How does fellowship compare to residency?

[alison]

Thanks, Jenn, for answering the question--I need to redo my siggy.

Q2 in house. That is just wrong!

You're making me very very nervous for Nov and Dec when he is on Trauma. I guess I should just REALLY appreciate this month hope the "easiness" of this month keeps me on through till next year.

Keep in mind (well, you wouldn't know this) that this was 1999 -- before the "80 hour work week". It *should* be better, only b/c they aren't allowed to work as long ... but I say "should" b/c not all programs follow the rules, and Trauma is one where it would be harder to do so.

[L.Jane]

Keep in mind (well, you wouldn't know this) that this was 1999 -- before the "80 hour work week". It *should* be better, only b/c they aren't allowed to work as long ... but I say "should" b/c not all programs follow the rules, and Trauma is one where it would be harder to do so.

They "try" to keep it to 80 hours, but every resident here plays with their hours when they log them. September and this month have been so nice with him getting home between 5-7. I have gotten very spoiled. I need to remember that its not typically this way. I am sure next month will go back to him getting home around 8 or 9 if I am lucky.

"playing with" the hours is a lot better than the program flat-out expecting the residents to lie, which still happens quite a lot some places.

"playing with" the hours is a lot better than the program flat-out expecting the residents to lie, which still happens quite a lot some places.

Two out of three of the away rotations that S has gone to have had this problem. He said there is NO way he would JUST do 80 hours because it is expected that you do more, and if not it's not looking good on you.

[L.Jane]

Two out of three of the away rotations that S has gone to have had this problem. He said there is NO way he would JUST do 80 hours because it is expected that you do more, and if not it's not looking good on you.

There is this total double talk at J's hospital. They talk about it only being 80 hours and have this whole "conversation" with you about how they can "help" you not go over the 80 hours if you log in more then 80, so everyone just plays with their hours to make sure its just 80. I would guess its more like 100. Because if you are one of the ones they have to "help" then you are a problem. Then again, non of the residents see this as a problem. J's said to me before, you have to get what you need done done, and you can't set time limits on it. What makes me more nervous then the 80 hour time limit is the surgeries he goes into after being on call for almost 30 or over 30 hours with little to no sleep. And then driving home.. but I've totally just hijacked this thread. Whoops. sorry

There is this total double talk at J's hospital. They talk about it only being 80 hours and have this whole "conversation" with you about how they can "help" you not go over the 80 hours if you log in more then 80, so everyone just plays with their hours to make sure its just 80. I would guess its more like 100. Because if you are one of the ones they have to "help" then you are a problem. Then again, non of the residents see this as a problem. J's said to me before, you have to get what you need done done, and you can't set time limits on it. What makes me more nervous then the 80 hour time limit is the surgeries he goes into after being on call for almost 30 or over 30 hours with little to no sleep. And then driving home.. but I've totally just hijacked this thread. Whoops. sorry

I completely get what you're saying. It will be interesting to see what happens next year in the first year of residency. S is one of those people who won't say no. He wants to be the very best at his job, and will work his butt off to get it. SO, I am assuming if the trend is to not follow the 80 work week he won't be. I don't argue... I let him do what he has to do.

And now I will also stop the hijack

Not a hijack! This is my life now. I was just hoping that by next year he'd have a day (or two or three or four) off a month. The single parenting thing is just really weighing on me alot right now as the toddler is nearing 3 and testing my limits all.day.long. Moving to a new place with no friends or family to help give me a break is really going to take me to a whole new level I guess.

[L.Jane]

Not a hijack! This is my life now. I was just hoping that by next year he'd have a day (or two or three or four) off a month. The single parenting thing is just really weighing on me alot right now as the toddler is nearing 3 and testing my limits all.day.long. Moving to a new place with no friends or family to help give me a break is really going to take me to a whole new level I guess.

I hear ya. I hope you are able to move to a place with at least a few connections, or be able to make connections really quick. They do love to push the limits at three don't they? Well, and 4, 5, 6... well always.. or maybe that was just me. I continually apologize to my mom for being obnoxious

[SuzySunshine]

80 hours doesn't apply to medical students - just residents.

[Flynn]

I've been asked if someone offered me 5 million dollars if we'd do it all over again (training). It's an easy answer. NO NO NO NO!!!!!

Five million isn't even close....50????? (ha ha)

[HouseofWool]

80 hours doesn't apply to medical students - just residents.

E's school was really pretty good about this. He rarely put in more than 80 at the hospital. That of course does not include all of the prep time at home - so alot of weeks it was close to 100 hours. In all honestly, I quit counting, it was so depressing.

80 hours doesn't apply to medical students - just residents.

No, I know this! I just meant that it was what he observed with the 1st, 2nd yr residents at the away rotations. They were DEFINITELY not working anywhere close to the 80+ hr work week.

[ladymoreta]

There is this total double talk at J's hospital. They talk about it only being 80 hours and have this whole "conversation" with you about how they can "help" you not go over the 80 hours if you log in more then 80, so everyone just plays with their hours to make sure its just 80. I would guess its more like 100. Because if you are one of the ones they have to "help" then you are a problem. Then again, non of the residents see this as a problem. J's said to me before, you have to get what you need done done, and you can't set time limits on it. What makes me more nervous then the 80 hour time limit is the surgeries he goes into after being on call for almost 30 or over 30 hours with little to no sleep. And then driving home.. but I've totally just hijacked this thread. Whoops. sorry

I know I've said this before, but this just makes me angry... I know that it's important for residents to have experience, and it's pretty much impossible for surgery residents to get all they need while following the 80 hour rule. And no one wants to add on more years to residency. But I just find it disgusting that they are pretty much forced into putting their patients at such a huge risk by working under sleep deprivation. I know it's not their choice (usually), but they're still the ones who will end up with the tarnished record if something goes wrong due to an error they made when they haven't slept in two days. And the patients are the ones who will lose their lives or have to deal with the consequences of botched surgeries.

I've seen DH come home after Q2 call, and I wouldn't even ask him to try to boil water in that state, much less try to keep a patient alive. I'm sure the adrenaline kicks in, and he does much better in the OR, but I certainly wouldn't trust a resident to do surgery on me or any of my loved ones unless I'd verified their schedule for the previous week, and most patients don't even know to ask about that. They trust the hospitals to provide quality care.

Anyway, rant over... I guess the 80 hour "rule" is better than nothing.

[MarissaNicole]

Not a hijack! This is my life now. I was just hoping that by next year he'd have a day (or two or three or four) off a month. The single parenting thing is just really weighing on me alot right now as the toddler is nearing 3 and testing my limits all.day.long. Moving to a new place with no friends or family to help give me a break is really going to take me to a whole new level I guess.

Oh my gosh this sounds horrible! Please tell me this is because he is cheif and it has not been like this his entire residency?

I am mentally preparing for weeks of 100+ hours (based on DH's observations on aways) but at the two programs he's been at the residents usually get either a weekend off or two separate days off a month. You poor poor thing! If I lived closer I would come babysit to give you some time off! You seriously deserve a vacation! Any chance fellowship will be close to family or friends? How long is your DH's fellowship?