Can Women Have it ALL?

This is in keeping with Kelly and Sally's response to the previous post...

My answer to this question: NO. But this answer comes as a surprise to me because I used to believe it to be yes. But for the most part, my observations are that working moms are exhausted and feel guilty and many stay-at-home moms feel underappreciated, and are exhausted too. Many women end up choosing either career or children and those who don't struggle to find a balance. To top it off, we have all of these mommy wars going on and we aren't helping each other in that way...

Now to the rant:

Most men CAN and DO have it all, and this unfairness is flying in my face lately. No one blames the dad working 100+ hours/week for a child's acting out behavior or difficulties in school. It is expected that we as women will support our men with a smile on our faces through med school, residency, fellowship, etc..and will give up our own lives to do so. Those who complain are looked down on.

Men can pick a career and climb the ladder regardless of the stress that it causes on a family and if the family doesn't end up holding up to the stress, they can start a new one...and many do...They hit a certain point in their lives, look back and say...I want more, or something different, and they grab it....many just don't have the same responsibility for their children that we do as women...and then at the end of the day, if we've given up our lives and career where are we?


Kris

I hope that you all recognize this as a philosophical discussion and a bit of a devil's advocate approach to my thought process lately....and not me trying to alienate or provoke anyone...I'm just searching for the meaning of life in my own way...


Kris

[houseelf]

Kris,

I know that all women (myself included) have passionate feelings about this because the options aren't fair. I know, I know, life isn't fair. Anyway, it comes out as if we're cutting one another down when really we need to be each other's biggest ally. Don't be afraid because you have strong feelings and you feel conflicted. I think that somewhere, deep down, we all feel this way.

Kelly

I feel guilty even confessing to these feelings...the debate is running in my head..erase post, keep post, erase post, keep post....do I admit to my feelings or not.

The bottom line is that I WANT to find a middle ground..I want to be able to find a fulfilling profession that I can work in from 8am-2pm...then I want to come home before the school bus, greet my offspring with cookies and milk, do homework, play boardgames and...feel fulfillled in all areas. The fact that there is no middle ground for the most part unless I compromise my own interests, goals etc...is causing me a great deal of frustration...

I AM happy with what I have...I love my children, I am happy and satisfied with the choices that I've made with mothering for the most part ....and I feel GUILTY for wanting more for me and for not having the maturity to delay this gratification for a few more years (though I'll have to). Mothering is supposed to be the ultimate rewarding profession. Yet, I have this fear....like some women hear a biological clock ticking..I hear the career clock ticking....and I feel sort of lost.....

Kris

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I obviously made a choice to raise my kids as my primary job at this point in my life, with the expectation that the window will always be open after they get older for me to do whatever other career(s) I choose. Now, I am debating when exactly to get the ball rolling on that subject.... Should I go back to school once my youngest starts school? Or should I wait until the youngest is a bit older so I can time my joining the work force when she's a teenager? Or should I do it even later so I don't enter the workforce and really sink myself into another career until after the last child is an adult? I can name pros and cons for all of those options. Ultimately since people are more important than money or worldly success to me, my children's needs will dictate which of these I choose. Then I have a conflict over the fact that I've decided what I should do with the rest of my life once I do go back to school - and it's not what I always "wanted to be when I grew up". It kind of surprised my husband in a way, too. Which leads me to my other conflict: after investing so much of myself into the success of my husband's career I really do not want to hurt his career in any way because of my career ambitions (ie when I start graduate school I want to go to a darned good one for my field - what if it is far away from where he has his job? Do I make him quit and find a possibly less career-wise position or take a pay-cut in order to move near where I want to be? What if he is still in the military and his career doesn't let him move according to my desires?). So, I have all of these what-if's raging in my head and I've got at least a good five years before I act on any of this. I suppose that is a good thing - it'll give me time to think and see which way the wind is blowing. Nope, men really don't have these same conundrums!

Jennifer

Well, and maybe the answer, Jennifer, is that we can have it all, but just not all at once?

Thomas and I talked about this alot this weekend. Obviously, if I really wanted a full-time job or to go on with my graduate education, I'd drive to Minneapolis every day...and I'm not doing that...I WANT to be at home right now with the kids, but I also need to find a way to be happier doing it because I definately believe that my mothering has suffered some serious blows since we moved....This could also be a function of reaching out and developing a support network, which is slowly coming together. Also, I think part of it just simply accepting that this is the decision that I've made regardless of what I always "thought" I'd be doing.

When is a good time to pursue career interests though? That is a serious question for women, I think....It definately does not get easier as the kids get older. I had an illusion that once they were school-aged things would be easier...What I'm finding is that they need more of my time and attention and we've had these unexpected issues like Finny's difficulty learning the alphabet, etc....If you're thinking about homeschooling, that puts another kink in the whole thing. I think it is harder to break into the career world when you're older, depending on what you decide to do. I know that even at the ripe old age of almost 32, I'd have trouble being taken seriously by a PhD program because of certian traditiona ideas....I think women do have it harder than men in this regard.

For me in terms of career planning, I've made a big decision this weekend...and that is to wait until Alex is in Kindergarten before making any more decisions or going back to school. I'm going to take some distance classes for fun (only what interests me to keep things moving) and not make any decisions for a few more years. The bottom line is that I don't even feel certain of my career goals anymore...where I used to believe that I'd return to my med school plans one day, I now find myself in serious doubt about that option because of our family's experience with Thomas' training years. Thomas told me this weekend that once we reach that point, that he will do whatever we need...including moving....that's a big step for us. He told me that he wants me to be happy and I think that he even has surprised himself by his willingness to sacrifice certain things now.

So SPILL it...what do you want to be when you grow up?

This is really turning into an interesting discussion.

Kris

[DCJenn]

It a big giant mess, isn't it!

My mom stayed home with us until my brother was in junior high- then she got a job at the local department store that allowed her to be home by 3pm. After I had left for school and he was in high school she made her way in to the corporate world- finally ending up as the Director for Human Resources. Which, she discovered that she really didn't like- so now she's a Admin Asst. and has the freedom to take time off to go play with my dad pretty much whenever she wants.

But she will also admit that the pressure to work wasn't something that she had anticipated. She really liked staying at home. Although she really likes having her own money, now!

I have a very good friend who was three classes away from her Master's at Johns Hopkins when she had her first child. She's a SAHM and loves it and now that her youngest is 3, she's taking classes at her local community college and planning on a career change now.

I love what I do- and am very happy that I get to do it. and I can't imagine having a child and not wanting to spend time with that child, as well. But maybe that's not in the cards for us- at lesat for the moment. Oh well, I'll complete this thought later- there's the boss!

Jenn

So, what do I want to be when I grow up? I originally always planned on being an architect - from the time I was ten to be precise. I was attracted by it because I can manipulate objects in my head pretty well and have a knack for putting things together mentally and then "building" them - or even translating something from two dimensions to three dimensions pretty easily. I was a Legos kid, obviously! Anyway, the older I get the more I realize I want a law degree. I don't know what type of law I'd like to specialize in - just like my husband didn't know what type of medicine he would go into when he decided to apply to medical school. I suppose it is the same in some respects. I just know that I LOVE to research and I am fairly good at writing/communicating (don't take my posts as proof of that, though! ). I also really enjoy political science and nitpicky statistics and stuff like that. The clincher for me of late has been the disgust I've had with the state of the law in this country and the obscene manipulations of the legal system. There is a monument in Washington DC that inspired a close family friend to apply for and get the position of my hometown's chief of police. The inscription says something to the effect of "Wicked men succeed because good men let them." or something like that. It made me really start thinking that I can't just sit around on my rear end after my kids are grown. (Let me also add, though, that of all the lawyers I've known personally as family friends they have all been wonderful, morally upstanding individuals - but I've only personally known three in my life). So, at some point, I want to go to law school.

HOWEVER, now that my darned mil has put into my head this last weekend that perhaps I should go into design - just a different form than I intended originally (fashion rather than architecture) I can't get the thought out of my head. I think I need to just look at it like she was stroking my ego (maybe to get on my good side? ). I think the design thing is a pipe dream. So, maybe, someday, I might be a lawyer - but I want to go to a competitive law school. I don't want to be viewed as some mommy lawer who had nothing better to do with her time- I really want to kick booty when I do something like this! OK, I'm rambling again, but its late and I am just writing string of thought now. sigh....

Jennifer

Jennifer:
Hey, if J.Lo can be a fashion designer, you can too! I'm *kidding*!! I just had to throw that in there! It infuriates me how just because someone is a "celebrity" then they think they just happen to be talented in film, television, fashion design, AND music! But I would seriously consider doing that. It sounds like you are very talented and nothing is better than getting the bucks for something that you love to do and comes naturally! It's also something that you could do from home. I am all about finding careers that you can do from your home lately - somehow I think that you might be closer to having it all if you can have your kids and your career in the same location!? I also applaud your plan to attend law school in the future. You go, woman!
I love hearing about what everyone would "be" if the situation was different. I've thought about it a bit more and I am still sticking with my original answer, you can't have it all. I think you just have to make choices that you can live with and more so, be happy with. If I had not married my husband, I would be so chasing the film industry career. We lived close to Wilmington, NC which is a small time Hollywood and it would have been such a great place to get a job as a production assistant or something and move on up the ladder. Who knows, maybe we will move there someday but then the age-ism will be against me. That industry is verrry much a twenty-thirtysomething field. I had my job in TV back "home" and now I am in this city where there are NO media jobs open. Not to mention that we are going to move every two years for the next few years! So, basically I am chalking up that one. I made a choice for the man and I don't regret it at all. But I am way off topic b/c the topic is how we have to choose between mommyhood and power careers.

I have to agree that the older I get I think no, women can't have it all. I'm kind of in a similar situation to Kris in I've been considering whether to apply to medical school again. The family sacrifices and inflexibility of the schedule seem so discouraging. I'm fascinated by medicine but I just don't know if I want to make that sort of committment. I know that family time is a factor. It's hard, though, because medicine is so hierarchical still. Doctors are still viewed as the top of the food chain, even though nurses also requires hard work, intelligence and independent assessment. I'm considering becoming a nurse practitioner, because one of my interests is providing better education in preventative care settings, but it frustrates me sometimes to feel like I'm following in the stereotypical female role.

I think men have a much easier time making those sorts of decisions, some of it because historically men were expected to be the breadwinner and push forward. Women are bucking the tradition of being there for the family, and jobs aren't flexible enough yet to have the best of both worlds. Yet there is also societal pressure that for a woman to be successful she needs to be in a more high powered career. No wonder we are confused!

[Phoebe]

I don't know that I have ever met a female who has accomplished all they wanted for themselves and as a mother without feeling guilt or inadequacy at some point. Kris mentioned something in another post that pretty much sums it all up for me- balance. I think balance in my personal and home life is the key to my happiness. How do I achieve this? I have no clue!

Juggling a part-time job, being at home with my daughter and taking care of family responsibilities is time consuming, exhausting work. I haven't figured out how to make it work with everything else I want to do (work out, read, visit friends, attend playgroups). I think I need some tips from Jennifer! Please tell me how you take care of 4 small children, sew all your kids clothes, work out, know so much about everything and still get sleep at night!

What do I want to be when I grow up? a great mom and wife, crafty like Martha Stewart, a great cook, and a marathon runner. Careerwise, I think I would like to be a school psychologist. I can have a flexible schedule that will allow time for my children. I still have to do some investigating to make a final decision. Whatever it is, I want to return to school for another masters or my doctorate.

Do I really think I will be able to do all these things? Being a great cook is probably out of the question. That takes talent. My mom finished college once her kids were in school full days. She was usually home when we got home from school and studied after we went to bed. That must have been hard for her to keep those kind of hours especially because my dad wasn't home very much to help out. I feel lucky to have a supportive husband who respects my ambition to further my education.

Right now my child is the top priority for me and I feel I need to be at home with her even if I complain about it at times. Over Easter, I was visiting my dad and he was asking me about my part-time job as a research assistant. He told me I should go work at Walmart as if I couldn't get a good paying job. I felt very offended because he thinks I should be out making money (that is his ultimate goal in life). I had to remind him that part of my choice to take the job I have was so I could stay at home with our daughter.

Kris- I am glad that you came to a decision about working when Alex starts school and that Thomas is behind you 100%. It must be a load off your mind.

Jennifer- I think in the least you should write a book or you could design a whole new line of maternity clothes. That could finance your law education.

Sorry this is so long.

Jennifer

[houseelf]

Jennifer S.- For whatever it is worth, I think that you would be a gifted attorney. You are articulate, energetic, and passionate and these attributes would serve you well. However, if you do start a maternity line of fashion, think about including petite sizes!

Kris- Go for it. Seriously, if you don't get the first job that you apply for, try again. We each have to create our own lives and make decisions that meet our needs.

Jennifer B.- I think that we want to be almost the same people when we grow up! Seriously, I want to be a career university student taking a few classes each semester. I also want to run a marathon *someday*. As far as making a contribution to the working world, I want to advocate for children's interests, sort of similar to becoming a school psychologist. Somehow, all of these things are evading me right now. I guess that I will have to tackle these one by one.... Balance nowadays means getting a shower before I go to work!

Kelly