Looking for Ideas

That does sound really stressful. While debt does cause us a fair amount of stress at times, we haven't really been in the same situation. So, I don't know if you'll find these comments helpful but I've thought of a few things.

That really stinks that you are so close to qualifying for food stamps. Even though you didn't qualify for that, there may be other forms of assistance that you do qualify for.
-- I assume your 8 yo is in school and the 5 yo might be too. You might want to see if they qualify for free or reduced school lunch.

--If your 5 yo is starting kindergarten, does the school offer a full-day program? If this is a good fit for your child, any additional tuition for the all day program is sometimes waived based on income. Maybe that could free up some time for you to do more in-home child care.

-- I remember that a spouse of one of my husband's classmates had an in-home daycare so she could stay home with her child. If you feel like you could take on more in this area, maybe you could post your info on a medical school bulletin board. The medical school may be a good source for potential work in that regard.

--I know that some schools hire part time classroom help. Maybe you could check at your child's school? I don't know if that would be worth your while if you have to put your youngest in daycare.

--My husband's residency program does not charge an employee contribution for the health care plan. (So my daughter and I are covered at no cost to us). I don't know if this is the norm or not. If you are paying for health insurance for your kids, you may want to look into your state's Child Health Insurance Plan (CHIP). I saw on your profile you live in PA -- here is the web address: http://www.insurance.state.pa.us/html/chip.html

--Kris posted (somewhere! I can't remember where!) something about a physician loan program through Sun Trust (???). It sounds like you can get $7K per year and only pay interest until residency is up. Maybe that interest rate would be better than your credit card rate.

--I know this can be a really touchy subject....but....are there any family members that could help you out? From whom you would feel comfortable receiving help?

--If you haven't already, shop around for the best credit card rates. Even though you feel like you're in a tight spot, you still have room to negotiate. I used to have a website that showed the lowest credit card interest rates, etc, but I can't find it. Sorry! If I come across it I'll post it.

That does just sound so stressful. Even though you are well past halfway through the residency, I'm sure those 2 years are feeling so far away. Hang in there.

[Rapunzel]

nmh had a variety of suggestions definitely worth trying. I have one more: moonlighting. My own husband (entering third year of residency) is in the process of taking step 3 and obtaining his license. It does cost hundreds of dollars to do this but if we can scrape together the funds then he will be able to spend at least a weekend out of every month moonlighting. I had another friend who was in a position very similar to yours during residency and the only way they really survived was through the moonlighting option. You might see if your husband's residency program has an "education" or resident expense fund that will reimburse you guys for the cost of the license and the step 3 fee (that is what my husband's program has). At least that would open the door for a more permanant and stable source of extra income.

Moonlighting is definitely a good way to bring in some extra cash. Friends of ours who did this were able to get some financial relief via moonlighting. One word of warning though, is that they felt they brought in less than they expected (maybe the earnings were taxed at a higher rate?). Anyway, they still felt it was worthwhile.

You may be able to get some relief in paying for step 3 and licensing costs by writing off the expenses as work-related costs. This probably wouldn't apply if the costs are reimbursed (by program or military). There are several factors and conditions you have to meet. For example, your expenses have to exceed a certain percent of your income and the deduction applies to dollars over that amount. This statement is NOT tax advice but just a suggestion to talk to a tax professional to see if the deduction would apply in your case.

I don't think you are being selfish at all for wanting time to volunteer in your kids classroom. I understand completely! And I was marvelling at your energy level and being able to care for three of your own and two others. [/u]

I know this sounds like racking up more debt, but rather than using credit cards, could you try a physician loan? My husband got a loan for $20,000. during his last year of residency (no job lined up yet) from Suntrust physician loans, and his credit was not great at the time, and his salary was not, either. We were in a similar situation and HAD to do it, we had already maxed out our credit cards. These type of loans allow you to pay only interest during residency, and the interest is a lot lower than most credit cards. Also, hang in there, things will get better financially, the point you are at is the toughest.
Good luck!
Renee

[SueC]

I can so identify with you! We have two years left to go and suddenly we are strapped financially. We were kind of hanging in there for the last 5 years, but we have finally maxed out our credit cards. This is what we are doing. We just took out a much larger 2nd mortgage to pay off the one we already had plus all of our credit card debt. At least the interest will be tax deductible and the one payment is slightly less than all of the previous payments put together. I have once again put my student loans into forbearance. We are thinking of going to the cash envelope system because we keep coming up short at the end of the month and think we are spending more than we realize on non-necessities. My husband isn't moonlighting because he is studying for boards--I hope he will eventually but he is sure dragging his feet on that one! As far as making money out of the home, I used to do daycare, but it was stressing me out too much so I started a medical billing business. Although I'm finally bringing in some money, it is kind of an expensive business to start so it might not be the solution you are looking for. I think using your experience with paralegal work is something worth looking in to. Have you tried calling a few area lawyers and just feeling them out for job opportunities. You never know what you might turn up. A random phone call I made a few years ago got me a job as a news monitor, which I did from home for at least a year. Anyhow, good luck! I hope you find a solution soon because I know how stressful being in this position can be!

We are thinking of going to the cash envelope system because we keep coming up short at the end of the month and think we are spending more than we realize on non-necessities.

We have been doing the cash envelope system for so long now that I kind of forgot about it until I read your post, Sue. For us, it was a godsend. I think we started using it about 5 years ago. At the beginning of every month, we went to the bank to get the agreed on amount of cash. We started out with a lot of envelopes -- spending money for me, him, going out together, pets supplies (we always overspent at petsmart), and one other category I forget. The individual spending money included coffee, going to lunch, haircuts, clothes, etc. If we had big expenses (one of us needed a new suit or something) we would use other funds or save for it. You can try as many or as few categories as you wish. We decided not to do groceries because we actually didn't overspend as badly on that. We have now gotten to a point where we can pay at Petsmart with a check and we share an envelope for my/his/together money. You really have to be committed to it for the envelope system to work. It was hard to get used to at first because we would usually forget to bring cash when we went out and would end up charging the expense. So, to work around this, we would take out of the envelope what we spent on credit and deposit it back in the bank to use for the next credit card bill. We rarely forget cash these days. And if we run out of cash before the end of the month -- that's it.

It has really helped us a lot and I think has led to far fewer arguements about money. The other thing that helped was developing a realistic monthly budget and trying to stick with that.

[mommax3]

We did the envelope system from the time we were first married until a couple of years into residency -- I don't know why we quit!!! DH just got a fairly big raise and we are moving towards re-doing our budget -- I think I will suggest that we go back to doing envelopes. (He will probably faint -- I am the "spender" at our house )

Sally

[Amiens]

Nellie-

The health coverage at Univ of CO, isn't the norm. When we were there Matt said that there was a speaker who talked about health insurance and residency, and told the residents that Univ of CO has the best coverage in the nation for their residents, and that they do more knee surgeries than anywhere else (hehe b/c of the good skiing). I was somewhat naive, and thought that all programs provided health coverage at no cost to the resident. WRONG!

We moved to Univ of WA, and it costs about $90 a month (automatically deducted from Matt's paycheck) for the three of us that's for health and dental. It's actually one of the better plans offered, we had a choice from 5 plans-- ended up choosing the PPO. I have to admit it's wierd having to pay for health care, when at CU we didn't pay a dime for my OB care or anything else. Here when our son is born, we will have paid a total of $1000 in hospital, lab, circumcision and OB. Emma's well-checks are free, but sick visits we pay 10% after her deductible is met.

Crystal

Wow, Crystal. I have to remind myself about that when I complain about CU's insurance. I would actually be willing to pay a monthly premium, though, to be able to go out of their "network." Basically, the "network" is the faculty at the School of Medicine. So, when I need to see a doctor I get to see one of Eric's colleagues at the U. And since he went to med school here and rotated through all the departments and left such a good impression....everyone remembers him. ALL of the internists know him. (It was not good timing to have an appt w/ the chair of medicine after Eric quit IM for derm ). Technically, those with housestaff insurance aren't really supposed to see fellow residents but it happens anyway. I had to see a dermatologist a few days ago for a mole on my....behind ....and told the resident (with whom I had dinner in Miami) he was just going to miss out on the opportunity of seeing my backside and would he please send in the attending!

Thank goodness there is an ob/gyn practice (not with the school of med)that takes pity on those with the housestaff insurance and accepts the pittance that the housestaff insurance reimburses. Some (most?) of them went through the CU ob/gyn residency. They have a great practice and my SIL works there as a nurse-midwife and loves all the docs there.

The CU coverage still doesn't require an monthly premium but there are new co-pays and the drug costs have increased quite a bit. I think it will end up costing $200 in physician fees to deliver the baby and I'm not sure about a hospital copay (I don't think there is one). Certainly better than what you are paying but not nearly as good as the insurance I had with my former employer ($70 monthly copay for 3; $100 for labor and delivery; HUGE network of doctors and hospitals).

[Amiens]

About moonlighting--

When Matt was in medical school, he signed up with a company called PortaMedic. They are nationwide, and do in-home insurance policy physical exams. Matt earned enough to supplement our income a bit. He set his own hours, and did this during his fourth year of medical school. He did it a bit during internship.

Now that his schedule is more predictable, he is thinking about doing it again (there's a PortaMedic office a block from our apartment). If he signs up as a physician he gets paid more than if he did as a "phlebotomist."

I know Matt "moonlighting" in the ER here is out of the question for us-- he would have to take Step 3 (no biggie, needs to do it anyway), gain approval from the program chair (no problem, loves Matt) PLUS he would have to take out his own liability insurance. (HAHAHA! considering we live in a state that is considered a crisis state- I think not! I think the average here would be $20,000 a year). However, with him doing Portamedic he only has to gain approval from the dept chair, because he isn't treating patients.

Just a thought.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this (I sure you might be doing some of these things)-- I know for us, we looked at our budget, and began "trimming":
-Got a cheaper place to live
-starting to make more "homemade stuff,"
-using more of what we have (going by the saying- use it up, wear it out, fix it up, or do without)
-We don't have DSL, we use the free internet connection offered and have free email through the school and Yahoo!
-We plan our meals out a month in advance, so we stay on budget for groceries.
-The meals I do cook are fairly inexpensive.
-We rarely eat out, and we don't go to the movies.
-Matt takes the bus to work or rides his bike
-We reduced our cell phone greatly, so that it has the least number of minutes possible (we contemplated getting rid of it, but there have been times when we have been running errands and Matt has been paged and needed a phone)
-We don't have long distance- we have an AT&T phone card from Sam's club that is 2.9 cents a minute.

Just trying to help.

Another thing (I don't know much about home equity loans), but I do know that the rate is 5.95% right now. That seems really low to me.

Crystal

[Rapunzel]

There's always the option of getting help with groceries from your local church. Have you explored that possibility? Your husband might explore the moonlighting option Crystal suggested - this is the first I've heard of this option and it sounds quite interesting. Other thoughts:

-Get rid of a vehicle (if you have more than one). Immediately cuts your auto insurance down and it gets rid of half of your maintenance costs (not to mention a car payment if it isn't paid off).

-Is there any conceivable way to lower your mortgage payments? I have no clue in this area, but if anyone has any ideas please chime in!

-Call the city and see if there is any sort of payment plan you qualify for for your utilities - you might qualify for assistance in that area. There is also the option of having your electric bills averaged over the year to avoid in spikes in your utilities that would prevent any money going towards groceries for that month.

-Since you have kids to clothe I do suggest that, if you haven't done so already, you find a local Salvation Army and cheap resale shops in the area. In my experience the consignment stores in the "chic" neighborhoods generally have the highest quality merchandise.

-Since you have the home and, presumably, a yard - GROW your own garden during the warm months. It's hard work but you will save TONS of $$ if you plant beans, tomatoes, peppers, potatoes, carrots, strawberries, etc. Plus, it gives the kids some work to do during the summer months. At least if you have a fertile garden you know your kids won't be starving during the summer and fall....

That's all I have at the moment. I truly hope things work out quickly for you.

Jennifer

[SueC]

Here's a thought for groceries. A friend of mine joined a co-op system where she is required to pay only like $15 and she gets a couple sacks of groceries. She doesn't get to pick what she gets, but seems pretty satisfied with what she has gotten so far. She even gets a lot of name brand stuff which she doesn't normally indulge in. I think I may look into that myself...
I don't know where you find something like this, I'll ask my friend how she came across it.

I was thinking of something similar but I also don't know how you would go about finding one in your area. A friend who lives near me found out about a food co-op at a local neighborhood community center. Maybe check with local organizations? She was able to get $30-$40 worth of groceries for around $15-$20 (don't remember exact amounts). She didn't get her choice of groceries but got to choose from what was available -- which was a pretty good selection.

[PrincessFiona]

money, money, money

Lunatic...I hear your pain loud and clear. The last year of my husband's residency was tough, but his last two years of fellowship saw us sink to incredible lows. You are right to be concerned about credit card debt to just put food on the table. Our high-interest credit card debt is our biggest concern right now....we are paying dearly for those years.

In terms of buying things for the home, I am a big advocate of garage sales...many are even cheaper than good will. we are two yars out of training and I have been scouring the garage sales for baby stuff...I've bought tons of onesies as well as some cute gymboree outfits for almost nothing.

SunTrust does offer physician loans for residents and they are low interest. The man to talk to is Carl Peavy...the good news about these loans is that you pay interest only for the rest of training and your first year out of training. These can be a lifesaver in terms of consolidating credit card debt and giving you some emotional leeway.

You may also consider a work-at-home job? I've been working on an article about this for the newsletter..but I'm still waiting for some responses so it won't come out until Nellie tells me she's ready for it 8) .

I have friends that sold pampered chef, mary kay, avon...you name it. Some of them require an substantial amount of moeny for a buy-in, but many don't. In addition, you may consider what your own skills are based on your own background and see what it would take to become an independent contractor, become a medical transcriptionist/biller....I'm sure that we could all brainstorm with you about work-from-home ideas?

I'm sure I haven't helped...but I just want you to know you aren't alone. It is hard...and...it will get better....it really will.

kris

Regarding the grocery store budget, I have heard of a few good ideas. Kris had a good idea of paying for groceries in cash and only taking a certain amount of cash with you to the store so that you *can't* go over. My cousin-in-law used to take a calculator with her and add up all of her purchases to stay on track.

And good luck to you on the administrative/legal work from home. I think that is a great idea and I'll bet you can find some work that way. I'm guessing it would pay as well as or better than babysitting and maybe be less stressful, too.