Anyone having a good time during residency?

hey all -
forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I just have to ask: Does anyone (resident and spouse) enjoy their residency? I realize that a residency is not exactly a piece of cake, but is it all doom and gloom? Do any residents enjoy their experience? Do any spouses not worry tremendously about their husband/wife resident? I've interacted with a number of G1 and G2 IM and FP docs where I work, and most seem pretty happy. Yet so far I've only heard about the dark side of medical education.

And what about medical school? Have people found medical school to be particularly hard on the student and spouse?

Thanks all.
Adcadet

[SueC]

Good question--I've never really thought about it! Yes, I'd say during my husband's residency and now fellowship there are more good times than bad times. He didn't enjoy the actualy residency as much as he is the fellowship, but I don't think it was awful for him either. When I try to think what the good times actually were, though, they aren't related to my husband's career at all. Having our two daughters and everything that we have done outside of medicine were what made it good. I guess it was nice to have something take the focus off of the long hours and low pay. I read your introduction post and I have to say the fact that you are even thinking about how all of this will impact your future wife and future children puts you a gigantic step ahead of us! We jumped in with both feet and never talked about how any of it would affect our marriage or parenting. At any rate, welcome to the boards!

Thanks Sue.

Yeah, my fiance and I have been thinking about our future for a long time now. We've been dating (don't laugh too hard) since we were 13 (we've had a few breakups, one that lasted a year and a half). We are also the type to plan things out.

Anyway, good to hear that not everybody is completely devistated by the residency/fellowship training process.

[JaneDoe]

I can actually say that my husband is enjoying his internship. Both of us were pleasantly surprised. Because like you, we heard all of the doom and gloom stories too. Perhaps, the stories were so terrible that the real thing couldn't have possibly been so bad. Or it could be that he is doing a medicine internship, rather than a surgical one. I don't know. Don't get me wrong, there are days where he is burned out, tired and fed up. But, if you were to ask him if he is enjoying residency overall, I guarantee you he would answer yes!

However, he begins his ophthalmology residency in July, and he is getting very nervous. He tells me that just when he began to feel comfortable in medicine and everything is going smoothly, he will have to start over from scratch. He worries that he "doesn't know anything" about ophthalmology. But, I remind him that this is how he felt before starting internship year, and this is the natural anxiety that anyone would feel before starting what is essentially a new job.

I guess my point is that yes, there are days that "suck." But, overall my husband is very happy. As for me, the medical spouse, I agree that internship year has not been nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I actually enjoy having the nights he's on call to myself. I can come home from work and just "veg". That may sound terrible. I hope not.

[migirl]

I have to agree, although we are only completing intern year now, it hasn't been that bad. We had heard about how awful general surgery internship was going to be, but it hasn't been nearly as horrible as everyone made it out to be. I don't feel like I've been "abandoned" by my husband, he's actually been around quite a bit. Don't get me wrong, there have been some rotations that are more "challenging" than others, but I think overall it's been pretty good. Maybe it has to do with the program that we are at, I don't know. All I know is that intern year is supposed to be the worst and we've made it through OK!

And I have admit that I also enjoy my evenings alone when he is at the hospital. I don't think it's bad at all, everyone needs time to themselves!

I am sure that you and your fiance will do just fine, you seem to have thought everything through pretty well which is more than I can say for us!

~Jane

[Rapunzel]

My husband is just finishing up his second year of a five year rads residency. He absolutely loves his chosen specialty and comes home almost everyday saying how much he enjoys his program and how happy he is. He gets very excited about what he does everyday and looks forward to work - that's a good thing, too, because this last month he's worked 105 hours/week every week! So, I'd count my husband in the NON-doom-and-gloom residency camp. I'm very happy for him - it so terribly important to get up every morning (or evening now that he is working the night shift) and be positive and energetic about your life and what you do everyday.

Medical school was not as happy. The medical school my husband attended was one of the big names and the residency he is at is one of the top if not the top program for his specialty in the US - but there is a HUGE difference in atmosphere between the two institutions. I would stake money that a great deal of a student's or resident's happiness is directly tied to the way their program approaches teaching medicine. Some institutions are very laid back emotionally and some institutions reek of frenzied competitiveness. My husband's residency is the former situtation whereas his med school was the latter. I would pay very close attention to the students at the schools you apply to. Ask some of them (those who are not on the admissions committee) about their experience and the reputation the school has when dealing with the students.

To some degree the difference I think we face emotionally between med school and residency also has to do with the point in career: In medical school you are still in tough competition with the other students - you'll ultimately have to "sell" yourself again in order to get the residency you want. In residency, though, you really don't have to worry about that competitiveness as much (unless you are deadset on making chief or there's a highly competitive fellowship you desire). So, I think the difficulty level emotionally speaking also has to do with the point you are in your career.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Bottom line is he's happy and I'm happy that he's happy. Don't get me wrong - there are difficulties to overcome in even the best of residencies BUT my husband truly enjoys his residency program.

[DCJenn]

Can residency be fun- without a doubt.

Internship really sucked for my husband (I kind of go over the reasons why in the diaries- we've got some interesting diaries so go and check them out, too) but I tell you second year was light years away from internship year and Third year? We've actually never spent so much time together before- ever. It's taken some adjustment on both of our parts. It's like "wow- you're still here. When are you on-call again?"

We've had a blast this year. We also have the added benefit of his being military with prior service and he went to USUHS so we don't have the income issues- not to mention that I'm now making significantly more than I was when we moved here. That has definitely lightened the mental load. We don't have kids so we've been able to really work at paying off debt and finishing our home improvements (just in time to move!)

It's good that you are thinking about this stuff way in advance. I can tell you that the 80 hour work week regulation has impacted my husbands program in both good and bad ways. Next years interns will have no idea of the way things used to be though so hopefully the growing pains will smooth out.

Good luck-

Jenn

[mommax3]

Hi,

I think your perception of residency will depend a lot on the specialty you choose and the type of program you match at, like others have said. My husband finished a military OB/GYN residency almost two years ago, and it was pretty brutal. Of course we have happy memories of that time (it was four years of our lives, after all! ) but it was really, really hard. He was always EXTREMELY sleep deprived, to the point that he didn't even feel tired anymore. We couldn't have a conversation unless he was moving around because every time he held still he fell asleep -- I am not exaggerating here. He worked at two hospitals, about 20 minutes apart, and several residents wrecked their cars driving between them, or home, post-call. We finally got a cell phone so that I could talk to him while he drove home from the hospital furthest from our house (30 minutes) because he told me he kept falling asleep. We didn't need a cell phone before that because all of his call was in-house. He worked an average of 100 hours a week, which means that sometimes he worked even more than that. He does feel that he was well-trained, though. His intern year was the easiest of the four years because he rotated through other specialties (family medicine, internal medicine, ER) that had better hours than OB. I thought at the end of intern year that the worst part of residency was over (based on what I had heard from others) and I was really in for a shock! He loves what he does, though, and during residency, his favorite rotation was OB (as opposed to GYN, GYN-ONC, Reproductive Endocrinology, etc.) because there was always something going on. He still feels the same way, so I know he chose the right thing, even though it is at times hard on our family. I would rather have him on call a lot and happy in his work than home more often and dreading every day.

Med school was not bad at all -- he set up a routine and studied for 2 hours or so every weeknight, every Saturday morning for 4 hours, and not at all on Sundays. He went to one of the largest med schools in the nation, in the midwest. I don't know how competitive they are -- it was the only med school in our home state.

I think the 80 hour work week is long overdue and hopefully will improve residency for everyone. For what it is worth, though, my husband (who is all for the new regulations) thinks that it will be hard for residents in his specialty to be adequately trained with a mandated 80 hour work week -- there has been talk of adding a year to the OB/GYN residency because of this.

Sally

[peggyfromwastate]

Thanks everyone for these posts! As we are about to start this journey, I enjoy reading some sort of positive thoughts for the times to come! Sally- you're the 2nd person (that I remember) who said their husband's didn't study at all on Sundays! Yes! I hope my DH can swing something like that!

Also, I wouldn't mind a year being added to residency training in exchange for 80-hour work weeks. That's probably just because I want DH to be as involved in our daily lives as a family as possible, and also I agree with the arguments that a resident who is consistently working 120-hour plus weeks probably will be so exhausted that he could make some critical errors that otherwise would be avoided... Or that just could be possibly because I have no idea what I'm talking about... HMMMM.

Anyway-- Adcadet this is a great board to come to for friendly and truthful advice. Whenever we have a question about what the future may be like, I tell my husband that I'll just check what the spouses have said. They know the facts!

Peggy

[Rapunzel]

When are these 80 hour work weeks supposed to start? I have to say the one thing I am not pleased about with life in residency at the moment are these 100+ hour weeks he is putting in. I could definitely do with less of those! HOWEVER radiology is already a five year residency - I really don't want him to have a longer residency than that!!!

HIPPA started in April.
80hr weeks begin in July (yeah right!).

If a specialty(ie. Hem/Onc) can't meet the 80hr cut-off, they can make a request to the department head who in turns makes a request to whatever governing body and they can work interns/residents more hours.
But I think that is a hospital to hospital rule. At least here with Children's Mercy it is.

Just a little of what I have heard.

[DCJenn]

They can only apply to increase the hours up to 10%- i.e. 88 hours a week. It's supposed to start July 1 but here they've already started to try to get all of the kinks worked out. My husband also thinks that they're going to have to add another year to the peds residency as well.

Some of the areas that are starting to have problems are things like if they're on call (which for them means in the hospital- first and second years cover specific parts- i.e. NICU, PICU or the Ward and the 3rd years cover everything) the following morning they are not supposed to see patients- they're supposed to be able to complete their notes and go home. The problem comes in where they should follow an admitted child for continuity of care. They're all working more than the 80 but not documenting it.

We'll see...

Jenn

[houseelf]

Adcadet-

In response to your original question: Absolutely, there have been great aspects to residency. This should give you some serious hope 8) because I can pretty much be classified as the chief complainer on the boards. I'm not going to lie to you, however, there have been some aspects of this residency that just about did us in at one point.

There is a real spirit in doing a residency. I really don't even know how to explain the commaraderie aspect other than to liken it to some of the travel that I've done. When I was young and poor I backpacked through foreign countries, everyone came together and there was this great sense of community. Residency is a lot like this. We get together with other residents and joke about taking doggie bags from pharmaceutical dinners, our denied credit cards, our fabulous garage sale finds, and the unbelievable long hours that we trudge through. There is a real feeling amongst us that isn't present amongst other professionals. It is sort of a "We're all in this together" feeling and it feels really close.

Conversely, as I've gotten older, I stay in relatively nice hotels. Honestly, I don't like it as much. When people get older, they stay at nice hotels and never really meet their fellow travelers. Everything is neat and private. People aren't as real somehow. I think that this sort of effect will probably happen when we finish residency too. Although we still have such a long way to go, I need not worry for awhile.

Does anyone else understand what I'm trying to say in this poorly articulated response or am I out in left field?

Kelly

I know what you mean, Kelly. There is a sense that everyone doing a residency knows how hard it is for their colleagues to get through it, too. All the residents can commiserate with one another (and spouses, too, hence this wonderful board!), and they all spend so much time together (more than we get to spend with them sometimes) that it is a huge community. Not to say that it's all hard, but it is definitely a challenge at times and is not like a 9 to 5 job. Welcome, Adcadet, by the way! We always say we'll look back on this part of our lives as the five years we were in DC for residency and fellowship (my husband's doing medicine and is about to start an ID fellowship in July). Residency is a pocket of life that we all go through. It is doable, it's not all bad, but it's not a cakewalk!

On the 80-hour work week, my DH's hospital has been trying out a few different ideas now so that things are set up in July. There are inevitably going to be problems though, because thee is also work to do, and most residents have a hard time just dropping things in midair if they've been there for too long. Rapunzel, I had heard the Brigham already was on the reduced work week, at least in the Surgery department???

Jill