The price of gas

he he

and here i was amazed at how CHEAP fuel in the U.S is

we pay per litre here which varies between .80-99 - thats between $3.20 and 4 a gallon!

but i drive a very small car so life is good

do you guys have the smart cars that are so popular in europe?

Re: speaking of SUVs

"...and of course won't be supported by his buddies in the gas industry including Condaleeza Rice who has an oil tanker named after her


Kris

SHE HAS AN OIL TANKER NAMED AFTER HER???!!!!! (Too bad there isn't an emoticon for SCREAM!) Not that it surprises me or anything...

Yes, it was called The Condoleeza Rice and is owned by Chevron. A gift for her service as a member of the board.
They have since (quietly) renamed it the Altair Voyager.

[Meenah]

That is unbelievable!!! An oil tanker??
Luanne

do you guys have the smart cars that are so popular in europe?

No, we have extremely stupid cars--some of which are very large and get 11-13 miles per gallon because the automobile and oil and gas industries have very powerful political lobbyists, and there's all kinds of things like greed and money and power and inflated consumer egos getting in the way of any cars actually being smart or good for the environment. Much to my sorrow...

[fluffhead]

do you guys have the smart cars that are so popular in europe?


No, we have extremely stupid cars-

heh that cracks me up
but I have seen some of those cooper minis around town, trying to squeeze in amongst the monstrous SUVs

As a guilty SUV driver, I have to come to the defense of some of us who drive these evil vehicles. First, I like them because they are roomy. I have 3 kids which I faithfully buckle into child safety seats. It is very difficult to fit 3 child seats into regular family sized sedans. Believe me, I've tried. And since we don't fly (too expensive and to think of the gas for the plane!), our vacations are always in our Pathfinder and we need the room for camping equipment, sleeping bags, cooler, and clothes for a family of 5.

Second, we got it because we need the 4 wheel drive living in a place with snow and ice and mountains. I don't think I can get up my driveway in the winter without it. Also, the 4WD makes our vacations in national parks much more enjoyable. We are able to go off road and see things less traveled. These roads are unpaved but available if you have 4WD capability.

Third, I didn't buy it because it was trendy. I am a non-conformist by nature. I bought it because it was a necessity. My first car was an itty bitty Toyota that had about 22 miles to the gallon. I loved it but once I had kids, it was just uncomfortable for the kids in the back. They had groceries in their laps!

Maybe minivans are better than SUVS - I don't know. But I am a petite person and I am afraid a minivan would be hard for me to maneuver.

I do not support the behemoth Excursions or the supposedly eye-catching Hummer. I do think those vehicles go overboard and are just for keeping up with the Joneses which I am not into doing. And I do think it is silly for people with one or no children to be driving huge SUV's because everyone else is.

I do my best to make the world a better place for my children. I recycle my own newspapers (bag them myself and take them to nearby receptacles since the city does not pick up), glass, and cans. After all since we do vacation in the great outdoors it would be hypocritical of me to instill a love of nature in my kids and turn around and trash it. If they ever come out with a large economical vehicle that will serve my purpose then then I'm all for it. But as I see it paying $1.59 for a gallon of gas is still cheaper than a gallon of milk for me and it gets me where I need to go.

[fluffhead]

It sounds like you actually make use of your SUV - but so many that I see are occupied by one person and driving down main street.
Whatever happened to station wagons? and the gas guzzler tax?
pffffft

[Cumberland]

what does everyone think about the Toyota Prius? It is a hybrid- gas/electric and gets amazing gas mileage. I think maybe when my accord dies I might look into one.

Well, I would have to agree with you Tired&Poor, they are roomy. My family is in need of the room. I am 6'4" almost 6'5", my DW is 5'11", everyone in my family is over 6'6" except me and my mom (or in-laws).
Forecast for the kids....big. But, we had two cars that were very economical and enviromentally friendly, getting 27-32 mpg. They were two door compacts, yet with car seats and anything else you couldn't see out the back window.

We drive an SUV, yep, the gas mileage sucks. But we never see Bush driving a Prius out on the ranch now do we?
(Ford F-350..for those that want to know)

There are many other vehicles on the road that are as bad or worse than many SUV's and no one is bad mouthing them. My neighbor has a 1978 Oldsmobile that he drives everyday, I can guarantee that vehicle is a danger to society. There are hundreds of Lexus, BMW, Mercedes that are beautiful vehicles and get worse gas mileage than many SUV's. And they have a gas guzzler tax along with luxury tax. No one is screaming about them.

Everyone has an opinion on this topic, most everyone has/had a car. I think that it is crazy for people to suggest that because you drive a particluar vehicle that you support deviant behavior. Has anyone heard the ads about SUV's and supporting terrorists? It is nonsense.

I guess I have been having a bad day, forgive me for going on....

Matt

ps. If I could get my family and luggage on a motorcycle for vacation, or for that matter just running errands, I would!

There are many other vehicles on the road that are as bad or worse than many SUV's and no one is bad mouthing them. My neighbor has a 1978 Oldsmobile that he drives everyday, I can guarantee that vehicle is a danger to society. There are hundreds of Lexus, BMW, Mercedes that are beautiful vehicles and get worse gas mileage than many SUV's. And they have a gas guzzler tax along with luxury tax. No one is screaming about them.

Actually, gas mileage is only part of what I'm screaming about when it comes to SUVs. I read a very sobering article in the newest issue of Time at 6 AM this morning that told me what chances I would have of surviving if an SUV slammed into my Ford Focus, and it kind of ruined my whole day. So I guess I'm just praying that you all are very, very good drivers. At least when I'm parked between two gas guzzling BMWs I can see who's coming up before I back out.

With all due respect, Eliz, there are also hordes of semis, 18 wheelers, moving vans, UPS trucks, RV's (you get the idea) out there that could crush your Ford Focus like a grape but no one wants them off the streets.

And I am a safe driver. I've only been in one accident in all of the 17 years I've been on the road. And that one accident was in a parking lot when a girl backed into me getting out of her parking spot. I don't have a cell phone so my chances of being distracted are much less than a compact car driver with one. I don't eat, read, or put on make-up while driving either. I also think that having a larger vehicle makes me more likely to be noticed and not in a status sort of way but more in that I'll never be in anyone's "blind spot".

yeah, there are stacks of other large vehicles on the road that could crush Eliz's Ford Focus, but her chance of being squished increase dramatically as the number of SUV's around her increase.

SUV's may make the occupants feel safe but they are deadly for the passengers in other other vehicle in the case of a collision (or pedestrians).

Oh, and cars fomr Europe (BMW, Merc, Peugeot etc) have exceptional km/L as gas/pollution emissions are more highly regulated by the EU.

[DCJenn]

Well-

Here's the reality, as I see it.

Sure, SUVs are handy, especially if you actually use them for their real purpose. 4 wheel drive is very nice to have in the snow and ice. Pick-up trucks are great if you actually haul stuff. BMWs and Mercedes are fabulous cars, on those rare occasions when you can get out of the traffic jam and actually let them rip and enjoy the 'atuobahn experience'.

The problem is, that too many people think nothing of hopping in any one of the above vehicle, or any vehicle for that matter, when they could use public transportation or walk. Why are people in the states havier now than they've ever been? Well, drive through McDonalds and our "got to have it now" mentality are certainly partially to blame.

I personally hate SUVs, large pick-up trucks, behemouth luxury cars both domestic and imported, but what I really hate is the fact that everything from neighborhoods to shopping to going to the docotor anywhere outside of the large city is built with the commuter in mind. Our biggest problem in this beautiful country of ours is that we're paving it over with sprawl which becomes a self-fufilling prophecy of traffic, traffic jams, neighborhoods even further out from the downtown areas, older suburbs decaying like the downtown areas used to, and for what?

When are we going to realize that one more lane on an 18 lane highway isn't going to solve the problem? When will we finally wake up to the fact that public transportation is a critical aspect of any community and adding it in after the fact fixes little. For example, my husband and I got tickets to see Springsteen in concert in Houston, we live in San Antonio. Its a 3 hour drive. If I were in DC and got tickets to see a show, say in Philly- I would hop on the train and cab to the event. That was not even an option here in Texas. There's one train, the Amtrak and it leaves once a day at 8am.

I went to a meeting in Dallas last summer and I took Amtrak, my thought being, why drive when I can let someone else drive. The sad thing was, my co-wrokers didn't even know that the train was an option. (which explains part of Amtak's current problem!!)

anyway, my whole point to this tirade is that we all need to do our parts to conserve our natural resources and to explore other kinds of fuel sources. We all need to walk when we can, combine trips, carpool and use public transportation when we can. Will we save the world or stop the greenhouse gases, nope. but we will save money and wear and tear on the vehicles and, we will help turn neighborhoods back in to communities.

Jenn

Wow.... it has been really interesting to read this thread. My perspective has changed a little since living in Texas. I used to think that one day it would be nice (when we actually had some money) to get an SUV. We have four boys and our family is quite big (not as big as Matt's though! ) I have never liked the HUGE Excursion but I thought a "practical" SUV would be good for our family. BUT ... There are some scary drivers in Texas and many of them driving big vehicles! I get tired of seeing them everywhere, especially with only one person in them. It is a little scary to be in a little car I think in Texas! I feel a little nervous when I drive our Honda Civic and frustrated when I can't see around either vehicle next to me to get out of my parking space. I don't know if minivans are any better in the gas/pollution area but I also don't feel like I have a choice with four kids. I need the room. I would be happy to get a station wagon (I really never thought I would say that!) if I could fit my family comfortably and get much better gas mileage. There are supposed to be a few new models coming out in 2004 but .... I obviously can't afford a new vehicle anytime soon. My poor 1990 Dodge Caravan is the newest of our two vehicles! We are in the process of looking for something new and will probably go with another minivan because of space and price.

Jenn - You made me realize how different people's perspectives can be in regards to where you grew up. In the bigger cities back east there are opportunities to take the train, bus etc. I did that too when I lived in Japan for 18 months. I had a bike and traveled all over. I took the train or cab if I had to.

BUT ... I grew up in the west. There is no public transportation there that is reliable (at least not anywhere I have been). I lived 9 miles from a town of 2400 people. There definitely wasn't a bus to pick me up. I have even lived in L.A. and I would have preferred to ride a bus than drive in that traffic day in and day out ... but the bus ride (I checked on it to see if it would be cheaper!) would take me four hours a day to get to work after all the transfers! It wasn't practical. Because I grew up that way (along with many people in the west) I am used to having a vehicle and coming and going when I please. I am spoiled now. When our van broke down and we only had one vehicle, it was a real pain! I either had to get up really early and take Russ to work or he took the car and I was stuck at home all day. It is sad that we don't think about our environment more. I must admit that a lot of my conservation is about saving money first and then the environment! Hopefully they go hand in hand though.

It really does come down to being practical with whatever we drive. Pointing the finger only at SUVs isn't the answer.

Robin