The longest path

[Vanquisher]

What is the longst, although direct, path to attendinghood?

I am just curious what specialty or subspeciatly requires the longest training road.

I am not interested in Ph.D. paths or anything like that, but conversely am curious, if I wanted to do "x" specialty as fast as I could what specialty would take the longest. Further, I am not interested in discussing B.S. M.D. paths or anything like that. The road most taken.

So, since I know this for certain, I will take Ortho. This is the fastest you can get through ortho and ortho subspecialties. We will assume 4 years of medical school.

General orthopaedics - 5 years
Pediatric orthopaedics - 6 years
Orthopaedic spine - 6 years
Foot and ankle -6 years
Tumor - 6 years
Sports ortho - 6 years
Hand/Upper extremity - 6 years

In summary, Ortho takes 5-6 years after medical school (5 for general, 6 for all other subspecialties). How much does it take in your spouses field (mandatory only)?

[Sheherezade]

Gyn Onc

4 years OB
3 or 4 year fellowship (depending on what program) in Gyn Onc
________

7-8 years post med school

I think Marla/HeartRN would have a good contender for this.

Derm is not long on a direct route -- 4 years (intern year plus 3). Most fellowships are a year or two.

[Vanquisher]

3 or 4 year fellowship (depending on what program) in Gyn Onc

Okay, so 4 years doesn't count, because in this game the rules are *can* be done in...

So, therefore, Gyn-onc would be 3 for fellowship for a total of 7.

[ides]

There are a lot of subspeciality paths off of General Surgery. I'll list the ones I know off the top of my head. Maybe another gen surg spouse can chime in with the rest.

General Surgery: 5 years
Colorectal: 6 years
Plastic: 7 - 8 years
Critical Care: 6 years
Vascular: 7 years
Pediatric Surgery: 7 years
Thoracic: 7 - 8 years

[Flynn]

There are a lot of subspeciality paths off of General Surgery. I'll list the ones I know off the top of my head. Maybe another gen surg spouse can chime in with the rest.

General Surgery: 5 years
Colorectal: 6 years
Plastic: 7 - 8 years
Critical Care: 6 years
Vascular: 7 years
Pediatric Surgery: 7 years
Thoracic: 7 - 8 years

DH is a CT surgeon (cardio thoracic surgeon) and those fellowships are 99% of the time together. THEN, if you do academics you usually choose one of these (cardiac OR thoracic).

CT fellowships are 2 - 3 years...most are going towards the THREE year mark.

For us:

• General Surgery 5 years
  Lab time 2 years
  Fellowship 2 years

Most competitive specialities require research so that tacks on a few years here and there. For example, it's REALLY hard to match in peds surgery. Without research it's almost a GIVEN you won't match. So that's a 9 year path too with research factored in. Maybe Kelly can comment more on this...

Our total = 9 big fat long years.

[Sheherezade]

You will probably need to consider in this game that some specialties are so competitive that you have few options for fellowships - and you have to go to the one you've matched at. It may be a longer or a shorter one - and you don't get to decide. It may require research years while others that you selected - but didn't get in the match - did not. So...buyer beware.

[SuzySunshine]

Neurosurgery is 6-7 years depending on the progam, most are now seven. If you were going into private practice you could walk away after residency.

However, to be an attending at an academic institution you have to do an additional 12-18 months of fellowship to specialize.

So 8 to 8 1/2 years is the shortest path for neurosurgery attending-hood.

[alison]

Holy cow! :thud:

I knew a woman who's husband was PGY 12. He did CT surgery at CCF, w/all sorts of research / transplant fellow thrown in for good measure. I told the woman in no uncertain terms that she was certifiable (aren't I a support) for not putting a stop to it. She 'fessed up that she was an OB/GYN so his hours didn't bother her until the last 1.5 years when they had a child.

Pathology was 5 years, they've changed it to 4 (not in time to benefit us), and you can do ONLY AP or ONLY CP in 3. Most people do both, and then a fellow.

[Phoebe]

peds-3
neonatology-3

I think all of them are too long!

Emergency Medicine - 3 years
Fellowship - 1 year

The general rule of thumb is 4 year program or a 3 year program plus 1 year fellowship if you want to do acedemics

3 years if you don't want to work in academics, though depending on the program your residency is in you could theoretically work in academics w/3 year residency if it was deemed an accedemic program anyone else hate this kind of logic in medicine? If you do this you could be employeed here... maybe... so take a guess... We have it short compared to others, that's not what I'm complaining about, just that if you want to do xyz you might have to do xyz, maybe.

I have rules about fellowships, strict rules. I agree with the buyer beware, know what routes could need to be taken, and then make sure you know what you are willing to put up with!\

Great post Heidi

[Vanquisher]

Oh, I am not complaining either, and I know that our path certainly isn't the longest out there, by far!

It's just interesting to see all these paths aqnd how long they take. I mean, you can extend medicine out indefinitely doing fellowship after fellowship and research upon PhDs. That's not really what I am asking here. Balls to the wall, how fast could someone get through any given specialty? And, by that standard which one IS the longest?

I do think that they are ALL TOO long. I mean WHY does it take 5 years to learn how to screw and pin bones anyway? Medical school was 4 years, and that was the whole body. Seems like the more you focus on a part, the longer it takes. Stupid. I just don't understand what jackass came up with this screwy system anyway.

[Sheherezade]

I don't think medical school really teaches you how to be a doctor. There, I've said it.

I think that if they wanted to shorten the training, they should make the docs more specialized early on and take away a clinical year of med school. I think med school in 3 years, 1 year of a generalized residency/intern year (but more than internal/surgery divisions) and then 3-4 years of what we call fellowship now as your residency. No fellowships. For my DH, he'd have done an OB/Gyn intro year then a gyn onc training program. That's my plan. It would cut the training process for us from 11 years post grad to 8 years post grad. He wouldn't have OB training per se and wouldn't be boarded in that. He'd have to make up his mind more quickly.

Any other ideas about revamping the system? If we could....

[migirl]

If you want to be a general urologist, you'd have to do:

- 4 years med school
- 5 OR 6 years residency training (some programs are 5 years strictly clinical, some programs (like ours) are 6 years with one year of protected research)

After that, fellowships range anywhere from 1 to 3 years.