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When is "too many?"

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  • #61
    Not sure why I'm typing in the debate section, I purportedly have sworn it off.

    What I understood when I read Annie's comment on the Duggar diatribe by that oh-so-enlightened San Francisco scribe, was that readers are apt to give the writer more leeway when it's a safer target (the Duggars) as opposed to more politically correct subjects such as obese folks or fill-in the blank with the group of your choosing.

    And I think that's a valid point to make and doesn't lose its validity because there are millions of obese people and one Duggar family. The writer (who must know her audience) was taking a much wider swipe than a particular critique of the family.

    That single family (or her estimation of it) was just a launching pad for some attacks and pretty specious conclusions she has about a lot of groups of people who probably don’t have a helluva lot -- if anything --in common with Duggar clan. I don't want to reread it because it's not worth my time - but it's kind of amusing (and scary) to see all of the backflips she does to tie in everyone she hates in her little rant.

    From what little of the family that I’ve read, they do sound odd. And I can’t relate to any of their experiences, goals, or beliefs that I’ve read about. But I don’t think the “Duggars of the world” are a pressing concern locally or globally.

    But maybe I’m just not as smart as the author or her readership. Maybe pollution, terrorism, sexual assault and other problems could be eliminated if only those Duggars would get their tubes tied. Oh, wait a minute the solution isn’t as simple as that according to the implications of the author’s little rant since the Duggars obviously must have so much in common with anyone who: voted Republican, lives in a rural area, is Catholic, refers to themselves as evangelical, etc. If everyone could be as cool and smart as that tattooed, Bay area, pagan dad – or at least aspire to that, this world would be peachy-keen. Yes indeed.

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    • #62
      Kevin-

      See, you need to play more! that was a great response.

      Jenn

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      • #63
        I probably don't need to play in this section -- for my own health. And I probably don't need to play in this section when I'm stressed. Rollercoaster weekend with my mom's health - maybe I'll explain in the call room when I get a chance.

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        • #64


          The vitriole in that article really freaked me out. I kind of envy the Duggers in a way....at least they can walk through the Mall of America without their kids picking on each other, pulling hair, screaming "I hate you, you jerk", crying, walking slowly to not be recognized as "part of this awful family" after being reprimanded for hitting his sister over the head with a cowboy hat, etc.

          :thud:

          Where can I get kidbots?

          I also truthfully don't thinks it's so bad that they have simple clothes/haircuts....(don't slap me)...I wish we could get away from the fashion hysteria. My 10 year old thinks she has no value if she can't get her clothes from 'The Children's Place' online....and she is already planning the *trends* that she wants to set at the middle school.

          I wish I could have been sane enough to have a dozen kids. Sadly, my 5 have completely done me in...I'm a shadow of my former self....a big, biiiiiiiiiig shadow :> My fantasy was always a remake of "Eight is enough" for my family. But...we have more like "Cheaper by the Dozen" with kids hanging from the rafters.

          kris
          ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
          ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

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          • #65
            They only have, I think, 6 girls and yet they named three of them Jana, Joy-Anna, and Johanna? Everyone doesn't even get their own name now?


            (Wow, that SF Gate column aroused my sympathy toward them to such a degree that I feel a little bad criticizing them. Darn you, SF Gate!! [shakes fist] Now I'll have to keep my questions about Michelle's hair to myself!)
            Married to a hematopathologist seven years out of training.
            Raising three girls, 11, 9, and 2.

            “That was the thing about the world: it wasn't that things were harder than you thought they were going to be, it was that they were hard in ways that you didn't expect.”
            Lev Grossman, The Magician King

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            • #66
              The article was highly vitriolic, but c'mon, the hair is bad, and I am not criticizing anyone who has a large family, but 16! I do think that is too many whether you can pay for them or not.

              And, could they really pay for them all, or was it catching up to them? They have had to sell themselves out now for 4 hour-long shows on the Discovery Health Channel and countless other magazines and talk shows. TLC decorated their house for them. I do think there is no individuality in that house, and it is good to have well-behaved children, but these children are kidbots!

              No, we shouldn't all wish to be poetess anarchists, but I think there is a valid point that most super-sized families are in small conservative Christian religious subsects.

              I am wishing I never posted that article at all. I could see the humor in it. Apparently not everyone could. I do not wish the Duggars ill, but I do think it is *wrong*, and if not "wrong" at least weird to creepy to have 16 children.

              I wasn't taking that article as fact, but one person's opinion that I found slightly humorous. Yes, I can see how it could be offensive, if you choose to take it that way, but behind all the rants, there are some nuggets of humor and truth there.

              She had trouble finding a doctor who would do a VBAC on her. Isn't it medically irresponsible? What if she had hemorrhaged, died, and left 16 children?

              I also don't think it is right to make all your older children into the parents of your younger children.

              Their clothes and hair are just that, clothes and hair. Don't be suprised if you find them on a TLC makeover show next.
              Heidi, PA-S1 - wife to an orthopaedic surgeon, mom to Ryan, 17, and Alexia, 11.


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              • #67
                Originally posted by heidi
                I also don't think it is right to make all your older children into the parents of your younger children.
                That is what I have the biggest problem with. Kids should be kids. I wonder, if when the girls grow up, will they even want their own kids? After raising X amount of siblings....that is the last thing I would want. They will most likely go on to have huge families of their own because that is what is expected of them....and all they know. How sad.
                ~shacked up with an ob/gyn~

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by heidi
                  Their clothes and hair are just that, clothes and hair. Don't be suprised if you find them on a TLC makeover show next.
                  I would totally watch that.
                  Married to a hematopathologist seven years out of training.
                  Raising three girls, 11, 9, and 2.

                  “That was the thing about the world: it wasn't that things were harder than you thought they were going to be, it was that they were hard in ways that you didn't expect.”
                  Lev Grossman, The Magician King

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    The family site is http://www.duggarfamily.com ... that other site was just Jim Bob's.

                    If you think that article was overly bitchy and snarky, definitely don't check out the boards at http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com ... I agree - it was bitchy -- and definitely overreached in some places, but I also think the author made some valid points.

                    I think Heidi makes a valid point regarding the ability to provide for the family. They admit themselves that they do interviews / tapings / photoshoots at least once a month -- which surely bring in goods or money. The "family trip" show probably never would have been possible w/o Discovery, as I'm sure their various visits and tours were comped in exchange for the t.v. coverage. Same with TLC jumping on to decorate the house. The Duggars would refer to this as "God providing the means", which you can buy into or not.

                    I'll be interested to see what happens as the kids are old enough to leave the nest and / or go to college.

                    I also agree with Heidi about the VBAC. I know lots of people have done it safely (but it's frowned upon again, right?), but lots of people have not done it for their 16th child.

                    Kevin - hope your mom is doing well.

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                    • #70
                      I've been trying to avoid this too. But, Julie, I have questions about the hair. :>

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                      • #71
                        It's not just that it's bad hair, because lots of people have bad hair, it's that it's bad and time-consuming hair! Why would you do that? If you're going to spend the time it takes to heat up the curling iron, which she clearly does, then you have the time to make it look good!

                        I'd love to see What Not to Wear take her on. One of my favorite episodes of that show was when they had an Indian (I think) teenager who wanted to dress fashionably but modestly, and they were able to help her out nicely. I think they could do wonders for the Duggars.
                        Married to a hematopathologist seven years out of training.
                        Raising three girls, 11, 9, and 2.

                        “That was the thing about the world: it wasn't that things were harder than you thought they were going to be, it was that they were hard in ways that you didn't expect.”
                        Lev Grossman, The Magician King

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          It's not just that it's bad hair, because lots of people have bad hair, it's that it's bad and time-consuming hair!
                          Exactly!

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                          • #73
                            Woo-hoo, Kevin, post more often! I agree with SueAnne about the article. I could see the places that were supposed to be funny, but it was just too snarky and hateful for me. There were several comments that really crossed the line, IMO.

                            I agree that the Duggars are WAY out there. But I don't really understand the hateful response in the article. Neither of the parents has been coerced into this lifestyle. The kids will grow up and make their own choices, as most kids do. Do the Duggars say that people who don't make their choices are going to hell? (I haven't looked at the website, so I don't know.) I don't agree with how they are raising their children, but that can be said for many, many people whose parenting I have observed. Their kids are fed and clothed, and seem to be happy. When I think of the sad stories I have heard about the things that happen in the lives of children, (and I am pretty sheltered, honestly) what the Duggars are doing doesn't look that bad, and certainly doesn't deserve the ugly remarks in that article. I really feel that a LOT of the author's sarcasm is aimed at the couples' beliefs, and that does offend me. Many, many people believe that "Children are an inheritance (or blessing) from the Lord", (from the Bible) myself included. Most, though, are content to limit their blessings to something more manageable than 16, though!

                            I do find the whole article to be a little ironic in light of the fact that it is the christian right that is accused so often of being intolerant of different lifestyle choices.

                            And jesher, I can certainly understand the impression you got if the Duggars were your mental picture of evangelical christians. I would say that they are definitely not your average evangelicals!

                            The hair is definitely bad.

                            I hope they will still let the cameras come around when the kids grow up a little more and start making their own choices.

                            Thanks for stirring the pot, Heidi!

                            Sally
                            Wife of an OB/Gyn, mom to three boys, middle school choir teacher.

                            "I don't know when Dad will be home."

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                            • #74
                              finally found out what religion they are: Southern Baptist

                              i know you've all been pulling your hair out wondering ... now everyone can go to sleep.

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                              • #75
                                Heidi,

                                I'm no apologist for the Duggar lifestyle (as I understand it), but I support their right to live it. And I really don't think I have anything in common with them! My strong reaction was to the worldview the author seems to espouse in the article -- that everyone (pretty much except her group of friends and apparently the majority of her readership) is just a bunch of idiots.

                                Ha, but I almost spit up on the keyboard when I saw a picture of the tribe had cross-posted with my reply!

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