Michael Jackson

[GrayMatterWife]

Sorry, but I'm still in the "I'm glad he won't be hurting anymore children and why are we acting as though he was some innocent?" camp. Guess I'm in the minority, but I think the entire thing is a bunch of revisionist history detached from reality.

By the way, did anyone else notice that Sherry Jackson Lee (US Rep--TX) completely misquoted the US Constitution in her inane remarks? The entire legal world rolled its eyes. No, dear, the Constitution does NOT provide that people are innocent until proven guilty. That's from a Supreme Court case called Coffin v. US. But thanks for showing a billion people that you have no idea what the most fundamental document in liberal democracy reads. Whatever--the entire bloody stadium cheered. I have no idea if it was because they don't know what is in the Constitution and thought she was brilliant, or if it was because they think that she had some sort of point (as though being found "not guilty" means that you are "innocent"--again, it doesn't. It just means that you were found "not guilty" because there was insufficient evidence to establish your guilty beyond the very high standard of reasonable doubt. No one, of course, is mentioning anything about the millions he doled out in civil suits, to keep people quiet.) But I guess these things like, reality, don't matter much when you can look really emotive and dramatic.

I am kind of tired of people telling me not to speak up (not here...). I realize that it is tacky to malign someone who has passed, but I don't see recognizing reality as spreading lies about the dead. I do think it is ridiculous to lionize a man in death into something he was not in life.

Whatever. It's not like there's any real news going on, like Obama being in Russia.

[GrayMatterWife]

I have a bigger problem with the publicity that Jon and Kate get than an actual entertainer, who was arguably the world's biggest star.

One good thing about all of this Jackson coverage--at least these two idiots have vanished from the news for a while.

[Thirteen]

One good thing about all of this Jackson coverage--at least these two idiots have vanished from the news for a while.

Ayyyyyyyymen.

[bokelley]

Sorry, but I'm still in the "I'm glad he won't be hurting anymore children and why are we acting as though he was some innocent?" camp. Guess I'm in the minority, but I think the entire thing is a bunch of revisionist history detached from reality.

Funny how just a few years ago, he was all over late night TV for being a horrible person. And everyone thought he was "wacko jacko". Now everyone seems to love him again. I know I am in the minority but he is worthless in my book.

You can't even find "real" news anywhere. UGH

[MrsC]

I have a bigger problem with the publicity that Jon and Kate get than an actual entertainer, who was arguably the world's biggest star.

Same here. At least MJ contributed something to society through his music.

The media always crap all over people and then change their tune when they die.
I think it partly because I've seen so many interviews lately with people who actually knew him and say that he was a wonderful person. Why would so many people who know him say that if they thought he was capable of child abuse?

I'm tired of seeing people being judged and ridiculed by people who don't even know them.

[rainbabies]

I read a blog written by a doc. Other docs and medical professionals comment on it. He wrote about MJ and reasons for death. One person wrote something very interesting, that after much thought, could possibly make sense.

He wrote that, joe Jackson could have possibly committed the biggest act of child abuse against MJ. By having him castrated. That could explain so many things. His voice, lack of development, behaving childlike and behavior, etc

Speculation, yes. But very interesting.

[MrsK]

ITA

Also, throughout history there have been many people that have made tremendous contributions to the arts or science or literature or government, etc. Many of those people have also done horrible things or have been accused of doing horrible things. I'm not saying that their contributions excuse horrible actions. But the horrible actions do not negate their contributions to society. Even if you believe that MJ was a child molester (which I do not), that doesn't mean that he was not an incredible entertainer and that he didn't have legitimate influence in the music industry.

ETA: I crossed posts with rainbabies. I was agreeing with MrsC. Though, I must admit. . . MJ as a castrati is an interesting theory. But there was a lot of discussion about examination of his genitals during the molestation trial. Remember his TV statement where he talked about how humiliating that was? If he had been castrated, surely that would have been noted.

[rainbabies]

Could it have been chemically? Or just testicles removed? Then prosthetics later in life? Maybe that's why he isn't the bio father of his children?
Just a thought.

[Momo]

Tragically they reported on CNN that witnesses /sources close to the autopsy, said he had multiple track marks on his arms, and collapsed veins.
They said he was "lilly white" & "white as a t-shirt" from head to toe and that the cause could was undetermined. He was bald, apparently from the horrific burns he suffered on set.

I don't think he was worthless...after all A LOT of folks on this planet were helped because he was extremely generous w/ charitable causes.
ITE I say only God knows whether he was a molester or not. There were "star" witnesses that admitted to lying after the trial..??? Not for me to judge.

[GrayMatterWife]

Even if you believe that MJ was a child molester (which I do not), that doesn't mean that he was not an incredible entertainer and that he didn't have legitimate influence in the music industry.

I don't think anyone is arguing that he wasn't an incredible entertainer. Even if you believe he was a child molester, you can recognize his musical contributions. But, if you believe that he was a child molester, then it is certainly reasonable that listening to his music makes you want to toss your lunch, and makes you less inclined to treat him like a saint after he died. Yes, he gave to charity. That is nice. It would have been nicer if he hadn't hurt children.

People are always saying, "It's not for me to judge." If that's your inclination, I have no problem with that. But, for me, I have no problem looking at the voluminous circumstantial evidence and judging for myself. My judgment, of course, means nothing beyond me, but I certainly entitled to judge. Just as I am free to judge anyone else against whom untoward charges have been made. And, if someone wants to judge me for my judgment, they're entitled to do that, too. That's a risk I take by sharing my judgment.

Of course, it's on me if my judgment is wrong, or if it is a reasonable conclusion but based on false "facts." But I am more than comfortable making this judgment for myself. I am comfortable making this judgment knowing the terrible abuse he suffered as a child. Just because he was abused doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve judgment for the abuse he inflicted.

I'm not sure I have anything constructive to add beyond this, though. I just wanted to give voice to the feelings of, what I believe are, a lot of people, who find this celebration, frankly, a little stomach-churning. But, for those who do not believe that Jackson was a child molester, I can understand why the disgust seems misplaced and unfounded.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Full disclosure: I did not read the entire post.

I don't know if he's guilty of the child molestion. But he is CERTAINLY guilty of questionnable judgement. Bringing a child into your home after you've already been accused, continuing to discuss sharing beds with childrem, hiring a new 12 year old boy (who ended up performing at the service yesterday) to be a part of your act. All questionnable.

I am also appalled that LA is paying for all the police, etc for the Jackson family. They're in debt up to their eyebals. Why shouldn't the family and the promoters pay for that extra security. He's not a head of state, he doesn't need that much hoopla.

One very positive thing I'll say about him: it is extremely refreshing that yesterday was one of the few times that we've ever seen pictures of his kids. He protected those kids and kept them out of the lime light. I'm so sick of celebrities ferrying their kids around LA and then whining when photos are taken; they're exploiting their kids for attention. You're rich and famous, someone else can do your grocery shopping or you can get a nanny during that time. Kids can be sheltered from that world if you want to do so. And to Jackson's credit, he managed to do so.

[Rapunzel]

Joe Jackson having Michael castrated before puberty just puts so many things into place. The voice? The undeveloped body? The apparent inability to have genetic offspring? The bizarre obsession with adolescence? His absolute hatred of his father (totally justifiable regardless of castration)? It really would make a whole lot fall into place.

Remember the trial for molestation where the alleged victim stated he knew some very "unique" things about Jackson's genitalia?

Anyway, if it did come out that his father had castrated him at a young age it would definitely lend quite a bit more sympathy for him in spite of his pathologies.

[Meenah]

I was in the Czech Republic for the past week and on Tuesday every TV station had the funeral on. All the local stations along with CNN & BBC. It was nonstop.

[GrayMatterWife]

I was in the Czech Republic for the past week and on Tuesday every TV station had the funeral on. All the local stations along with CNN & BBC. It was nonstop.

Was he super-popular among the Czechs? (I assume that when David Hasselhoff dies, the entire country of Germany will go into a week-long period of mourning, and when Jerry Lewis dies, the French may become suicidal.)

[Meenah]

I don't know if he was particularly popular there, but it seems he was extremely popular all over the world.