other by their first names...and I don't think that we should be calling each other 'dr' outside of work....but do you guys really want the 7 year olds to be calling you by your first name?

I grew up in a military family where it was 'yes ma'am, no sir' and all adults were addressed by children in private settings as Mrs or Mr regardless of whether they were the maid or the doctor. I think it is a sign of respect.

[Sheherezade]

I actually have always had kids call me by my first name. Now, I have to go by Mrs. D. (Bowing to community standards!) That's ok. I consider Mrs (your last name here) forboding. I would like to be a friend to the children I know. I have always hoped to be available to a child in need when they need adult help. I guess I see offering a friendly name as an invitation to friendship. At the risk of sounding like Michael Jackson , I do invite friendship with kids in the neighborhood. These days, there are a lot of kids that need an adult friend. I would hope that the bonds I have might pay off later if they ever need help out of trouble and won't go to their parents. I know that is reaching far into the future -- but we had one parent friend like that when I was growing up. She used her first name and Mrs. interchangeably - she didn't seem to care. She clearly had respect for us as children and listened and valued our opinions. That is important. I suppose I model myself on her. So yes --I am totally comfortable with a 7 year old calling me Angie. I'm less comfortable with Mrs. D. I'm trying to develop that as a compromise.

Incidentally --I have never had trouble with children respecting me as Angie. I'm clearly an adult and I speak with authority when necessary. Just to get back on my soapbox -- at our school, everyone is Mr. or Mrs. except the gym teacher (he goes by Mr. initial like I'm trying) and the custodian whom everyone calls Rosie. (Kids and adults) It is the subtle class stuff that kills me. It is why I can't stand to use Dr. for myself even though I have my Ph.D. [/i]

[PrincessFiona]

But Angie, don't you think that you can act as a friend to a child in the neighborhood and still be 'mrs angie'? Our house is full of kids all of the time after school...and one of the little girls has parents who are going through a nasty divorce. Being 'Mrs Math' hasn't interfered with us talking or her knowing that I care about her in a motherly way. I think the kids all know I'd walk over hot coals for them...I laugh and joke with them, play piano for them (when they really need a good laugh) etc....It's totally cordial and not snooty or uppity at all. (I'm not like that). They just don't call me Kristen anymore than they would call their own parents by their first names.

I'll admit though...you've given me some food for thought.

It is the subtle class stuff that kills me

Thats part of why we encourange the kids to address everyone as Mr or Miss. I think it shows that the kids understand that adults are not their peers.

[HeartRN]

I think I'm with Kris on this one.....and I can especially agree/relate to the Brownies in Uniform example. As a little girl we ALWAYS wore full uniform to school on days of meetings, and always full uniform if it involved anything with the flag. I can't imagine anything less when it comes to the flag....this is a bit of a digression, but at DH's graduation Saturday, only a handful of people (at least that I could see, and the roundhouse was packed) removed their mortar boards for the national anthem Sometimes actions really speak louder than words!

I grew up in KS, and if I remember correctly, most every adult was Mr
or Mrs, unless they were very close family friends. Here in the south, Mr and Mrs are used pretty frequently. I was definitely uncomfortable when the nurse taking care of me after delilvery kept calling me "Mrs. " . Kids, IMO, are different. At daycare, all of Keelin's teachers are "Miss (insert first name). I think by instilling this behavior in kids (to address adults Mr/Mrs) helps garner respect. And since there are such major discipline issues these days (bullying, mouthing off, etc) , adults, IMHO, can use all the respect we can get from kids!! (without becoming fuddy duddy!)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05/24 ... index.html

topical link

[Sheherezade]

I suppose you are right, too. I don't see that Mrs. X would necessarily hinder the development of a relationship. I think the use of a first name is a social construct that speeds that relationship. Perhaps that is what makes it offensive --it assumes a closer relationship; it is also what makes it appealing. Maybe the excessive casual-ness (that is soo not a word!) in our culture is a result of impatience and the increasing mobility of our culture. I will be the first to admit that I do everything I can to speed along friendships in each of my new locales short of total weirdness; perhaps I use Angie initially to cook up false intimacy. Maybe many of us do these days. It is interesting that this is the first town in which I have encountered the culture of Mr. and Mrs. --and it is also the first city I have lived in with few transients and people that have lived here for generations. Interesting conversation, Mrs. Math.

Edit to respond to others

I teach the kids to say Mr. and Mrs. as well. I am comfortable with being called by my first name by children, however and would allow my kids to call an adult by his/her first name if that was the adult's wish. I do strongly believe that Mr. and Mrs. should be used for everyone (workers, etc) if it is going to be used, though. Another question: What do you do about teenage or college student babysitters? When does a person cross the line into "adult" introduction? We have a 17 year old sitter.