unassisted pregnancy / birth

[MrsC]

Looking at that link, it seems that many women choose to have an unassisted birth because there is no midwife available. This is the problem I have with it. That they would put themselves and their babies at risk JUST because they want a solitary, intimate experience is awful. I'm not against homebirths. I know that many of these midwives are very experienced and well trained. My grandmother had seven kids at home with a midwife present. They didn't go to the hospital back then but if there were any problems they would still call a doctor.

To say that childbirth is a natural thing and no medical intervention is necessary is fine, but a line must be drawn somewhere. Back when women didn't go to the hospital for childbirth, the number of women and babies that died during was very high. Saying that it is all a personal choice doesn't cut it. People make bad choices all the time. Do they have the right to put their babies at risk because they want an unassisted birth?

[spotty_dog]

What I'd read didn't have an actual diagnosis of the birth defects, or a physical description of the mother. Obviously you're more familiar with the various members of the board than I am.

Not really, you just chose as your example a woman I've "known" through her blog for almost two years, and from participating in communities with her I've come to consider her something of a friend. Her choice to UP/UC freaks me out and I spent this last pregnancy anticipating a bad end, and it kind of bothers me that she "evangelizes" UP/UC, but I don't see how her story is more disturbing than any other.

[Michele]

I do think that most pregnancies and childbirths are normal and that they should be regarded as natural processes. I REALLY wanted a low intervention pregnancy and birth. But being (and married to) a doctor I knew about what could go wrong. I agreed to see an OB/GYN and give birth in a hospital for Russ....but he agreed to help me decide if the docs were recommending things for their comfort with labor progression/routine labor of the hospital or if it was necessary. We moved in the mid of my pregnancy and FL was very progressive, lower interventions if unecessary, rooming in with mom and baby....here in LA?? You come to the hospital in labor, you are hooked up to pitocin, get an epidural, membranes stripped, baby comes out fast or you're sectioned, and then the baby goes to the nursery until you're discharged. (OK so I'm exaggerating a little...but not too much.) Not my idea of 'birth.'

I read the Baby Catcher...a book by a midwife and she summed up the difference between docs and midwives pretty well...
"Docs view pregnancy and childbirth as complicated until proven otherwise, whereas midwives view them as normal until proven otherwise."
She made that statement after a doc told her that an uncomplicated childbirth was "a retrospective diagnosis." I think that sums medicine up pretty well. We are so trained to deal with everything that is wrong with the human body that we sometimes forget that the human body is an amazing machine evolved over generations to withstand the trials of time and life. For example our liver has the ability to regenerate which serves well since it handles all that we eat/ingest first, so toxins that destroy liver tissue don't immediately kill us, etc.

After learning about LA, I really wanted a home birth. Knowing full well where each of the hospitals were, how long it would take to get to them, etc...I had almost made some progress in my discussions with Russ....until my OB appt...yeah totally didn't get the birth I thought I wanted. And I'm very sad and regretful over the things I missed out on...a big belly, what labor feels like, being able to hold my baby after the birth etc.
After all of this I guess I'm now "high risk" and that means highly medicalized pregnancies and childbirths from now on. I feel like something that should be natural and normal can't ever be normal and natural for me. And I guess I proved that it isn't always normal and natural.

Do they have the right to put their babies at risk because they want an unassisted birth?

So as far as UP/UC goes, I think it's ok as long as you have a plan for if something goes wrong and you FULLY understand that things can go wrong quickly and be very devastating. Should it be illegal?? I don't think so....but I'm kinda coming at it from a "natural selection" kinda idea...I do kinda/maybe think that if you choose to have a UP/UC and things go wrong and you don't seek help within a reasonable time period and your child is brain damaged or something terrible, that you can't really blame anyone but yourself...and I'm probably a heartless bitch but you shouldn't receive financial compensation beyond the regular assistance setup for handicap/medicaid stuff (the "Baby Catcher" lost her midwife practice b/c of a person who wanted a UC and something went wrong and she didn't call b/c she really wanted it unassisted and the baby suffered greatly and the people sued her....I don't think they should have been allowed to sue her for their personal negligence of their own health.) Should CPS deem them unfit mothers? If something goes wrong, they are the ones that are going to have to live with it every single day....but I don't think I should be made to feel responsible for their poor planning.

OK I think I offically made it into the heartless bitch club.

Her choice to UP/UC freaks me out and I spent this last pregnancy anticipating a bad end, and it kind of bothers me that she "evangelizes" UP/UC, but I don't see how her story is more disturbing than any other.

I've only read a few. Hers was 'stand-out' disturbing to me b/c of the decision to do VBAC at home, alone. So many doctors have concerns about trying VBAC w/in the walls of the hospital ... the idea of doing it at home, alone --- it just boggled my mind.

I am truly glad that all has worked out for them. I just think it was more luck than anything that it did.

[MissCrabette]

It boggles the mind that someone would choose to have a baby without any nearby medical help. I personally don't think that calling the ambulance should even be considered a backup plan. As someone here said, when things go wrong with childbirth, they go wrong FAST. Faster than it would take an ambulance to reach you.

Now that's not to say that I'm in favor of a highly medicalized childbirth. I think you can have a perfectly relaxed and unassisted childbirth in a birthing center that's part of a hospital. You'd have the option of medical care should you require it.

Should we criminalize unassisted pregnancies? I see no reason for it as long as no harm has been done to the baby. I do think, however, that unassisted childbirths that harm the baby in one way or another should be criminalized. For example, I don't think that the death of a baby during unassisted childbirth should be labeled "natural selection". The act of deliberately avoiding medical care during childbirth can be seen as criminally negligent. If the baby dies during such a delivery it could be considered involuntary manslaughter.

If the baby dies during such a delivery it could be considered involuntary manslaughter.

This was my original point. A doctor would be held accountable if they were in error, and I don't see how a mother could avoid accountability if their error (either by lack of medical knowledge or the failure to seek help (ummm w/reasonable expectation of how quickly help could be there).

[spotty_dog]

I think you can have a perfectly relaxed and unassisted childbirth in a birthing center that's part of a hospital. You'd have the option of medical care should you require it.

Having just been through this I have to disagree. I had a fabulous, hands-off labor that was about as low-intervention as you can get in a hospital, but in no way would I call it perfectly relaxed and unassisted. There's nothing relaxing about driving to the hospital in labor, or unassisted about having nurses wander through the bathroom while you're trying to pee.

[Stella]

If the baby dies during such a delivery it could be considered involuntary manslaughter.

This was my original point. A doctor would be held accountable if they were in error, and I don't see how a mother could avoid accountability if their error (either by lack of medical knowledge or the failure to seek help (ummm w/reasonable expectation of how quickly help could be there).

Exactly. And flame all you want, but if I were on a jury in such a case, I'd find the woman guilty. I find it incredibly selfish and irresponsible to refute medical care/assistance on some level when you are bringing ANOTHER LIFE into this world.

I was born via C-Section and neither my mother nor I were harmed and my mother didn't feel like she "lost" anything from it - she got me, and isn't that the end goal anyway? To have your baby alive and well?

I respect those who desire a birth that is as "natural" as possible, but give me the epidural and whatever else I need. I don't live in the jungle, swing from trees, lick myself clean, or eat from a trough. What is "natural" for humans anymore, anyway? I just don't understand drawing those comparisons to other "animals."

[Vanquisher]

while others say it's just like bad cramps.

Honey, no, they lie. It starts off like bad cramps.

[rainbabies]

while others say it's just like bad cramps.

those people are stupid. :>

[spotty_dog]

Too bad our homebirthing members aren't too active these days. Beccaroo is married to an OB/GYN who doesn't seem to think that their homebirth plans have been horribly risky.

I think birth must be different for everyone. There's a luck of the draw aspect, but I think there's something to be said for stacking the deck in your favor with preparation. Going into it with a positive outlook, and relaxing into it can only help -- I've heard amazing things about hypnobirthing. If you can get in water for part of your labor, do.

I think birth must be different for everyone.

I agree completely. I've heard people rave about water for easing labor and for me it didn't really help and I did better off out of the water. I have to think that water is very soothing for a lot of people based on what I have heard. There is just a huge variability in people's bodies and experiences, IMO.

Alison -- were you in the hospital or a birthing center attached to the hospital? My cousin delivered at a birthing center and I think it was relaxing and for the most part what she wanted (except the driving to the hospital part). And she had the benefit of it being attached to the hospital in case she needed some rapid intervention.

It is what it is and you won't know what yours is like 'til you get there. Good thing, too, or most of us would opt out. ITA with Nellie about how it's different for different people - so try not to stress about it until you're there. (Easier said than done, I know).

As for Alison's note - I'm sure a positive outlook will help, and an idea of how you want it to go. I'd just caution you away from trying to plan it all out (not that Alison did this) and becoming extremely attached to that plan. As Kris' posts noted - what you thought you want may fly out the window when you're in the middle of it, and I've known quite a few people who've had very detailed birth plans and then were crushed when it didn't go as planned.

Just like with a wedding day - in the end you want to be married. Well, at the end of labor, you want a healthy baby and mom, and whatever has to happen to get you there is what needs to happen that day.

You'll be fine. We all survived (and many of us have gone back for seconds, thirds, fourths .... fifths! )

[mommax3]

I really think it all depends on the woman. I am totally in favor of epidurals, and had one as soon as it was offered with my first. With my second, for whatever reason, the epidural numbed me from my knees to the tops of my thighs, but that was it. They tried several times to fix it, but numb legs was the best it got. Meanwhile, my contractions were quickly getting stronger and coming closer together......this wasn't my first baby, after all, and things were moving right along! I was *uncomfortable* and sweating a lot, but the breathing (that I somehow remembered from childbirth class 3+ years before) helped me get through it. I never felt like I was going to just start screaming, although tears were running down my face.

Then came time to push.

I pushed *once* and I knew if I had to push that baby out, there would be a lot of screaming. I got a spinal. Two pushes later, DS#2 was in my arms. So, it wasn't the contractions that were the problem for me.......but I really think there are as many experiences as there are women.

Sally

[migirl]

It is what it is and you won't know what yours is like 'til you get there.

Every woman's experience is so different, you just have no idea what it's going to be like until you get there. I have a friend who was in labor with her first baby for under 7 hours, and pushed him out in minutes. I have another friend who had an induction that lasted for FOUR DAYS, and still ended up with a C-section!

Just like with a wedding day - in the end you want to be married. Well, at the end of labor, you want a healthy baby and mom, and whatever has to happen to get you there is what needs to happen that day.

ITA. I'll spare you the details of my birth experience, but I had also planned to try a natural childbirth but ... I had to be induced due to developing severe pre-eclampsia at 39 weeks and then during labor a whole bunch of other stuff went wrong and finally ... I ended up with an unplanned C-section. Was it what I wanted? Heck no. I still look back sometimes and wish it could have the gone the way I'd pictured it in my head, I felt a huge sense of failure for not being able to give birth the 'normal' way. BUT, Jenn is right. My baby and I both emerged from the whole ordeal healthy and happy, and that is what matters in the end.

Good luck, Christine, you'll do great!