Rumsfeld Resign?

I don't know if it's an American or Human Thing, but we seem to always be searching for a culprit, somebody to lay the blame on. Is he it? Should he be thrown under the bus for the way things have soured in Iraq? Did ignore sage advice and forge ahead with "unpopular" plans that became disasterous?

It's pretty convincing when 4 former generals (so far) come forward to speak out against his leadership and decisions, acusing this adminstration of more horrific wrongdoings than Nixon's. It's downright daunting when the Administration has to solicit a general (only one so far that I'm aware of) to come out in support of Rumsfeld.

Is it time for him to resign? Thoughts?

[Rapunzel]

First question: Who were the former generals denouncing Rumsfield? If we're talking Ramsey Clark here than I'm anything but impressed.

Wasn't he an attorney general under LBJ?

[DCJenn]

They were four genreal who have actually served in Iraq.

Morale sucks, and it sucks worse the higher up the food chain you go.

Maybe it'll help.

Jenn

PS- Caveat- the military guys HATE having a civilian with no actual service experience as 'the boss'. Which is a problem since the SOD is by default, a civilian. There was no love lost for Clinton, either although Cohen got pretty high marks for being relatively rational.

[Rapunzel]

Yup, Tree, you're right.

I can't think of why I thought he was a general....

It's so weird to call you Tree. But, come to think of it you guys have had to put up with me being Rapunzel for so long. That must be bizarre as well....

[Rapunzel]

Caveat- the military guys HATE having a civilian with no actual service experience as 'the boss'. Which is a problem since the SOD is by default, a civilian. There was no love lost for Clinton, either although Cohen got pretty high marks for being relatively rational.

Very interesting....

Well, we're up to six generals now:

Gen. Anthony Zinni
Maj. Gen. Charles Swannack
Major Gen. John Riggs
Maj. Gen. John Batiste
Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold
Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton

They're all retired, and from various branches.

I think Rumsfeld should step down -- but I also think Cheney should be booted out. Honestly they're the puppetters behind the whole sha'bang IMO. Cheney is the one who said we'd be greeted as 'liberators'.

I wonder if this will be another "I absolutely stand by X." and two weeks later that person "resigns". Ummmm, Michael Brown, Harriet Meyer, Andrew Card. Why can't they just stop the bull and pull the plug.

[Rapunzel]

Can I see a link to the letter the retired generals have signed? I'm curious to know if they oppose the entire idea of ousting Saddam (especially given the supportive new information from Saddam's papers now released for translation). Or are they unhappy that the plans did not go far enough, were error-prone, etc. In summary are these generals upset with the political idea of ousting Saddam OR are they upset with the actual execution of the military action? I think the former would sound like political posturing and the latter seems just a tad too little too late (ie if the plans were so bad then where were these guys oh, say, two or more years ago?).

Not saying if I agree with them or not at the moment since I have to read the letter they've signed first. Just seems to be a bizarre bit of timing....

[DCJenn]

Since you can be court martialed if you're active duty, they've chosen to stick it out until retirement.

NPR just did a great background piece on Gen. Billy Mitchell and WWI. He spoke out while still in and was court-martialed even though he was one of the heros of the war.

Jenn

I don't know that they've all signed a letter, I just know that they've all publicly spoken out against Rumsfeld. I'll give you a link to the article where I found the 6 names ... my understanding is that it's not a political "we shouldn't have done this", it's a "he doesn't listen to his generals on the ground and has screwed up the whole process". As jloriene said, the active duty generals would be court marshalled for saying the same publicly.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/13/ ... ion=cnn_us

[Laker]

Maybe Janet Reno should be in charge of Iraq. She did a heck of a job with Elian...

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Ummmm ... what does that have to do with Rumsfeld or Iraq? Reno wasn't even Sec. of Defense -- she was Atty. General. There are tons of other questionable issues with Gonzalez ... but that would be a different thread.

[Rapunzel]

OK, now I understand.

From the link:

"I think we need senior military leaders who understand the principles of war and apply them ruthlessly, and when the time comes, they need to call it like it is," he told CNN

"Specifically, I feel he has micromanaged the generals who are leading our forces there," Swannack said in the telephone interview.

However, it also says this:

"Dealing with Secretary Rumsfeld is like dealing with a CEO," retired Marine Gen. Mike DeLong told CNN's "American Morning" on Thursday.

"When you walk in to him, you've got to be prepared, you've got to know what you're talking about. If you don't, you're summarily dismissed. But that's the way it is, and he's effective."

DeLong was the deputy commander of the U.S. Central Command from 2000 to 2003 under Franks.

What I'd like to know specifically now is: What basic principles of war has Rumsfield violated AND are those principles set in stone or are they fluid (in order to accomodate continual changes in, well, the art of war)?

Until I know this it sounds like a group of generals are upset that their good-ol'-boys club has been turned on its head by Rumsfield. It's a he-said, he-said debate until we start hearing exactly what rules of war Rumsfield has egregiously violated (assuming violating these older military school lessons was a bad thing)....

[Amiens]

I have been having lots of discussions with my dad over this, as one of the generals was his commanding officer and longtime family friend when he served in the USMC. I highly doubt that the general who has asked for Rumsfield's resignation is upset that the good-ol boys club has been turned on it's head. That is just not his style. This general has always called it like it is, and doesn't beat around the bush.

Crystal

[Rapunzel]

So, then what are the reasons? We see some retired generals complaining - but not giving solid reasons behind their complaints. It makes them come off as politically motivated or just emotionally-driven.

I'd really, really like to hear reasons why these guys think Rumsfield has screwed up royally. Seriously, I do. I'm just waiting to hear the case that they are maintaining they have against him.