Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

[Thirteen]

Hello all!

I'm up here visiting some friends, and it's superb
Like I've said before, we're probably moving outside of CA next July-ish.
Does anybody have recommendations as to how to do this? Or even insider opinions?

Please post it up

Thanks!
:mydoc:

[Tenacious_D]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

If you have 2 incomes, Boston might seem more affordable but you have to live outside the city in a town like Waltham, MA or if you want to spend a little more for the surburbia lifestyle, Arlington, MA is great. You will need at least one car for both (food shopping, general errands etc.).

Boston is very much like NYC and is quite expensive.

[alison]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

I can't speak for Boston, but as far as a large, expensive city is concerned: I moved from the West Coast (terrible public transportation) to Chicago (awesome public transportation). Chicago is one of the cheaper big cities, actually (I've heard it called "a blue-collar New York City"). We would not survive in the city without my income. That said, living outside in a burb is not an option for me. I want to be in the middle of it all, drive rarely to never, walk to everything. We live in a small one-bedroom apartment that is no bigger than an average living room. Kids wouldn't be an option here either.

[DCJenn]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

It's completely doable if you're willing to live an urban lifestyle- public transportation, small apartment, etc.

If you have any combination of children, large pets, farm animals or a compelling need to mow the grass, then you'd have to go to the burbs and the burbs can be REALLY expensive unless you go to the outer, outer burbs. (think end of the train line and then a 10 minute+ drive)

Large cities on the East Coast make it very easy to live in the urban core though.

Jenn

[Sheherezade]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

We lived in Boston over my husband's fellowship years. I was a SAHM with two small children. We lived in Brookline. It is an upscale, inner ring suburb of the city. Limited yards, but lots of park space. We rented. Rent was insanely high (45% of salary) but included utilities. We could not afford to buy in to the neighborhood even when DH was offered an attending position (and attending salary) after fellowship. I don't know what's happened now that housing has gone bust.

Public schools were great for my son. DD went to private small preschool at around 5 K a year. We did not need a car for the three years we lived in the area. Public transportation by T was a few blocks away, safe and always available. Zipcar has a good program in the city for hourly car use...so transportation is really easy in any form. There are lots of free things to do so if you are willing to life a "simple life" you can be very happy. With little kids and a DH in a nasty fellowship, our entertainment costs were virtually absent. There was a massive library down the street and a Starbucks at the corner. I was happy.

I'd move back in a heartbeat.....if the program hadn't been so fractured.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

We lived in Boston for four years of my husband's residency (everything but the transitional year) and then we were around there for this last year of fellowship training. When we got there we had four children. Our fifth was born right there in the Longwood medical area.

We lived in West Roxbury (a neighborhood in Boston - it's the most 'suburban' neighborhood physically within the city - and that's not saying much).

It's very, very expensive. Crazy expensive. Yes, there's public transportation - but you pay through the nose for housing of any sort. Food is also more expensive. The same item (same brand, same size) in Boston was always more expensive than in Texas.

It's dangerous. Crime is a factor if you are living in the city itself. Some neighborhoods are more scary than others. The public transportation system allows criminals to get around easier than if they had cars.

Traffic is insane. But, you'll find similar traffic in any major city in the United States. What really contributes to the traffic problems in Boston are the mixed-up roads. It's like driving through a maze - and you're lucky if there are any street signs to identify exactly where you are.

I would never, ever, EVER send a child to a Boston public school. EVER. And, private schools there (mostly Catholic) are very expensive. Because of this home education is on the rise in that city - particularly among minorities.

You will find good parks if you drive over to Brookline and around Jamaica Pond. There are quite a few really beautiful places to go running and biking. Autumn is heavenly.

Would we do it again? Yes. But, with children it is difficult. Without children it would be really awesome. It really is an 'adult' city - not child-friendly in the least but great for grown-ups.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

I'm a part-time resident of Boston and part-time in Cleveland so I think I have a broad perspective on the cost of living there.

1) Everything in Boston is expensive unless NYC or San Fran in your reference point
2) Taxes are very high though maybe that's my reference point (MD, NH, OH are the states where I've paid taxes)
3) Everyone drives everywhere unlike cities of comparable size and thus public transport is difficult unless you're right on the T (the metro around here) or the commuter rail, you must have a car
4) Schools can be excellent but that's very dependent on your neighborhood
5) Some of those towns which are considered more affordable are 15-20 minutes from Boston during non-rush hour but over an hour or more in rush hour traffic

[Rapunzel]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

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4) Schools can be excellent but that's very dependent on your neighborhood

Ahhhh.... Here's the problem with Boston schools:

It doesn't matter what neighborhood you live in. Your children are bussed to the school that the district assigns them to. There is a "lottery" system and parents fight like crazed pit bulls for a slot at a "good" school for their children. It's rare to get your child into one of those 'good' schools.

In other words, if you move to an awesome little neighborhood in Boston and there's the top-ranked elementary school just around the corner - you're children are not likely to attend it. They're likely to be bussed across town to a really awful little school. It goes according to the rules of the lottery system in place.

Boston is the only place I've ever lived with such an insane way of deciding public school attendance. And, again, that is why private schools and (increasingly) home education are so popular there.

[houseelf]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

When I researched private schools in Boston, I found that tuition was DOUBLE that of midwest prices for commiserate schools. Plus I read stories about having to prepare your kids for an interview to get into the school and make it off the waiting list. I'm not familiar enough with the system to comment extensively, but this really is not a good fit for me.

At the risk of sounding provencial, I'm happy here in the good ol' Midwest, thank you very much.

Kelly

[Flynn]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

In other words, if you move to an awesome little neighborhood in Boston and there's the top-ranked elementary school just around the corner - you're children are not likely to attend it. They're likely to be bussed across town to a really awful little school. It goes according to the rules of the lottery system in place.

Boston is the only place I've ever lived with such an insane way of deciding public school attendance. And, again, that is why private schools and (increasingly) home education are so popular there.

So I HAVE to ask -- are property taxes a part of the funds designated for public schools???
How do they defend the "lottery" system then???

[Sheherezade]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

Just to clear up any confusion ..... when I posted about Boston, I was referring to the Boston *area*. We lived in Brookline. It is attached to Boston....but the public schools there are great. When you cross a school district border in to Brighton, housing values fall by at least a third (probably more). I think that living in Brookline was a great fit for us. The insane rent was well worth it. I would say check out Cleveland Circle or Washington Square.

Schools in Cambridge (across the river with Harvard undergrad campus) are run on a lottery. It is hard to get in to the "better schools" but you can work the system if you are there a year in advance. There is a whole book on it called the "red book" that circulates. I bought a copy and then realized we wouldn't match until after the deadline to sign up for the better schools. :huh: Boston proper has awful schools and archaic busing rules. We would have homeschooled if we could only find housing in city limits.

All that said...you probably don't have kids.

Boston area differs greatly from Boston proper. There are all types of living arrangements. Suburbs.....inner ring suburbs.....downtown...Cambridge ....all of it gets called "Boston" but it isn't really.

[Thirteen]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

It's true: currently, there are no kids. We aren't even married yet

But... his anesthesia residency has 3 more years, and I would be working either on a PhD or a JD. So, we could be somewhere stationary for the next 3-6 years. And he's already 30, and although he hasn't said anything about babies, I get the feeling that we'd start somewhere in that time frame. Maybe even have one, and another on the way (?)

Definitely important things to consider.

About Cleveland Circle and Washington -- my friend lives at the end of B line, and she's in Brighton. I agree that it seems a lot more sane.

Thanks to all who responded - if you've got more, keep it up. I love the info

[Sheherezade]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

Schools not an issue...I'd definitely look in Allston/Brighton near the Brookline borders and in Jamaica Plain. *sigh* Downtown in Back Bay or Beacon Hill is v. pricey but nice if you like the action. I'd imagine real estate is on the slide in MA now so you might find some bargains.

Enjoy that freedom from school districts! It's one of my pet peeves of parenthood. I wish that we had public school choice programs in place everywhere. Choosing a place to live would be so much easier!

[Rapunzel]

Re: Boston, MA: Affordable, or not?

In other words, if you move to an awesome little neighborhood in Boston and there's the top-ranked elementary school just around the corner - you're children are not likely to attend it. They're likely to be bussed across town to a really awful little school. It goes according to the rules of the lottery system in place.

Boston is the only place I've ever lived with such an insane way of deciding public school attendance. And, again, that is why private schools and (increasingly) home education are so popular there.

So I HAVE to ask -- are property taxes a part of the funds designated for public schools???
How do they defend the "lottery" system then???

1) I don't know since we didn't own while living there. :huh:

2) The lottery system was court-ordered long ago. The idea was to promote "diversity" by bussing the kids from one end of the city to the other end. Now, I will fully agree that Boston is THE most segregated place I've ever lived. EVER. But, I think that the court-ordered bussing could be considered extreme even for that.