...having an affair -- the definition and other stuff

[Flynn]

I am curious what people think.

1.) What is your definition of an affair?
2.) Is an "emotional affair" a real affair?
3.) Would you leave your spouse if one of these enter into your marriage or would it depen? What would "it depend" on?

Finally, if your parents are having trouble in their marriage due to one or more of these issues, when are they obligated to tell their children, if ever? When should an affair become "other people's business?" When the couple is going to split? If they work it out and nobody knows, do they ever have to tell anyone?

I ask because this has (possibly) been something a close friend is dealing with (It's not me -- TRULY) in regard to her parents and it got me thinking as to what I really feel about all of this. I have NO experience with this on ANY level. I don't even have a close friend who has dealt with this until now. I know many of you have much more experience and wisdom and I was hoping to gain some perspective.

[Vanquisher]

Re: ...having an affair -- the definition and other stuff

1.) What is your definition of an affair?
2.) Is an "emotional affair" a real affair?
3.) Would you leave your spouse if one of these enter into your marriage or would it depen? What would "it depend" on?

My definition of an affair includes anything where a married person ( I might even inclue exlusive relationships other than marriage) engages in any kind of intimate behavior with another person. This includes an emotional relationship or kissing. Basically anything that you would hide or not want to share with your spouse regarding a relationship with another person (kissing, intercourse, oral sex, long intimate conversations). I mean I guess I could have a long intimate conversation with one of my girlfriends, but I would feel comfortable sharing that info with my husband. The line comes I think when you feel guilt about an act and do not share the act with your spouse. Does that make sense?

Would I leave my husband if he cheated? Right now, I would have to say unequivocably, "Yes!" If I have to put up with this residency bullshit, and he thinks he can get love on the side, I will not stand for that. I have thought before all this if he did, that it would depend. I guess it would just depend on whether or not I could get over it. At this point, I don't think I could. We have had points in our marriage, where I think we could move past it. I also think it would depend on the extent of the affair. Is this a three-year thing or a one-time event? Both would be awful, but one would cut much more deeply. Witholding an extreme amount of time from me to be with another person would really, really hurt.

I'm glad I haven't had to deal with it yet ( I hope I never do). I think affairs should be kept as private as possible and away from children. Of course if I was the burned party, I might divulge that information when I was pissed off. "Well, your father..."

[HeartRN]

I agree with the previous on what consitutes an affair. I think an emotional affair is almost worse than a purely physical one, but I believe drawing the line between "affair" and "close friendship with opposite sex as one might talk to her girlfriend" is difficult at times.

Given my family history and my parents long overdue divorce following many years of my father having affairs, I think I would have to leave my husband. And fast, before I changed my mind. It's way too painful for the kids. No matter how secretive parents try to be about these issues, kids always know when something isn't right. I did.

[DCJenn]

An affair- by my definition is any investment of time or emotional energy devoted to another person to the exclusion of the spouse. My husband has several very good female friends from residency. He speaks with them often. It has caused me some pause, let's say, but I've never been excluded from any event or conversation. I don't think that it's wrong or wierd to have friends of the opposite sex (I have several myself) but I do think that it's nigh impossible to have friends of the opposite sex that you're not attracted to in some way. It doesn't have to be sexual but there's obviously something there if you're friends with them in the first place!

Would I leave my spouse? Well, the bra-burning feminist in me says "hell, yeah." The evil, revenge laden shrew in me says, "hell, No". The pacifist in me says, "if he wants out, let him." and the banker in me says. "he's coughing up some major dough, regardless."

Jenn

PS- and do consenting adults need to discuss things with their children? I don't know. My friend's father had an affair, moved out, and four years later her parents decided to get back together. Her mom never really talked about it with her and my friend has had a tough time forgiving her father and unfortunately her mom died. So, I think my friend would have a better relationship with her dad if she understood more about why her mother decided to forgive and move on. But, I try to remind her that holding a grudge because of something her dad did 20 years ago while her mom was able to move on, seems like an incredible waste of psychic energy. But what the heck do I know, my parents have a marriage that is so f-ing perfect that it's the opposite problem, I had NO idea what the normal marriage looks like. I have NEVER heard them argue, my dad worships my mother (still sends her lingerie that she hides) and they are each other's best friend. It's so disgusting. They actually still make-out. I can't tell you the number of times I've rounded a corner and found them mid-grope. It's altogether wrong I tell ya!

Jenn

[Rapunzel]

Re: ...having an affair -- the definition and other stuff

Woah, now this is something to think about! Serious stuff, this. I have some experience in how this affects families both in the short-term and over succeeding decades and generations as I can count MANY relatives who have been unfaithful, including: my maternal grandfather, my paternal grandfather, several great-grandparents, and at least two aunts. Oh, and several cousins have also had affairs (some were married and some were single but had affairs with married persons).

1.) What is your definition of an affair?

Similar to what has been mentioned in the other posts:

An intimate relationship which replaces the relationship with the spouse.

2.) Is an "emotional affair" a real affair?

If the relationship is an emotional one and it replaces to some extent the relationship one should have with one's spouse - then yes.

3.) Would you leave your spouse if one of these enter into your marriage or would it depen? What would "it depend" on?

Hmmm.... Good question! Glad I've never really had to face that issue! A lot of things factor into this equation. But, the biggest thing is for meI is it depends upon the relationship that was engaged in - an emotional one only? A physical one? I would probably be quicker to forgive an emotional relationship than a physical one. I think that most physical affairs begin with an emotional relationship and if it has only gotten as far as the emotional level then it isn't as far or as bad as it "could" have gotten. I would not remain married to a man who was having sex with anyone else - period. That is a line I could not cross. I also have to think that what actions I would take would be governed by what was in the best interest of my children. A marriage where children are involved turns an affair into not just cheating on the spouse - but also seriously negatively impacting the child(ren). It's a selfish action that destroys not just the other spouse but an entire family.

Finally, if your parents are having trouble in their marriage due to one or more of these issues, when are they obligated to tell their children, if ever? When should an affair become "other people's business?" When the couple is going to split? If they work it out and nobody knows, do they ever have to tell anyone?

Well, if someone is "skulking around" having illicit affairs then I think in the interest of all of the victims involved EVERYONE should know. My extended family is full of these things kept mostly "secret". Keeping them as secrets has caused much more damage than if they were allowed to see the light of day. Additionally, in some of my extended family this pattern of infidelity is perpetuated by the implied acceptance that comes from keeping it all secret. The action of having an affair deserves absolutely no respect and the persons involved have lost their dignity already. Now, if the children are not to an age where they would understand the issue then there is no need in telling them about the affair until they are old enough to understand the issues involved.

I ask because this has (possibly) been something a close friend is dealing with (It's not me -- TRULY) in regard to her parents and it got me thinking as to what I really feel about all of this. I have NO experience with this on ANY level. I don't even have a close friend who has dealt with this until now. I know many of you have much more experience and wisdom and I was hoping to gain some perspective.

I've seen how devestating affairs are to the children involved. Whether the participants in the affair like it or not their affair DOES impact the children's lives. Even if the children never "officially" know about the affair the situation forever changes their parents' relationship (usually negatively - and even if there is no divorce resulting). From what I've witnessed in my family I think children have the right to know why their parent's relationship is the way it is. The affair is not just a betrayal of spouse - but of the entire family since there is an implication among children that their parents trust and respect one another. When that trust and respect are gone children do see it is missing - even if they don't know about the affair. It is only fair to let the children know that the change that has occurred is due to a horrible action.

Something else to consider: We all learn how to be married to another person by watching the married couple we are most familiar with and intimately tied to: our parents. While we are not doomed to repeat our parents' mistakes, we can learn quite a bit of dysfunction from them - never realizing that it isn't the best way to interact in a relationship. I've seen this in my own family - children who repeat their parents' mistakes. What has happened in those situations is the children were not really taught that one of the spouses (at least) was behaving in an unacceptable manner and that is why the relationship had certain things as its hallmarks. Thus, these children "learn" infidelity. By never openly discussing the infidelity (ie keeping it "secret") the family does a disservice to the children by not helping them see the consequences of certain actions (ie learning from history). If we don't know our history we are doomed to repeat it - so the saying goes.

This is what I have observed in my own family (which is a HUGE soap opera ). And, I'm so glad my parents have broken this trend of marital infidelity that seems to be par for the course in my extended family.

Jennifer

[Rapunzel]

I forgot to mention: One of the things that sets my parents and my siblings apart from our affair-ridden extended family is that we do NOT keep secret these past affairs. We acknowledge them and their impact upon the lives of everyone involved (which is waaaay more than just the two people having the affair). This has aided me and my siblings tremendously in learning what marital behaviors should be avoided and has kept this infidelity from getting a "free pass" by having it swept under the rug and out of sight (so to speak). We do not tolerate it - explicitly NOR implicitly (and, keeping it secret is implicit toleration).

Jennifer

[SueC]

I would view any type of affair as wrong, whether it be just physical, just emotional, online, etc.
Would I leave? Depends. My kids are young and they need their father, so unless he was being a complete jackass I'm pretty sure I'd try to salvage things.

I agree with SueC on the leaving issue, and with the definition of affair that many others made.

I part from Rapunzel Jen on which is more of a severe affront, emotional or physical. I imagine I would be able to forgive a "just sex" affair before an emotional bond.

My dad had an affair - with my 2nd grade teacher who was also my mother's friend. She & my mom met when I was in 2nd grade and became friends. The woman (who is now my stepmother) used to babysit me when my parents went out of town, and spent a lot of time w/my mom and I ... and obviously my dad, too. When I was in 5th grade my dad left my mom for her. DH knows this - obviously - and knows the impact it had on me. One of my favorite things about the guy is his loyalty - I think I honed in on that for a reason.

But what do i know???

[quote="j3qpatel"]I imagine I would be able to forgive a "just sex" affair before an emotional bond.

[quote]

I agree....I would be hurt by that but would be devastated if he were having an intimate emotional and physical affair. I think the decision to leave or not would depend on the age of my kids and his attitude toward what happened.

If it is worked out and no one knows about it, do they have to share it? I don't think. But, if they think their (older or adult) kids knew about it, I thikn it would be nice to lay any suspicions to rest. I also think that if younger kids are involved (know something is up with mom or dad and another person), then they need an age-appropriate explanation.

[pstone]

Tried to Avoid

Well, I tried to avoid this thread, but it has finally sucked me in. I would leave in a minute, or less. I would walk out the door, with little boy in hand, and then probably die inside before I made it to the car. I wonder, do more men leave their women if the woman has the affair?

Now, happier thoughts...

[Flynn]

Thanks guys. This is still sinking in and I was just thrown for such a loop here. I don't know the full story yet but my friend basically said she was right about her mom. The layers of destruction is uncomprehendable right now.

Unbelievable.