Worries about Socialized Medicine?

[Thirteen]

Hello all!

The resident SO is very concerned about Socialist medicine.
I think it's because pay would be significantly lower, or just in a set range that is immovable.

Could anyone possibly explain this a little bit better to me? Are your SOs worried too?

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

We're probably not the best ones to talk to...being Canadian and all

DH has worked in both the private and public systems here and in Australia so that is all we can fairly give an opinion on I will say that DH has vowed to never do private again! He has major issues with only treating private patients....there is a long list of reasons, but he feels strongly enough that I think we'll always be in a public system. Yep, he'll make less money, but we def didn't enter the medical profession with money in mind (as I sit here with a quarter million in debt)

Private clinics are popping up here in Canada, but so far I don't think that they have dramatically affected the universal healthcare system...yet! We have long wait times, but fantastic healthcare IMO.

[McPants]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

Socialist medicine..? By that, do you mean public healthcare? If so, I strongly doubt that there could ever be a situation in which there will only be a system of public healthcare in the U.S. In the hypothetical situation that this would be the case, then I would assume that wages would be lower than they currently are, given that public employers generally offer lower wages than their private counterparts. At the same time, I would expect the hours your husbands/SOs would be expected to work would be lower too, so you'd see them more.

Still, given that private hospitals/care providers will still exist in the U.S. even if public healthcare were to be introduced, it will still be possible to earn impressive amounts of money for the doctor that cares mainly about the paycheck.

..or at least that would be this foreigner's perspective.

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

Do you think the current situation is effective? Does it bother you that pharm companies actually fund our medical students and residents education by paying for conventions, journal reviews etc... Does it bother you that they influence our medical institute? Do you know what they spend on marketing? Do you know how much a month we all pay in health care fees to cover these expensive drugs that often are not effective for those who take them? ... If your DH didn't have the debt, would he feel different?

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

Hello all!

The resident SO is very concerned about Socialist medicine.
I think it's because pay would be significantly lower, or just in a set range that is immovable.

Could anyone possibly explain this a little bit better to me? Are your SOs worried too?

The NSG residents here must spend 6 months abroad in their 6th year, in an exchange program with a hospital in a first world country with socialized medicine. They bring back shocking stories of patient care, wait lines, pay, and a lack of R&D. Even the most liberal of them are turned off to socialized medicine after having worked in it, and comparing it to our system. It's merely antecdotal, but it definitely has caused my DH to worry for himself. And his future patients.

[Laker]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

In DW's program they see lots of wealthy from socialized medicine countries. Wonder why they come to the US for care?

In grad school I had a friend from Toronto...her family had money and her mother had her cancer treatment in the US...she told me that the wait times for radiation in Canada were a couple of months...

That would totally suck IMO.

[Flynn]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

Socialist medicine..? By that, do you mean public healthcare? If so, I strongly doubt that there could ever be a situation in which there will only be a system of public healthcare in the U.S. In the hypothetical situation that this would be the case, then I would assume that wages would be lower than they currently are, given that public employers generally offer lower wages than their private counterparts. At the same time, I would expect the hours your husbands/SOs would be expected to work would be lower too, so you'd see them more.

I agree with the above. The system is so broken SOMETHING has to be done. DH isn't worried. Compensation has gone down quite a bit in the past 10 years. Something has to give.

So far DH hasn't had any issues with patients saying their insurance won't cover this or that. Whatever he says they need, they get. I'm sure that varies by speciality somewhat.

Medicine is so flawed this is just one more chapter IMO.

[DCJenn]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

I have socialized medicine (the military system) and it seems to work for me, but we're a mere microcosm of the rest of the universe.

Jenn

[ladymoreta]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

We're definitely concerned. On one hand, it would be great to have him get paid for every patient he will see, but on the other hand, we've heard statistical evidence about wait times for primary care, elective and non-elective surgeries, and ER visits, and anecdotal evidence from Canadian friends about the quality of medicine there compared to here. Also, DH went into medicine primarily for the challenges and opportunities to improve society, but he could have accomplished both of those in a variety of careers that didn't require 8+ years of training after college. When I look at the lifestyle we have compared to our non-medical friends, I strongly believe that you have to compensate people well for that, or you will have a shortage of doctors (or at least U.S. trained doctors).

[Sheherezade]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

There was a very good Frontline episode on the various international healthcare systems. It is available on iTunes. Maybe you and your DH would enjoy it. It's a 60 minute show covering Canada, Japan, England,etc. and evaluating plans for the U.S.

[McPants]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

In DW's program they see lots of wealthy from socialized medicine countries. Wonder why they come to the US for care?

In grad school I had a friend from Toronto...her family had money and her mother had her cancer treatment in the US...she told me that the wait times for radiation in Canada were a couple of months...

That would totally suck IMO.

Well, the reason why some wealthy people from countries with public healthcare come to the U.S. is that the U.S. is probably the best place in the world to have treatment in IF you're able pay for it. Given that patients are supposed to be treated as equals in public healthcare, the very rich can't always be certain that they'll get the best treatment money could buy.

And yes, of course it does suck if there are wait times for critical procedures and treatments, however from what I can tell that is hardly ever the case (the countries I have knowledge of are mainly Sweden and the UK). If there are wait times, they're usually for non-critical procedures such as hip replacement surgery for the elderly. As unfortunate as that is, certain wait times may be unavoidable given that all citizens actually get healthcare. There will always be private alternatives available to those that don't mind paying for a separate health insurance policy, however.

[McPants]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

When I look at the lifestyle we have compared to our non-medical friends, I strongly believe that you have to compensate people well for that, or you will have a shortage of doctors (or at least U.S. trained doctors).

I think you might want to keep in mind that the lifestyle could also come to change for you guys if public healthcare were to be introduced (which I still don't believe will happen in the U.S.). Although physicians still tend to work more than most other professions here in Europe, it's not really comparable to the ridiculous hours they're made to work in the U.S.

To me, an issue of importance would be the significant debt U.S. med students tend to accumulate. Here in Europe, medical students don't end up with much more debt than other students as their tuition is the same as for other types of education. If physicians' salaries are to be decreased, there should probably be subsidies to help people get through med school with manageable debt.

[Deebs]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

I don't think we can take another country's system, plop it into the US, and make it work. I spent a significant portion of my academic time studying various healthcare systems, and different countries have come up with different plans for a reason - there isn't a one size fits all solution (there really isn't a solution out there, at the moment, that everyone will be happy with). But, then I look specifically at the situation in the ED. The average emergency physician is writing off nearly $200,000 a year in care, EMTALA ensures that even non-paying patients receive care in the most expensive setting possible, and wait times are increasing daily. Misuse of our system is rampant.

I think the solution is multifaceted, and to compare us to Canada is short-sided, but we can definitely look at what has and hasn't worked in different countries to work toward repairing healthcare in the US. I also worry that people are desperate for something to happen now in healthcare, forgetting that it took us literally decades to get to the place we're at.

I continued to hope, throughout the campaign season, that one candidate or the other would mention something about professions where, even though pay may be high, indebtedness is basically required to get into that position. We're facing almost $300,000 of student loans (whose interest is no-longer a tax deduction), and a salary that doesn't offset it greatly. Our student loan payments are more than our mortgage. So, I guess this is my long-winded, not enough sleep way of saying something needs to change, and I think expanding the government's role in healthcare may be the only way to really change it.

[McPants]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

Regarding physician pay they will have to keep to competitive to maintain applicants. If they slash the pay they will slash the interest and quality. Not altruistic, but true. Smart people are generally smart in various areas, with mulitple interest to pursue. If the pay doesn't reflect the investment people won't sign up. :huh:

First of all, I doubt anyone would suggest lowering the wages too much, so physicians will still earn more than the vast majority of people. That said, in Sweden for example, the wage structure is ridiculously flat (physicians earn about $50 000 - 130 000/year and the tax rate is roughly 50%) and medical school it is still without a doubt the most sought after education in the country, despite a lot of business people in the private sector earning way more than physicians do. It's not just about the money; status, job satisfaction and responsibility are important too. Besides, if money is made into less of an issue, perhaps some intelligent people with little regard for or interest in patients will be replaced by slightly less brilliant caregivers who actually care. I'm not sure that's such a bad thing, you know.

[McPants]

Re: Worries about Socialized Medicine?

You can take any theoretical health care system you want, but if you inject the reality of increasingly, chronically sick population it's going to look ugly no matter what.

I think the bigger question is how to change from a tertiary-focused to a primary-focus health care system. :huh:

I agree completely. It's going to be quite the challenge to do this without involving social engineering, however, and we all know how popular that is in the U.S..