If you had to do it all again...

[diggitydot]

Everyone else has already posted everything I would have answered your questions with, so I'll cut straight to the fun stuff, advice:

Set your priorities and STICK to them. Like crazy-glue. If family is your #1, make the time to be together, even if it's only for one evening each week. No books, no phone, no computer (GAH!)...just the family hanging out, having dinner together, watching a moving, playing a board game. Whatever, just do it together.

Pick your battles. Stand up for that which matters and allow the rest to go with the flow.

Be flexible with those things that aren't worthy of a battle.

Have a sense of humor and use it. You'll need it.

Drink, heavily. Me? I prefer wine. Lots and lots of wine. By the case.

Remember that there is an end to the school, residency, and fellowship years.

Don't be afraid to befriend other students' spouses. They can be a source of sanity, assistance, friendly shoulder, or sympathetic ear. They'll "get" the weird stuff that no one else understands. (I swear to god, if I had to explain the match to DH's mom one more time...)

[DCJenn]

Definitely concur with the wine thing. and if you don't drink, then chocolate. (or even if you do)

J.

[Pollyanna]

I don't think I would have done anything differently. Going for the MD/PhD program would have been far more efficient that doing everything separately and then adding in a three year post-doc in between. But the scientific training dh received in those years has been invaluable. Truly, we have had a relatively painless training process due to the fact that we have never had to uproot our family. Being able to stay put in the same home and allow the children to have a strong sense of belonging in their community has been HUGE. I have been able to keep all my friends plus have my folks only 10 minutes away. They have been a huge help to me and now that my father is in the advanced stages of Alzheimer's I am able to help them. I give my hubby all the credit for keeping us here. While I told him on numerous occasions that I would be happy to move he has always maintained that what is best for our family is to stay put and doing what is right for the family IS the best thing for his training. By the grace of God we have been able to stay and pray this will continue into attendinghood.

I think I was most surprised by the loneliness. Dh and I are two peas in a pod, we love working and being together so being apart during the long hours of residency was hard. The children really missed when dad was "just a scientist" because at least then he wasn't on call.

It is important to stay busy, live your life, make friends, and have fun. Don't define yourself by his career but also don't forget that what you are doing makes his choices possible. Don't hang out with only medical folk (FYI: they 're kind of weird). Make friends outside medicine but do not expect them to understand your lifestyle or be sympathetic to it. Don't put things on hold, if you want to have babies, have babies, if you want to go back to school, go back to school, whatever it is don't wait until training is over to start living. Be aware, the big secret they don't tell you when you start on this journey...the training is NEVER over.

[moonlight]

If we had to it to do over again I would make several different decisions and DH would do the same. We made mistakes, things we should have known but didn't, and ignorance... ah the joy of ignorance! I might post more detailed advice when it's not so late here. But something that has stood out to me is the advice already given on being the best cheerleader you can. Every person going through a difficult schooling or training program needs a good support system. A very strong support system if it's medicine. Try your best to hold him up when you can see that he's down. In my experience DH has, in return, held me up when I really needed it in this process.

Hardest years for us: middle part of MS3 and 3rd semester on the island (I think that's first part of MS2 in US med student language). No question. After that it was smooth sailing until match day!

[GrayMatterWife]

Be aware, the big secret they don't tell you when you start on this journey...the training is NEVER over.

TRUER WORDS NEVER WRITTEN!!!! It never ends! Especially for MD-PhD nerds!!

[GrayMatterWife]

I also would that I would have realized that I alone am responsible for my happiness.

. . .

(Studies reveal that the elderly regret the risks they didn't take more than the ones that they did. I *totally* undestand this already).

Wow.

You guys really are nailing these.

FWIW, we are having a very stressful time right now (not "Oh, my gosh, my marriage is falling apart and life is collapsing" bad--it's external, not internal stuff). DH is miserable and I am not too far behind. (And, on top of everything else, that STUPID $550 bike he bought two months ago was stolen today--from the hospital--after he lied to me and promised he'd never ride it to the hospital...because it would get stolen, I warned. Wow, I didn't even have to say the Big Obvious "I told you so, and thanks for having so little respect for me that you lie to my face").

But, reading these comments really brought a smile to my face and a sense of perspective about things. Find your joy and don't miss out on life...even if you aren't riding your bike there to find it!

[SoonerTexan]

that STUPID $550 bike

Haha, my darling fiance has a $600 AND a $3000-$4000 bike (he never would tell me how much the total cost to build it was). He thinks he'll be able to keep riding during residency, etc. Maybe he needs to read this thread...

But in all seriousness, thank you. I'm taking every word to heart. I am very aware that I am young, clueless, and in for some very hard times. However, my relationship with my fiance and future husband is the most important part of my life (after God), and he is my best friend. The thought of us both being miserable or growing apart because we didn't handle well what we know will be a tough part of our lives kills me.

I try and talk about stuff like this with other people, especially my mother, but even she just doesn't get it, because she hasn't been there.

So thank you! I will be sticking around for a long time...

[Ladybug]

I'll add minimize the debt you accrue during training. (!!!) Although it sounds like you'll be making lots of money someday it takes a loooooong time to pay it off. It's not worth it. Don't do it.

Make a list of things you've always wanted to do but never had the time. Books to read, classic movies to see, classes to take, languages to learn, learning how to bake, organizations to volunteer for, etc. Work on this list during your alone time during training. Be fruitful with your alone time. There will come a day when your time belongs to everyone else.

[NYCHoosier]

2) What wouldn't be a major shock, but was when you and your spouse
started the whole training process?

The fact that residents get paid CRAP (average is in the $40,000s).

Also you will get REALLY annoyed of strangers and even family ooohing and ahhing over the fact that your husband is going to be a doctor (like that is why you married him)... and always talking about how you must be or will be rich.

Hahaha... okay, so a little background. I moved to NY when I was 18 for undergrad and it's here that I've learned how much things cost, etc. Needless to say, the value of things is rather skewed for me, as is what is "rich", etc.
My first job out of undergrad was as a legal secretary making $45k/year for 35-hour weeks plus full benefits and 5 weeks of vacation and personal time. Let me repeat - as a secretary. With no experience.
I have a lot of investment banker friends. Their summer internships paid $25k (for 3 months of work). Their job offers (straight out of undergrad) were $80k plus a bonus of equal size. DH went to a top engineering undergrad in my Indiana hometown. His fraternity brothers and my friends who went there started at $60k+ (again, straight out of undergrad).

So, when he said he "wouldn't be making that much" during residency (you know, after he has is MD), I thought he meant like, $60k-$70k. I even argued with him when he told me it'd be closer to $40k. I said that was ridiculous, that there was no way an actual doctor, albeit one still training, would make less than a legal secretary who only works 35 hours a week.

Turns out I'm not all-knowing...


Anyway - I totally agree with everyone who says you are responsible for your own happiness. I had enough crappy and mediocre relationships prior to DH that this is one I didn't have to learn. One thing that I think helps with this, and this goes for all marriages, not just medical ones, is to have separate checking accounts in addition to the joint account(s). David Bach agrees with me on that one, so I feel confident advising other people to do it, haha. Some couples only use their joint account for joint expenses (bills, groceries, etc.) and divide the rest up. For us, we just give ourselves discretionary spending, and the joint money goes toward shared expenses, saving, unexpected expenses, dates, etc. Apparently my "allowance" is still generous, though, as that's how I paid to go to India for a week. It's also how I paid for the shoes which I call my babies. And it's great, because I don't have to tell DH that I just spent $600 on a pair of shoes, and he doesn't have to tell me he spent $200 on stereos for his ipod. Because, we pay for those things out of our own "play money". It also makes gift-giving easier. I check our joint accounts constantly, so I would notice if he spent $50 at a store. It'd ruin the surprise.

But anyway, I ramble. One thing I had to learn was that you don't "find time", you make it. DH is doing the whole med school thing, and I'm running around doing work, school, sorority stuff, church stuff, home stuff, social stuff, etc. If we look for time, we're never going to find it. There's always more studying that needs to be done, another dish that needs to be washed, another appointment that needs to be made. Some couples do date nights. That's not really our speed. We do nightly "cuddle time" for like, 5 minutes. Far less stressful that way. Find what works for you, and make time for each other. It makes a world of difference.

Well, my first two answers run along the line of Rapunzel's. No freaking way I'd ever do it again. Or, if I had it to do over, I'd talk dh out of med school altogether. He followed that path out of devotion to his parents, having been raised to be a doctor -- that's what good Indian sons do.

If I somehow got stuck on this merry-go-round again, I'd make better financial decisions while in training. We did a lot of "In X years you'll be making dawkter money, so it's fine to buy, eat out, etc." and are only now, 4 years out, really beginning to be able to enjoy/live on dh's post-training salary.

I'd also make sure that my dh understands the very true political element in medicine. I think sometimes they want to believe that medicine is pure and free of that icky business-world politicking. Nothing could be further from the truth. Medicine is rife with 'who you know' 'who likes you' 'who will write a letter for you' kind of stuff, and if you don't have people on your side, then they're against you (or at least they won't step up for you when it counts). We fought through a political sh!t -storm the last year of dh's training, and another member here is barely making it out of their own political hurricane Katrina. It's not pretty, but you really do need to think about it and not assume you and your colleagues will "rise above it". It's just not the way the game is played.

ETA: I'd also want to realize that the end of training is not the be-all, end-all and now everything is AWESOME. For many of us, the first year out of training was, in fact, the HARDEST. You both will have pinned a lot of stuff on "when he's done", or excused certian behaviors due to the rigors of training, or expected the awesome paycheck to cure all ills. Once they're out of training, the excuses start to dwindle, and you realize that not everything that might have been an issue can be attributed to training. It takes more work. We're 4 years out now, and in a better place in our marriage than we've been in 10 years (and we've been married 10 years). Conversely, I know of 2 couples that have divorced within the first 2 years out.

But in all seriousness, thank you. I'm taking every word to heart. I am very aware that I am young, clueless, and in for some very hard times.

We like this in a newbie. It's hard to stomach when people ask the same kind of questions you are and meet our answers with "Ahhhhh, but WE are so in love, I'm sure that won't happen to US." None of us want to step on people's hopes, and no one will have the exact same experiences that any of us old hags (or even the old time boys - I don't know the boy equivalent of hag) have had. But, as DCJenn says, there is a reason there is a support site for medical spouses, but we've yet to find one for plumber's wives. There are just some things about this process that will TAKE IT OUT OF YOU, and we're just trying to help people know what they're getting in to. 'Love will conquer all' just doesn't fly in this scenario.

[spotty_dog]

Haha, my darling fiance has a $600 AND a $3000-$4000 bike (he never would tell me how much the total cost to build it was). He thinks he'll be able to keep riding during residency, etc. Maybe he needs to read this thread...

Bicycles, I presume? I think our bike garage at one point had a value in the 10s of thousands. My husband raced right through med school, and in fact reached Cat 1 for road racing during MS4. He was in crazy good shape, riding hundreds of miles per week, and still smack at the top of his class. He's not nuts to own one good bike at the beginning of med school, not in my book!

Residency and starting a family, though, ended my hubby's racing career. He still rode 14 miles each way to work of course (on a beater commuter that he locked securely *ahem*) and tried to get an additional ride most days but there just wasn't reliable time for serious training (plus the racing scene kinda sucked.)

I'll add minimize the debt you accrue during training. (!!!) Although it sounds like you'll be making lots of money someday it takes a loooooong time to pay it off. It's not worth it. Don't do it.

For sure. The urge kept bubbling up during med school and residency to live a little, charge a little. Have some of the STUFF that people our age are "supposed" to have. But I always reined those urges in and for the most part we lived within our means whether that meant a $42K secretary salary during med school or a $45K resident salary during residency. We had modest rental homes with hand-me-down furnishings, never paid for cable or cell phones, etc. We didn't need those things to be happy, and now that we're out, that first big paycheck didn't have to go straight to an obnoxious credit card bill or anything. (It went to the government to pay estimated tax, LOL!)

Anyway, as for advice, my MIL (who was married to a gastroenterologist) gave me the best advice at the beginning of our training journey. *Live your own life*. Have your own hobbies, do your own thing. Include him when you can, but when you can't, don't stop living.

[Vishenka69]

1. What would you do differently this time around?

Not wait for DH to be done with training to figure out what I want to do with my life. Working in finance during his training has kept us out of credit card debt but didn't make me any happier or satisfied with my choices. I wish I gone to grad school while he was studying even if that meant more loans. I thought I was doing the responsible thing at the time by working but now I feel very resentful for having to wait this long.

2. What wouldn't be a major shock, but was when you and your spouse started the whole training process?

How freaking hard training is. I was warned about that but didn't quite realize just how much it would change us and our relationship. That he won't be able to put me ahead of his career and family until the shit hit the fan.

3. Advice.

Everyone's situation is different. We all got married and had (or didn't have) kids at different points of our lives and training. There's no formula that works for everyone. Every med school, residency program and fellowship is different. You have to figure out what works for YOU.

Looking back I'm glad that we stayed in NYC during med school and residency and that we waited to have kids until he was done with all the boards. I'm also glad we moved to a semi-rural area after being done.

[SoonerTexan]

Bicycles, I presume? I think our bike garage at one point had a value in the 10s of thousands. My husband raced right through med school, and in fact reached Cat 1 for road racing during MS4. He was in crazy good shape, riding hundreds of miles per week, and still smack at the top of his class. He's not nuts to own one good bike at the beginning of med school, not in my book!

That's impressive, really impressive. That's DF's goal (maybe not Cat 1, but to keep racing)...but we'll see I guess. I don't really want to let him know someone was able to do it! On the bright side, he's fanaticism for road racing got me into cycling, and he is really good about making time to take rides with me, at my own pace. He even bought me my first set of shoes/clipless pedals and they arrived today!

One thing I did make him promise was that he could cut back on XBox once we got married--I spend way too many hours "spending time together" watching him play. He agreed that he wouldn't play when I'm around, only when he has free time on his own.

I was floored when he said that...there is hope!

We like this in a newbie. It's hard to stomach when people ask the same kind of questions you are and meet our answers with "Ahhhhh, but WE are so in love, I'm sure that won't happen to US." None of us want to step on people's hopes, and no one will have the exact same experiences that any of us old hags (or even the old time boys - I don't know the boy equivalent of hag) have had. But, as DCJenn says, there is a reason there is a support site for medical spouses, but we've yet to find one for plumber's wives. There are just some things about this process that will TAKE IT OUT OF YOU, and we're just trying to help people know what they're getting in to. 'Love will conquer all' just doesn't fly in this scenario.

As for this--maybe it's because my mother is a counselor (marriage and family), so I 've always had a good idea of what problems couples face, and more importantly, that actively trying to work on them does wonders.

I'm a planner--I like to know what I'm up against and prepare in advance. It's okay if the next 10 years are going to be hard--I just want to have a decent idea of what to expect, so we can do the best we can during that time and grow closer.

I've always been a big believer in the idea the "Love is a choice" and takes hard work--good relationships just dont "happen"

[spotty_dog]

On the bright side, he's fanaticism for road racing got me into cycling, and he is really good about making time to take rides with me, at my own pace. He even bought me my first set of shoes/clipless pedals and they arrived today!

Yay! I got into cycling during med school too, I even raced a little. I think that being able to share that hobby, ride together and talk shop, was HUGE for our happiness and communication and general success as a married couple during med school.