Your insight please?

[Vishenka69]

We're three years out and while we're finally comfortable, there's no sudden windfall at the end of training. We still shop in IKEA and clearance racks, DH still drives a beat up Corolla we bought after med school and I never step foot in BBB or Michael's without coupons. I don't know of a single specialty that pays in a single paycheck resident's annual salary. DH's current paychecks are nice but not to the point that we no longer have to budget or look at prices when we shop (that includes groceries). Instead of splurging, we're trying to aggressively save while we can, because nobody knows what the future holds for medicine.

[spotty_dog]

As I read the blog, my eyebrows went higher and higher into my hairline. I think my incredulity was based on the fact that she seems to want to dispel the dawkter's wife stereotype on one hand by emphasizing how dismal and squalid her life is (at a household income greater than that of HALF of US households) while at the same time painting every post-training family with one brush. What if I don't *want* the leather seats and the brand-name clothes? What if IKEA and thrift store finds are what works for me and my family? I think what bothers me about the post is that it tends to encourage the poor fiscal decisions that plague a lot of people right out of training, the immense pressure to keep up with the Joneses by buying big houses, fancy cars, new furniture *all at once*. It's just not like that. It's easy to be responsible and to budget when your income roughly matches your expenses. Just don't spend! But assuming we'll all be Scrooge McDuck with a swimming pool full of money by July after the last year of residency can hurt people in residency (who spend assuming it'll come back to them shortly) and newly out of training (who overspend before they have a feel for how far the paycheck goes). Learning to balance retirement savings and college accounts and an improved standard of living without going overboard, it isn't easy, but it's necessary, yanno?

I dunno. DH and I comment every time he pays a restaurant check and realize that dropping $50 on dinner and drinks for two is hardly anything to blink about any more. Just a year after buying our first new TV, we're talking about upgrading it. Holy splurge! But tops on our list aren't expensive cars and vacations; we're mostly just reveling in the much more mundane aspects of being so gosh-darned blessed: the emergency fund is nice and full, we're on track for retirement and education accounts, and DH is home a ton and we can afford to enjoy it with daytrips and activities. Yay us! But maybe I should be mourning a life full of designer shopping instead.

[poky]

I don't know of a single specialty that pays in a single paycheck resident's annual salary.

I have a feeling I know where that comes from. If an attending's paycheck came once a month, there are quite a few specialties where one of those would be the size of a resident's annual salary.

As to the rest, I can't really comment. DH and I came at this whole life so completely differently from most, financially, it's not even funny. 13 years of two engineering salaries and a habit of building up savings by living well within our means combines to make me feel faintly guilty about how well off we are, comparatively, when conversations like this come up. Going into attendinghood isn't going to really change much. We'll probably replace my currently-13-yo car (only one I've ever owned) at some point, but my main priority is MPG; I'm hoping to be able to hold off till all-electric gains enough traction. We'll definitely move (can't see us settling here long-term), but we don't want or need a bigger house than we already have. Main advantages will be having more choice in where to live, and more ability to travel.

I have absolutely no fear of feeling like I have to keep up with the Joneses once we have more money; we've got our reasons for our atypical choices (financial and otherwise), and other people's discomfort with or confusion about those choices aren't going to sway us.

[PrincessFiona]

Heidi, I was naive too. And hopeful. And I still am. Let's all be honest with ourselves. Of course our spouses chose medicine for some altruistic reasons ... but really, they could have done a lot of things to *help* humanity. Financial security is definitely at the top of the list of most med school applicants. I remember as residency ended that one woman whose spouse was not going on to fellowship actually brought pictures of every minute detail of her new house ... from the curtain rods that held the specially made curtains for the house to the cabinet drawer pulls (which seemed pretty average to me). People oohhed and ahhhed over every picture and I admit sort of having my own mental dream. We were going on to fellowship and I tried to push it back, but I felt a lot of resentment about how we lived. And yes, we were still better off than 1/2 of America...I'm going to put myself out there though and say that people who spend 8 years in college and 4 years of training should earn better than someone with a GED. I'm sorry. I have said it. I suppose we could always convert to communism in America though and then everyone can earn about the same regardless of how many years of education and training they have.

Her family bought a new car that she was really excited to show off at our final med spouse meeting before the year ended. Of course, as my dumb luck would have it, I ended up accidentally bumping it when I tried to parallel park. There was a scratch on her bumper and she went crazy .:0 We exchanged insurance info and our insurance covered it completely. It was an accident, but she was sooo floored that her new car had been tainted (even though the bumper looked brand new) that she refused to talk to me again. In some ways I understand. We did residency before the 80 hour work week rule...we all had a lot of debt...and were exhausted.

Memories .... light the corners of my mind.....

LOL Don't know where I'm going with this anymore....

I personally just think we should cut the writer slack. I didn't really find her post offensive at all...I think she's just hopeful that the HUGE medical school debt and relentless residency will also have a financial reward. Don't we all.

Kris

[rainbabies]

I agree with everything Heidi and Kris said.

[PrincessFiona]

Your insight please?

What's so bad about a little ignorant optimism?

Hey. Ignorant optimism is what got me through the storm of training and is what I tap into every day now to see me through the stormy waters of raising teenagers! LOL. Without a regular dose, I'd be drooling in a corner somewhere!

[HouseofWool]

I think what bothered me the most was the blatent consumerism of her dreams. It wasn't focused on having better quality time with her spouse, it was the big house, big vacation etc. Honestly? All I wanted was E to come home and not be a freak about the stress he was under. Yes, we/he is in debt up to his eyeballs and yes, retirement seems like a pipe dream, but my dream was to own a home, not the biggest fanciest house on the block. A modest home. And to start saving for retirement. Really normal things that normal people do.

To me it was never about being a doctor's wife, it was about being E's wife. (granted, that has changed, but you get the picture)

[diggitydot]

To me it was never about being a doctor's wife, it was about being E's wife.

This.

X 1,000,000

[v-girl]

And yes, we were still better off than 1/2 of America...I'm going to put myself out there though and say that people who spend 8 years in college and 4 years of training should earn better than someone with a GED. I'm sorry. I have said it.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[PrincessFiona]

Well, I think wanting more time to be together with your spouse is a given. I didn't have lofty dawkter's wife dreams that didn't involve my spouse either. I find it very far-fetched though that you would be willing to go into massive debt and put up with the clustermunch of internship year and residency hell to earn enough to get by.

BTW, my dream house might be your dream house. After all, we lived in an apartment across from prostitutes during fellowship before we moved into the rental that was inhabited mostly by squirrels and mouse the size of small cats. I don't need 6000 square feet and I don't have it. Also, I'm perfectly ok to sit on my $50 used furniture store chair across from my IKEA couch. I challenge anyone answering this though to say that they never, ever imagined what it would be like to not have to run the numbers before going grocery shopping after so much training and debt. I truly think that if you say you would be happy just getting by that you're being dishonest...and it is NOT about be a doctor's wife ... I think we all want more time with our spouses as a number one priority ... and sipping margaritas on the beach in the caribbean would be a great way to spend time with that spouse. We're still waiting on that one ... but some day.

Kris

[rainbabies]

'To me it was never about being a doctor's wife, it was about being E's wife.'

that statement bugs me, or maybe offends me? I can't quite explain why, but it does. I never went in to this whole 'super fun' journey so I could say that. We've been together since undergrad, which many here have too. I don't feel like I'm married to a doctor. I married a student, who worked full time in medical records, who busted his ass to get where we're finally at.

[L.Jane]

'To me it was never about being a doctor's wife, it was about being E's wife.'

that statement bugs me, or maybe offends me? I can't quite explain why, but it does. I never went in to this whole 'super fun' journey so I could say that.

Can you explain that more? Why does saying that why one puts up with what they did because they wanted to be with someone bug you?

I am going through this journey because I love J. Sure, there are days I think, I wish J was anything but a DR. but I deal with it because I love him. So its about being his partner. If it wasn't, Id be single.

[rainbabies]

I just said I couldn't really explain myself.
I guess I just feel that she's stating we all want to say we're married to a doctor. Or am I completely misunderstanding the entire thing? Which is possible since I'm lacking sleep and just got back from a three day trip with three kids and a pissy husband. If I mis understand, sorry.

[L.Jane]

I just said I couldn't really explain myself.
I guess I just feel that she's stating we all want to say we're married to a doctor. Or am I completely misunderstanding the entire thing? Which is possible since I'm lacking sleep and just got back from a three day trip with three kids and a pissy husband. If I mis understand, sorry.

No worries. I understand being tired. I can't speak for her, but I *think* that was her point, that it wasn't about saying she was married to a Dr. It was about saying she was with the man she was with. Whether a dr or a truck driver. It was about saying she was his wife. That's what I got from it... but I too am on little sleep. I got to drive J to the hospital at 5:30 this morning.

[PrincessFiona]

Come on, people...posts like

I am going through this journey because I love J.

are condescending. Of COURSE we are going through this journey out of love for our spouses. What is this ... an attack of the morality police? It IS insulting to imply that wanting to have a better life for you and your family is somehow inferior...that dreaming of a nice home, nice furniture, or vacations with family/spouse are somehow antithetic to being that loving spouse.

I didn't marry my spouse because of his chosen profession. There are many, many days that I would wish that he could have found his passion elsewhere. It is the same for others here. Is it wrong during the middle of a strenuous residency to dream of a better life for yourselves? No. Do you love your spouse less if you imagine the rewards of training that might benefit you both? No. There isn't a single member here who is a gold digger or is in it for the money, but the whole "I did it for love, not money" sure implies that anyone who thought about the financial rewards wasn't pure of heart.

DH, btw, used to look at cars when he was having a tough month...not that he ever bought that super-expensive one ... but it got him through. I don't challenge that he is a good doctor who cares about his patients, but if that is what heped him get through a tough month...more power to him.

I think I'll find my cave...

Kris