Retirement to speak of?

[spotty_dog]

doctors in general are horrible financial planners. as for retirements, i found the best thing is to open up lots of different products - 401k, 403, 529, ira, roth ira and pension plan-- but it's a pain to manage all the different products. this way, one of them would bound to work. for me, before i had kids, i max out on the 401k, ira, roth ira and 529. some of products work out well--and others did not. i lost 1k in 529 for dw's school fund. ira/roth ira barely break even--after 8 yrs. 401k is up 9% annualized--so that was the big winner-- mostly because i keep on putting 12% per yr + company match 6% every yr. of course now i have kids/mortgage, i don't put anything into retirement funds-- it's not priority for me. kids needs/expenses come first before my retirement.

So, for what it's worth, the issues with some of your investments underperforming others didn't have anything to do with the buckets you put the money in (the IRA, 529, etc.) Your asset allocation is up to you, and if your investing choices were ill-advised, well then there's no time like the present to learn more and hopefully get better performance in the future!

[weeniegeniewife]

So, for what it's worth, the issues with some of your investments underperforming others didn't have anything to do with the buckets you put the money in (the IRA, 529, etc.) Your asset allocation is up to you, and if your investing choices were ill-advised, well then there's no time like the present to learn more and hopefully get better performance in the future!

So true.

[metroguy]

knowledge doesn't imply greater returns. i know most of the products. the biggest problems are life and market volatility. life--because i was too busy/depress/scare to reallocate my various holdings. the mark was volatile (aka just kept going down), i did not opening the various mail for months. i have realize stock loss of over 300k because i refuse to sell the holdings--about 50% of my holdings went bankrupt. the 401k did well because i kept investing via payroll vs ira's/stocks where i had to activity manage it. managing losing positions was too depressing. if i look at it, half my net worth is in retirement accounts vs personal holdings because my stock picking ability has been very poor. i used to put in 15k in retirement money and 30-50k in stock per year. after a dozen yrs, the retirement money is approaching stock fund.

[spotty_dog]

knowledge doesn't imply greater returns. i know most of the products. the biggest problems are life and market volatility. life--because i was too busy/depress/scare to reallocate my various holdings. the mark was volatile (aka just kept going down), i did not opening the various mail for months. i have realize stock loss of over 300k because i refuse to sell the holdings--about 50% of my holdings went bankrupt. the 401k did well because i kept investing via payroll vs ira's/stocks where i had to activity manage it. managing losing positions was too depressing. if i look at it, half my net worth is in retirement accounts vs personal holdings because my stock picking ability has been very poor. i used to put in 15k in retirement money and 30-50k in stock per year. after a dozen yrs, the retirement money is approaching stock fund.

Investing can really get emotional, and experiencing heavy losses is definitely painful, I hear you there. But with a sound investment strategy you don't have to make the tough decisions when the stakes are high, because you've pre-determined them in your investment policy statement. And a sign of a good strategy is one that does NOT make you dread opening your mail. If you are freaking out at your losses, you are holding too much exposure to equity.

I guess I'm just shocked that being burned (on highly risky investments during a massive recession) in the market, plus kids and a mortgage, would cause you to slam on the brakes and go from $65k to $0 of contributions. You will never get that employer match or that tax-preferred space back. I think that if you learned more about why your 401(k) funds performed adequately (the return is not determined by the regularity of contributions, but by the strength of the underlying investments, BTW) then you could learn how to get similar results across your whole retirement portfolio (401(k), IRAs, taxable retirement money) and non-retirement funds (529s, taxable short-term savings), and that might give you the confidence to get back on that horse.

[metroguy]

you're right, i have become chicken terms of investing. mortgage, kids and layoff really affect my mental health. basically, i don't invest much and let everything sit in cash. it doesn't generate anything but at least it's safe. it doesn't help that my wife doesn't believe in stocks. she saw i been investing/gambling since 1996 and have yet to generate a positive return. i think my average annual returns is somewhere in the -5 range. that's life being marry. arggh. it's much easier to make decision when there's only one person.

[spotty_dog]

that's life being marry. arggh. it's much easier to make decision when there's only one person.

So true!

[The White Coat Investor]

I barely know what a 401K is, but I know most of my friends have already started on and regularly contribute to their retirement. That's not so much an option for us. When we worked for the public NC hospital, as employees each month we had a minimum amount put into a state retirement account and the university matched it. It wasn't much, but we didn't have to think about it. Of course, when this whole journey/circus started, we both cashed it out as we needed the money way more know than in 40 years. Plus, it wasn't much. About $3500 between the two of us.

Clearly, DH makes nothing. I work, again, for the state by working for the University/SOM, so an automatic amount of retirement is again put into the VA Retirement System for me. Frankly, we don't think about trying to allot more to it each month. We don't really have the ability to. And as soon as we move (or I guess, IF we move for residency), we'll probably be cashing that out too.

Is it normal to not have much retirement/savings to speak of at this juncture? Is it just a huge game of catch up once you're a dual-income (or at least a sizeable single income) family?

Yes, it is normal. Med school is not a time to be contributing to retirement. Try to minimize your loans as much as you can. Squeak your way through residency making IBR payments and putting a little money into Roth IRAs, then when you hit the big income, DON'T INCREASE YOUR LIFESTYLE (much) for 2-5 years. That's when you pay off all the loans and stuff those retirement accounts full and save up the downpayment for the dream house. Then, after 5 years, you can live like a doctor's family.

[Meenah]

knowledge doesn't imply greater returns. i know most of the products. the biggest problems are life and market volatility. life--because i was too busy/depress/scare to reallocate my various holdings. the mark was volatile (aka just kept going down), i did not opening the various mail for months. i have realize stock loss of over 300k because i refuse to sell the holdings--about 50% of my holdings went bankrupt. the 401k did well because i kept investing via payroll vs ira's/stocks where i had to activity manage it. managing losing positions was too depressing. if i look at it, half my net worth is in retirement accounts vs personal holdings because my stock picking ability has been very poor. i used to put in 15k in retirement money and 30-50k in stock per year. after a dozen yrs, the retirement money is approaching stock fund.

Please find a good financial planner!!!!! We were way behind the eight ball with this when we got married. We were both divorced and had four kids between us to put through college, and I went back to Grad school. We made a lot of financial mistakes and we are still way behind due to many things (including long time embezzlement from DH's former office manager) but we now have a financial planner who is helping us. We have a long way to go, but at least we have a plan and someone who is objective to guide us.

[houseelf]

Hey, is that THE white coat investor stopping by our humble website? I'm a huge fan, sir! Keep up the good work.

[JDAZ11]

Hey, is that THE white coat investor stopping by our humble website? I'm a huge fan, sir! Keep up the good work.

Ditto.

[PrincessFiona]

Welcome, White Coat Investor! Don't forget to pop into the introductions area and tell us a little about yourself.

Kris

[MAPPLEBUM]

WPW, through another thread I just realized this week that DH is going to have to go through another round of interviews for fellowship (aka spend lots of money on flights and possibly moving). We were still dating through residency interviews so I didn't pay much attention / have a say in how he paid for them. We have almost two years until the next round of interviews, that's the same for you, right? You're already thinking ahead which means you don't have to resort to extreme measures. Even setting aside $100 a month for the next two years could be a great help to facing the interview trail/moving. I haven't thought too much about it yet and we are quite strapped between loans and retirement but off the top of my head I'm thinking I'll start a bond fund and contribute $100 a month to it for those expected fellowship expenses.

RE: bond fund. I know this could be a cause for debate but after some long talks with my CFO brother he's suggested we put our rainy day cash into bond funds. We haven't done it yet but I'm almost certain that's what we're going to do. I'll ask him about using the bond fund to save for something we know we'll spend in two years and let you know what he says if you want.

[houseelf]

Um, our fellowship interviews set us back $8,000 in 2007. There are also boards to consider. I can't speak intelligently about the present day cost of each specialty, but I do know that it isn't chump change. I don't mean to scare you, but you might want to focus on keeping debt at bay rather than paying into retirement and then having to put these kind of expenses on CC. Just a thought. YMMV

[MAPPLEBUM]

Um, our fellowship interviews set us back $8,000 in 2007. There are also boards to consider. I can't speak intelligently about the present day cost of each specialty, but I do know that it isn't chump change. I don't mean to scare you, but you might want to focus on keeping debt at bay rather than paying into retirement and then having to put these kind of expenses on CC. Just a thought. YMMV

WOW. In that case we would dip into rainy day. I think he spent more on the level of 3-5k for residency interviews. I have been suggesting staying here/local for fellowship because frankly that would be in my best professional interest but he's one of these "wherever the job takes me" type of guys. Quite the contrast to people who stay at the same program all the way through.

[ladymoreta]

In another thread, I think we established that $20k was a common amount for the transition from residency to attendinghood (for interviews, moving, licensing, etc). There are lots of us who managed it for less, but that's about what our transition cost. Just a heads up... Wish I'd known it.