What is "cultured" and do like nude art?

[Vishenka69]

There is a very heated debate on another site I frequent regarding who is considered "cultured," how being "cultured" is related to art appreciation and whether any of it has an affect on appreciation of nude art. It all started with one of the women complaining about a drawing of a nude woman in a recent Pottery Barn catalog. The drawing pictured is very small, blends in with the wall and generally inconspicous. One of the comments made to her post is that a cultured person would know better than to call a nude drawing gross and disgusting. Hence the debate. I thought it would be interesting to see what your opinions on the topic would be.

I'll start. I do think that both DH and I are cultured but our knowledge and education is heavily scewed toward the Western cultures. We are familiar with classical Western literature, art and music, etc. We both appreciate all kinds of art, including nudes and have two abstract paintings of nude women hanging in our bedroom.

[SueC]

I appreciate most types of art, though sometimes when I'm looking at something I think my 6 year old could produce, I'm kind of left scratching my head. I think the whole nude thing is just a comfort level thing and wouldn't think it would necessarily make somebody more or less cultured. We've got a cute little sketch done by John Lennon of a nude couple under an apple tree, but there are other types of nude art that I think I'd feel funny hanging on my walls. I guess I can handle nudity on my own walls as long as it doesn't seem that graphic and looks tasteful. I certainly wouldn't have a painting of somebody's crotch over my fireplace (reminds me of the crochetyourcrotch thread started by somebody (Julie?).

[DCJenn]

Art and culture is such a personal subject because it also includes religion, experiences, etc.

I love, love, love modern abstract art, and I have some really cool (I think) stuff that a friend of mine does. I enjoy seeing the Old Masters but I'm not really into a bowl of fruit as art.

Nekkidness doesn't bother me at all, but there's gratuitous nudity (i.e. for shock value only) and then there are genuine celebrations of the human body- as long as you can celebrate the human form, I'm all for it.

Jenn

[Sheherezade]

Nudes don't bother me, either. I think that when I piece of art is trying to represent the beauty in the human form, it's fine. I suppose that when the sexuality of the subject (or the artist) becomes part of the experience, it gets a little more complicated. I think that is private and I am uncomfortable being invited into the private relationship. Now....a little TMI.....my mother had a relationship with an artist. For some time, she had some nude sketches of her done by him on the walls of her home. Although they were great work, they made the family uncomfortable. ( Of course, nobody complained!) If we hadn't known the story behind them and the subject personally it wouldn't have been a problem.

I think the reaction to the art is complex. Who was it who said of pornography "I know it when I see it." ? There is something to that.

I don't think a person's comfort level with nudes is indicitive of their "culture level" at all ... I think it's just a comfort level with nudes. This could be similar to a person's comfort level with abstract painting or a bowl of fruit. If you like it, you like it, if you don't ... well, you don't.

I think freaking out about a print on the wall in a pottery barn catalog is ridiculous!

I do know that I wouldn't enjoy seeing nudes of my mother on the wall ... there are just some things I don't want to see.

[Vishenka69]

Pretty much agree with everything said so far. The implication in the other forum was that if someone looks at a drawing of a nude woman and automatically thinks "Yuck, naked picture" as oppose to just briefly registering the drawing on their radar and moving on to the ridiculously expensive but also gorgeous bedding (which takes up about 85% of the page), then that person must be uncultured.

[Auspicious]

I certainly wouldn't have a painting of somebody's crotch over my fireplace (reminds me of the crochetyourcrotch thread started by somebody (Julie?).

Hey! I only posted the pic of the knit uterus--I was not responsible for that thread turning all crotchy.


As for the cultured thing, I think being sophisticated is a better goal than being cultured. And by that, I mean

cultured ...
Synonyms: GENTEEL 1, cultivated, distingué, polished, refined, urbane, well-bred

vs.

so·phis·ti·cat·ed ...
b : having a refined knowledge of the ways of the world cultivated especially through wide experience

I think in common usage cultured has connotations of knowing how to relate to and be a part of the upper class and having a taste for the "right" art and the "right" literature, music etc. But to me it's more important to be adaptable to a broad range of situations and to have an understanding of and an empathy for the many, many different ways that people have of living their lives and what makes them tick. It's a big world out there. For me art and literature are very important in developing that kind of understanding, but it's going to include Jasper Johns as well as Vermeer, and Kerouac as well as Jane Austen. (Actually Johns and Kerouac are pretty mainstream now, and Vermeer and Austen are subversive in their own ways, but you get my point--sophisticated includes the gritty and unendearing sides of life, and cultured sort of doesn't.) It definitely includes nudes--that's a pretty huge theme throughout literally the entire history of art.

As for the nude in the Pottery Barn catalog, I would say that if you find a Pottery Barn catalog offensive, you're probably leading too sheltered a life and should consider expanding your comfort zone. But at the same time, telling that person how uncultured they are probably isn't the best approach to the situation, and in its own way shows a lack of sophistication because snobbishness is usually unsophisticated. See what I mean?

[Vishenka69]

I agree with Julie as well. The reason I used the word "cultured" is because that's the word that was used on the other forum.

Btw, this is the picture that prompted the original discussion.

[Sheherezade]

You are kidding me. Someone's got issues.

[spotty_dog]

I think that Julie covered this perfectly! However, it begs a question:

Does the poster of a Nude Bicycle Race on my living room wall make me unsophisticated? Or just uncultured?

This is a tiny image but it's pretty much my poster:

:nono:
Well, I for one am just shocked! Shocked and apalled and disgusted!
:banned:

(and completely joking)

A nude bicycle race would hurt!

That woman was LOOKING for something to be ticked about. Even knowing it was the picture that started the discussion, I had to look hard to see it.

[spotty_dog]

LOL.

Speaking of whose fault it was that the crochetyourcrotch thread degenerated...

[DCJenn]

OMG-

First, it's hardly even visable. Secondly, I think (from what little I can see) it was beautifully rendered.

Jeez. I wonder what she would have thought about the block print of a naked woman that was framed in black leather and a zipper that my ex-boyfriend hung over his bed? (and for the record, I was standing right next to him when he bought it...)

Jenn