Doctor/Lawyer Couples

[MrsK]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

I'm a Commercial Real Estate/Lending Transactional type. I think there has to be some way to achieve balance in the profession. Otherwise, we'll be loosing women and men in droves. . . .

Is there anybody out there that has managed to relocate a law career without leaving private pratice?

[JaneDoe]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

I just saw this thread. I am/was a lawyer. (I'm never sure how to phrase my status). Anyway, I was licensed in PA and when we moved to Oregon for Dh's job I would have been required to take the bar exam again. After having my dd, however, I realized that my focus was at home and not on my job. So, after I had my ds, I opted to stay and home with my kids. I have not regretted one moment of it. I plan to return to work someday when my kids are older.

I chose to the resign from the PA Bar becaues I knew I would never practice there again. I clerked for a state trial judge right out of law school and then I went to work for the Pennsylvania Deptartment of Labor and Industry, doing labor and employment law.

[houseelf]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

Late response. I'm in Cinci and currently hold inactive status licenses in both OH and MN. There is a very good chance that we will end up in either locale. :huh:

By the way, I firmly believe that if you have great passion for the law you really should practice. If you deny yourself a great passion, it will seep out of you miserably and filter into every aspect of your life. I didn't have this so it wasn't difficult for me to walk away.

Kelly

[JaneDoe]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

By the way, I firmly believe that if you have great passion for the law you really should practice. If you deny yourself a great passion, it will seep out of you miserably and filter into every aspect of your life. I didn't have this so it wasn't difficult for me to walk away.

Kelly

This is true for me too. I received little to no satisfaction from my job. Sadly, I had more of a clock-punching mentality.

[Laker]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

I am an attorney and had to follow DW to FL for residency. I only took the FL bar so don't have any experience with admission on waiver. Unfortunately, if we decide to leave FL after residency, I will more than likely have to take another bar as FL doesn't have reciprocity with anyone else...or most states that would accept me require 5 of the last 7 years of practice...problem is that the residency is only 4 years...so I am pretty much screwed. As for taking a step back...not really for me. We were in Michigan, and the job market sucks there, so I am probably doing better here in FL than I would have in MI. Big law was never in the plans...so following her around hasn't really been a problem for me...until if/when I have to take another bar. Other than that, I hope to be working as a solo or with a partner in the future. I need to have the flexibility especially when we decide to have kids.

So in sum, it sucks, but she's worth it

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

Good to see this here. I am still in law school and going to take the bar this July. I was also wondering how hard it is to move around (if need be) when my DH down the road gets matched into his particular residency. Is there anyway to put in preferences or is the match system for residencies totally random? Also, is reciprocity generally 5 years of practice and then admission into another state's bar? Im taking the CT bar, and starting practice in CT.

[MrsK]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

Good to see this here. I am still in law school and going to take the bar this July. I was also wondering how hard it is to move around (if need be) when my DH down the road gets matched into his particular residency. Is there anyway to put in preferences or is the match system for residencies totally random? Also, is reciprocity generally 5 years of practice and then admission into another state's bar? Im taking the CT bar, and starting practice in CT.

Okay, there's a lot to cover here so you may want to PM me. Personally, I've found it very difficult to relocate. I've been practicing for 10 years and I became a partner in a national law firm 2 years ago. I am licenced in FL. FL does not allow admission without an exam so I cannot be admitted on motion/application to any states that have reciprocity requirements.

People are often confused about this. Reciprocity means that "if you let us in we let you in." Since FL does not let anyone in, I needed to find states that do not have the reciprocity requirement. Although the Match seems very random, you do get to rank programs in your order of preference -- but there are no gurantees. About 2 years ago, I got together with another MD/JD couple and we researched the admission requirements for all 50 states. There are 31 states that are grouped together for reciprocity and share the same requirements for admission without exam. Then the rest either do not allow admission without exam or have their own requirements for admission without exam. Some of those also require reciprocity or some form of it for admission without exam. There were only 11 states that allowed admission without exam and did not have any reciprocity requirement. These states each have their own admission requirements and I believe that all of them (except maybe D.C.) required a certain number of years of practice for admission without exam. Usually it was 5 or 7 years.

My husband and I are outside the Match (that's a whole other long story). But when interviewing and if he were ranking programs, my husband would give priority to programs that are in admission without exam states. However, I am very reluctant to limit his options so he has intereviewed at some programs in states that do not have admission without exam.

We landed in Ohio for internship. OH allows admission without exam and does not require reciprocity. This is one of the better scenieros for us. However, the admission without exam process takes 6 to 8 months! This is not including the 2 months needed to gather up all the information, fingerprints, transcripts, affidavits, etc. for the application. Some other states may have a shorter timeline. I have applied for admission but in the meanwhile I'm still working in FL. I have been commuting for my work and have been apart from my husband for 2 weeks at a time and scrambling to cram as much work as possible into my time in FL and relying on my partners to keep my clients happy while I'm away. It's taken a lot of juggling to provide consistent service to my clients. (In some ways, I've been lucky that this has been a slow year in my field.) Once admitted, I can relocate my practice to OH but I expect that will have its own challenges.

I've been fortunate that my firm is accomidating me. If I had not been there for 10 years and if they had not been involved and informed by us during this process, I would probably be clerking at an OH law firm pending my admission. I know at least one other MD/JD couple that has moved to three different states for medical training (internship, residency, and fellowship). The JD is "younger" in the practice than I am and he's taken bar exams in each of the 3 states since he was not eligible for admission without exam. However, he has never had an interruption in his work and has always had a job at a law firm. Although relocation has not been easy for him, it may have been easier for him than it was for me because he was less established in his career.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

. . . he's taken bar exams in each of the 3 states since he was not eligible for admission without exam. . .

Oh, man...now THAT is a supportive spouse. Saint!

There is no way I would do that. Ever. I told DH, "Match wherever you want...but keep in mind when you're ranking programs: I will not retake the bar. So you need to either go to a state where I could waive-in through reciprocity or has a low-enough cost-of-living so that I don't have to work. But I ain't sitting for another bar." And he knew that I meant that.

So USCF was pretty much ruled out (no reciprocity and very high cost of living!)!! Then, weirdly, I ended up working as a fed law clerk, so I never even needed to get licensed here, as long as I kept up my TX license. Go figure.

[MrsK]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

. . . he's taken bar exams in each of the 3 states since he was not eligible for admission without exam. . .

Oh, man...now THAT is a supportive spouse. Saint!

I don't think he had much choice. He graduated from law school just about the same time as she finished medical school. Then took the exam in State #1 where she did her internship. When they had to move for residency, he was only one year into practice so he was not eligible for admission without exam anywhere so he had to take the exam in State #2. When they had to move for fellowship, he still was not eligible for admission without exam anywhere because he'd been practicing for less than five years AND they were moving to FL where admission without is exam is not available so he had to take the exam for State #3.

[Bittersweet]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

The JD is "younger" in the practice than I am and he's taken bar exams in each of the 3 states since he was not eligible for admission without exam.

Yep, that will probably be me. I’m studying for Bar Exam #1 (god help me) for my current state. After the match I’ll begin studying for Bar Exam #2 for whichever state the match dictates and will likely have to embark on Bar Exam #3 in another three years for Dh's fellowship. I’ve reconciled with the idea that I’ll be doing this multiple times. I’m far from thrilled … such is life.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

The JD is "younger" in the practice than I am and he's taken bar exams in each of the 3 states since he was not eligible for admission without exam.

Yep, that will probably be me. I’m studying for Bar Exam #1 (god help me) for my current state. After the match I’ll begin studying for Bar Exam #2 for whichever state the match dictates and will likely have to embark on Bar Exam #3 in another three years for Dh's fellowship. I’ve reconciled with the idea that I’ll be doing this multiple times. I’m far from thrilled … such is life.

Do we have a "I am so impressed--I could never do that--it would lead to divorce or murder" emoticon???

Good luck!

[DCJenn]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

My friend's husband was licensed in Oregon and TX. She was military (peds). She listed only West Coast Air Force Bases since he was already in OR and I believe they have reciprocity with WA. Nonetheless, he took the bar in Idaho, California and New Mexico.

Yeah, that was GREAT when the AF decided to send them to OK.

Jenn

(PS- they FREAKED out on the assignments officer because in addition, he was a JAG reservist and the OK AFB had no JAG reserves. So, things got switched around and they ended up at an AFB in TX.)

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

.

Okay, there's a lot to cover here so you may want to PM me. Personally, I've found it very difficult to relocate. I've been practicing for 10 years and I became a partner in a national law firm 2 years ago. I am licenced in FL. FL does not allow admission without an exam so I cannot be admitted on motion/application to any states that have reciprocity requirements.

People are often confused about this. Reciprocity means that "if you let us in we let you in." Since FL does not let anyone in, I needed to find states that do not have the reciprocity requirement. Although the Match seems very random, you do get to rank programs in your order of preference -- but there are no gurantees. About 2 years ago, I got together with another MD/JD couple and we researched the admission requirements for all 50 states. There are 31 states that are grouped together for reciprocity and share the same requirements for admission without exam. Then the rest either do not allow admission without exam or have their own requirements for admission without exam. Some of those also require reciprocity or some form of it for admission without exam. There were only 11 states that allowed admission without exam and did not have any reciprocity requirement. These states each have their own admission requirements and I believe that all of them (except maybe D.C.) required a certain number of years of practice for admission without exam. Usually it was 5 or 7 years.

My husband and I are outside the Match (that's a whole other long story). But when interviewing and if he were ranking programs, my husband would give priority to programs that are in admission without exam states. However, I am very reluctant to limit his options so he has intereviewed at some programs in states that do not have admission without exam.

We landed in Ohio for internship. OH allows admission without exam and does not require reciprocity. This is one of the better scenieros for us. However, the admission without exam process takes 6 to 8 months! This is not including the 2 months needed to gather up all the information, fingerprints, transcripts, affidavits, etc. for the application. Some other states may have a shorter timeline. I have applied for admission but in the meanwhile I'm still working in FL. I have been commuting for my work and have been apart from my husband for 2 weeks at a time and scrambling to cram as much work as possible into my time in FL and relying on my partners to keep my clients happy while I'm away. It's taken a lot of juggling to provide consistent service to my clients. (In some ways, I've been lucky that this has been a slow year in my field.) Once admitted, I can relocate my practice to OH but I expect that will have its own challenges.

I've been fortunate that my firm is accomidating me. If I had not been there for 10 years and if they had not been involved and informed by us during this process, I would probably be clerking at an OH law firm pending my admission. I know at least one other MD/JD couple that has moved to three different states for medical training (internship, residency, and fellowship). The JD is "younger" in the practice than I am and he's taken bar exams in each of the 3 states since he was not eligible for admission without exam. However, he has never had an interruption in his work and has always had a job at a law firm. Although relocation has not been easy for him, it may have been easier for him than it was for me because he was less established in his career.

Thanks Mrs.K this was a very helpful post. I've just started thinking about this issue because I am thinking about which bar exams to take, and since the firm I am starting with encourages us to take more than one bar AND PAYS for it (in the states we have offices in) I was considering maybe taking the New York bar as well but I think that would restrict me in terms of reciprocity, since I believe NY does not have reciprocity and I would have the same problem you did. I know that Connecticut does not have such a restriction (like FL and I believe Nevada too) and has reciprocity. I think I would only have (hopefully) 3 years experience tops before I my DH starts to look into residency options. God bless people who are taking 3 bar exams to stay with their spouses! I would rather not relocate over and over again. I love the office I am going into and the wealth of experience everyone has at that office is huge-our office is mostly partners, and they just started hiring junior associates. Everyone has been wonderful (so far, knock on wood) in teaching me about the practice of law. I also specifically chose the office I am in because its on the CT/ NY border and there would be more options as to internship and residency (which may or may not work out!). I also want to see if anyone else has had experiences with moving around and it seems like its hard but not impossible. Not for the faint of heart! I will definitely pm you Mrs. K when I have more specific questions. So I gather that taking a non-restrictive bar is better because of flexibility of moving and hopefully waiving into states? I don't have to think about this JUST yet on my DH side, but at least on my end for taking the bar, I was debating on what to do. I think I'm just going to stick with taking the CT bar.

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

Oh yeah, and what about changing names after marriage and the bar admission process? I am thinking about changing after the bar admission process. I have heard it gets more complicated if you do change your name around when you apply for the bar?

[MrsK]

Re: Doctor/Lawyer Couples

Oh yeah, and what about changing names after marriage and the bar admission process? I am thinking about changing after the bar admission process. I have heard it gets more complicated if you do change your name around when you apply for the bar?

Hi! Glad I can help. I'd recommend taking the exam where you are working and then wait and see. You may be able to transfer to another office within the same firm or you may get to stay put. There really isn't any point in taking multiple bar exams at this point. And regardless of whether you are admitted in a reciprocity state, you may still find yourself in a state that does not allow admission or motion or in a state where you just haven't practiced long enough to waive in. Taking the exam is pretty miserable and even if your firm is paying for you to take it, they probably won't be paying your annual dues or CLE if you are not actively practicing in the additional jurisdictions.

As for changing your name. . . I changed my name when I got married legally and in my personal life. In FL, I can practice law under a different name if I choose. When I married, I had 9 years of documents recorded in the public records with my name on them but no bar number listed on the documents. Unlike litigators, transactional attorneys rarely put their bar numbers on documents. Also, I had publications and had served on numerous boards using my maiden name. I was worried that if I changed my name all together, I would untraceable in the event that anyone ever needed to contact me regarding an old transaction, publication, or appointment. So, for the purposes of my FL bar license only, I use my maiden name and my married name, no hyphen (as in Jane Doe Smith) while socially I use my husband's name only (as in Jane Michelle Smith). It was super easy to do the paperwork with the Bar once I decided to make the change. I think I just sent them a letter and it was done.

However, still, and especially when dealing with people in my firm's satellite offices, I get blank looks when I use my married name. And sometimes office services even tells people that I don't work there. This is very strange for me because prior to becoming a partner, I ran our firm's charitable foundation and coordinated pro bono and volunteer projects for employees in all of our offices nationally. I used to send weekly newsletters to all the employees, run monthly fundraisers, and made presentations at every new employee orientation. I was extremely visable and everybody knew my name. Now, I have a new name and I'm commuting so I'm not physically in the office a lot so it's like I've vanished. It's been almost a year and I still have this silly introduction that goes like this . . . "I'm Jane Smith" (wait a few beats) "I used to be Jane Doe." Response: sudden recognition concurrent with "Ohhhh, you're the Fund Lady."

However, as you will be just starting your career when you marry, changing your name professionally probably won't have as big an impact. If I were you, I'd just use whatever name you'd like. I'm not sure how the timing will affect the bar admission process. That may depend on your state so I'd recommend that you discuss it with the state's board of bar admissions. I was moving and applying for the OH bar when I changed my name. I actually called the state bar admissions office and asked them "what is my name?" because I have two names and didn't know which to use for my application. . . funny, it sounds like I have an alias!