Where does evil reside? In the temptress or the tempted?

[Sheherezade]

I am always fascinated when I stumble across fundamental differences in culture. Here's the one I've been pondering lately. (This will be best read with a glass of wine..... )

It appears that the Muslim culture likes to place "evil" firmly on the temptation -- not on the man/human. At least this seems to be true with the treatment of sex and women. If a woman is attractive, she's evil. If a man acts on that attraction - he's often seen as the victim. Western culture is evil. The people of the Muslim world that enjoy it are the victims. I'm not sure if this extends further, but it flies in the face of American thinking.

Here, if a woman chooses to wear a skimpy skirt and gets raped, you better not go blaming the woman. She can wear anything she wants. The rapist committed the sin. (BTW, I do agree!!!) We've extended that thinking to TV and radio programming. If you don't like it, turn it off. It isn't evil, but if you choose it or enjoy it maybe *you* are. Our choices define us, but we don't label the creation as evil in general.

Does anyone else see this? I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but it's an entertaining thought. Maybe the more religious among you could tell me if there is a direct conflict between the Koran, the Bible and the Torah. Or if each society just picks the parts of the religion that suit the culture. Or if I need to stop philosophizing and get on with life.

[DCJenn]

I said both but within a context-

I'm thinking of an adulterous situation where both parties are equally at fault. In the case of rape, in no way should the victim ever be blamed. However, it's a lot easier to blame the victim, especially if (as is likely) the victim is a powerless female.

It's kind of a similar situtation with orphaned kids in so many cultures- they're orphaned so therefore they're already damaged and/or because they're orphaned, there must be something wrong with them and/or because their parents are ______ the children will be _____ too so why bother, they're already damaged.

Jenn

It's not quite 2pm here. Can I still have the glass of wine?

I agree mostly with what Jenn said. In the examples you mention, I assume the "temptress"/attractive female is just minding her own business and in that case the problem is with the tempted. And that she is not, for example, capitalizing on ideas of temptation such as working as a stripper....but even if she is that doesn't make her evil or deserving of any crime committed against her. In the context of what you are saying, I think the idea of a woman covering up so as not to tempt a man is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous that his actions get blamed on her.

As I am typing this, I'm thinking of all sorts of hedges and ways comments would be miscontrued. I will still expect my daughters to dress appropriately!

[Rapunzel]

In my religious doctrine evil is independent of either temptation or the tempted. Evil is, by definition the opposite of good. And, one may choose to do evil and, thus become a temptor (as well as the successfully tempted in one fell swoop).

So, I cannot vote for any of the offered choices. Evil is an independent phenomenon and allows for the existance of good because without bad there is no good and vice versa.

If you want to define evil then, according to my beliefs, it is whatever is in opposition to God (since he is the epitomy of perfection in that he is completely "good"). Satan is not the "source" of evil. Rather, he chose to do evil by fighting against God. Evil would exist even if Satan (or any other temptor for that matter) did not.

I hope that made sense. Here's the scriptures I'm thinking of in light of this topic (for a frame of reference):

2Nephi 2:11-16
11For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.
12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.
13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not bthere is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.
14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon.
15 And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter.
16 Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other.

And, for anyone interested in knowing the purpose of the Fall according to LDS (hint: we don't regard it as a bad thing), here goes:

2Nephi 2:17-27

17 And I, Lehi, according to the things which I have read, must needs suppose that an angel of God, according to that which is written, had fallen from heaven; wherefore, he became a devil, having sought that which was evil before God.
18 And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become miserable forever, he sought also the misery of all mankind. Wherefore, he said unto Eve, yea, even that old serpent, who is the devil, who is the father of all lies, wherefore he said: Partake of the forbidden fruit, and ye shall not die, but ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.
19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth.
20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth.
21 And the days of the children of amen were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.
22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.
25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.
27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.

So, I can't really vote for any of those choices. I mention all of this because I thought you might find it interesting, Angie.

I can say for a fact that in my church's worldview everyone is entirely responsible for their own actions - period. You cannot blame a single thing you CHOOSE to do on another person or on another person's choices. Period.

So, extrapolating that to the analogy you provided, while a woman's dress might provide a man temptation to think lascivious thoughts and possible take action on those thoughts HE is entirely responsible for his actions. It does not make him evil. But, it does mean that he has the choice to give in to or choose evil over good. He has equal ability to make the good/righteous choice as well. Since my religious views see this life as a test then you see where I'm coming from.

I think that is very much in keeping with what laws have been through the ages down from Hammarabi's Code. Every man is responsible for his actions. And, I think you start encountering problems when you allow a person to "blame" their actions on another person.

[Sheherezade]

Well...I agree with pretty much everyone. So where does all this religous head covering stuff come from? Since when is it unholy to show off your hair? I always associated that with the "temptation" theme. How is it disrespectful for women to have their head uncovered but not men? (Although I guess the men do it too in Orthodox Judiasm.)

[Vishenka69]

It's kind of a similar situtation with orphaned kids in so many cultures- they're orphaned so therefore they're already damaged and/or because they're orphaned, there must be something wrong with them and/or because their parents are ______ the children will be _____ too so why bother, they're already damaged.

Jenn, this is so true in Russia. My parents' friends went childless through their whole life because they were afraid to adopt (and couldn't have their own).

As for the original question, I think for the most part the blame should be on the tempted but might also depend on the situation. People can be tempted by so many weird things that I think it's pretty much impossible to limit everything.