A Humorous Post About Something Not-So-Humorous

[diggitydot]

Holy shit, I totally missed the comments. They're almost as golden as Jenny's writing...

[PrincessFiona]

Holy shit, I totally missed the comments. They're almost as golden as Jenny's writing...

LOL. I read all of them, and I was trying to figure out which comments were yours! LOL

[Cinderella]

[BonBon]

LOL. I read all of them, and I was trying to figure out which comments were yours! LOL

I stayed up late last night reading them all too. People are nuts!! And that lady talking who kept going on about her indepth experience with penises?! What. The. Hell.

And I fail to see how male circ is equivalent to female genital mutilation.

[weeniegeniewife]

And I fail to see how male circ is equivalent to female genital mutilation.

I was thinking the same thing. WTF!!

[PrincessFiona]

Dh says the same thing, Jenn. Today, there are non-surgical options to treat phimosis. Penis' are easier to clean than labia. The hiv and penile cancer rates aren't higher in european countries that don't routinely circ. I don't see a medical necessity and it's just not something I understand...but that's just me.

[BonBon]

Don't get me wrong - I also think it's unnecessary, and I would have preferred our son stay intact. I'm viewing it from the perspective of my Jewish DH (circ'd, obvs), that he obviously doesn't know what he's missing but is still able to have a normal sex life and achieve orgasm. Whereas the most serious form of FMG involves removal of the clitoris and sewing together the labia, rendering the woman unable to have normal sexual relations, much more likely to have infection, etc.

[Momo]

ITA that too many people take her too seriously! She is a funny writer.

I came across this man's perspective this summer...I found it to be quite interesting, since he has 1st hand experience w/both! Granted there are others that contributed, but his submission seemed to make sense to me.

http://www.circinfo.net/men_circumci..._as_it_is.html

Important tips from Australian man

I would like to congratulate you on your excellent website. It's nice to see the circumcision issue presented in a neutral and informative fashion. I would also like to thank you in the advice offered last year, as discussed below, you will see that it has led to a successful solution.
I would like to offer my experiences to readers of this site as, unlike many, I have seen both side of this 'argument' from a first hand view.
I was born in 1970 in Australia. At that time, circumcision was the norm, I apparently was the only infant in the ward not circumcised. The choice of my parents not to circumcise was the same as many parents who do - to look like my father.
Growing up, the foreskin was not too great an issue, I was taught from an early age how to clean myself and practised proper penile hygiene. I was aware that I did not look like most of my class mates, but I must admit it was never too much of an issue. It was not until my teens that I noticed that my penis would develop an 'smell', to put it one way. Despite morning showers, by the afternoon my penis would start to develop a slight odour, not strong, and not noticeable to others, but noticeable to me.
If I missed a shower, say because I was camping, the odour grew stronger, and in cases such as these smegma would start to build up under the foreskin rather quickly. As a result, where possible I would wash twice a day. I noticed while living in Europe (where circumcision is in the minority), that many men would have a strong odour, like the one I was familiar with, in winter. When thinking that in countries such as Italy and regions of France, showers are a once or biweekly affair in winter, I could understand why this odour could become so strong.
As I got older and sexual relations developed, I also noticed the difficulty of using a condom on an uncircumcised penis. To have the condom stay put whilst the foreskin under it moved back and forth was almost impossible, on several occasions it came close to coming off and once actually did. Post sex hygiene I discovered was also a big issue, as ejaculate and fluids would collect under the foreskin, and if left would develop into an unpleasant paste.
At this point I must say that my foreskin could cover the glans (head) of my erect penis. If the skin had been shorter, this might have been less of an issue. From a woman's point of view, no partner ever had anything negative to say about the foreskin (and I have had girlfriends from many parts of the planet). Only once, in a discussion with an American girlfriend when living in the US, did I hear that she thought a circumcised penis looked more aesthetic; that was it though and we had a great sex life. It was not until my present partner, and wife, did I hear a woman say that she did not like the idea of a foreskin.
I began to think about circumcision after an experiment an earlier partner and I tried for fun. During intercourse (without a condom), she held back my foreskin, and the difference to both of us was immediate and amazing. To me it no longer felt as if I were masturbating through a rubber glove, I could actually feel my partner and all her textures. For her, the sealing comment was "oh wow that's good". It got me thinking, and in some ways explained why up until that point I thought intercourse was an overrated activity. This together with the continued hygiene issues made me decide to have a circumcision.
Several years later I finally got around to having it done. I saw a local GP who after questioning me as to why I wanted it done, referred me to a general surgeon. After a simple discussion and examination we set the date for the procedure under general anaesthetic. The procedure lasted an hour and recovery took a week or two. Several 'cosmetic' issues arose from the procedure, but those are outlined below.
That was close to ten years ago now, and since that time I consider it to be the best decision I have made. Hygiene is no longer an issue, the lack of foreskin keeps the penis clean at all times. Nor have I noticed ANY loss of sensation. On the contrary, I find intercourse improved 10 fold since the circumcision. The few microns the skin that the glans may have thickened makes no difference at all to sexual receptiveness and I find it in some ways it is more sensitive.
It annoys me that the anti circumcision lobby creates so many myths and lies about circumcision in order to prove their point. I even read somewhere that one of them thought it was uncomfortable to ride a bike because he was circumcised! Being a serious cyclist, I have never heard such guff! All I can say about these people is this: a man who is circumcised (and has been from birth) that says having a foreskin is better has no grounds for comparison. A woman who champions foreskins can and never will have any idea what it's like to have a foreskin, let alone a penis. And an uncircumcised man who says that having a foreskin is best is in the same boat as the circumcised man, as he has nothing to benchmark against. Men who contribute their life's misgivings, bad sex lives, whatever, on their circumcision do so because it's an easy target. Sex is in the brain, not between one's legs. Just remember that there are tens of millions of very happy circumcised men around the planet enjoying their lives and sex.
From my experiences though I have learnt a few things that are very rarely talked about when discussing circumcision. They are as follows and I feel should apply when talking to a doctor about having a circumcision or having one performed on your son.
1. Ask the doctor/surgeon about what 'style' of circumcision they perform. I did not know about this, nor was it offered to me by my surgeon, but there are three basic styles of circumcision: low, mid and high. These refer to the point at which the 'suture' line is placed. A low circumcision places the suture line very close to the head of the penis. The net result of this is that most, if not all, the 'inner' sensitive skin is removed. This skin is the hot topic for anti circumcision groups and I would agree that if it is removed there will be a loss of sensitive tissue netting in diminished sexual sensations .
I would guess that adult men who have been circumcised and then complain of the loss of sexual sensation must have had a 'low' cut. Mid apparently is the norm for most infants and it removes an equal amount of inner and outer skin. This is what was performed on me, and I have no complaints. On an adult, the suture line is approx about 25mm or 1" from the head of the erect penis. A high circumcision leaves a large amount of the sensitive inner skin but apparently can cause issues if it's too high such as excessive skin stretching. Another name for this is a 'tight' circumcision, because the skin of the shaft is tight when erect and when flaccid there is no loose skin. A mid will have a degree of loose, or wrinkled, skin when flaccid (not enough to cover the head) and though taut when erect, the skin still has some movement.

2. In the case of an adult circumcision the surgeon should use fine non dissolving sutures. In my case the surgeon used dissolving sutures which prematurely dissolved and caused a reaction in the healing. The net result was that the suture line healed unevenly with small rows of fleshy lumps that formed between the sutures. Though causing no problems they were unsightly, as such I had them removed (which was like having a half circumcision!), a process that involved more sutures!! They have been removed very successfully, leaving no trace. In case you are wondering, the removal of very fine sutures involves no pain.
3. Ask if the frenulum will be removed. This area is very sensitive. I am lucky in that the surgeon left mine intact. An overly tight frenulum will need to be removed regardless (or will break on its own accord), but if it is normal it should be kept, or at least left to develop at its own accord. In many infant circumcisions, even when the frenulum is left it may not fully develop, and can appear as if it was removed.
4. Do not be afraid to ask your surgeon any questions about circumcision. Ask what method they use, how many they perform (or how experience they are), what style they usually do etc. etc. They should not have any hesitation in talking to you and in many ways should offer much of this information on their own accord. In my case the surgeon offered nothing and I did not know what I know now; I was not happy with the cosmetic results, leading to further, though minor, procedures to correct his 'tardy' work, though now I am a happy camper!

[PrincessFiona]

That guy is an idiot. I lived in Europe for years. They don't have an odor, there is no problem using a condom, and sex with a foreskin is frankly ... well, lets just say I disagree with him. So there.

Kris

[corn poffi]

I have no problem with how they look, but I dated a German guy once. Let's just say the relationship ended quickly. I have a very sensitive nose.

[PrincessFiona]

Seriously? Wow. Uncirced men have crevices where icky stuff like urine collects if they don't wash up. Sorry you guys dated icky penises, but it doesn't warrant circumcision ... just a shower.

[Chrisada]

DH insisted that neither of our sons be circumcised, which really surprised me. He also hates performing circumcisions, which the OB/GYNs do at his hospital. Every single other mom I knew in our city also refused to get their sons circumcised. But I think that probably has something to do with the crunchiness of that city.

[PrincessFiona]

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/mo...likely-believe

Myth #8
http://www.nocircpa.org/4642.html

[MissCrabette]

I won't get into the mini debate about circumcision, but I will say that what they experienced is most likely an issue with personal hygiene and not necessarily related to circumcision. We now take a daily shower for granted in the US, but that may not be the norm in other countries. When I was growing up in Romania, people took a weekly bath, usually before going to church. That was occasionally supplemented with washing one's armpits over the sink. Things have changed, but not all that much, especially with the older generations who probably consider it wasteful and unnecessary and who roll their eyes at the young'uns' frivolous showers.

[corn poffi]

I also have a realllllly sensitive nose. I smell everything. He was a pretty clean guy otherwise. But let's just say he wasn't that well-versed on hygiene in his nether regions. It was disgusting.

I really don't have a side on this debate, as I don't care who does what to their body, I just wanted to point out that there CAN be cleanliness problems if they're not taught proper hygiene! But that goes for every part of the body!