Ophthalmology and Neurosurgery Resident

Hello Everyone- it is great to find a resourse is available like this. I hope this is OK- but I am a reverse poster- I am a third year medical student with a loving girlfriend-soon-to-be-fiance. She is fantastic; we've been dating for almost four years now. We have made it through medical school together with some hardships- she is so loving that she needs me close by a great deal. We get to see each other on weekends- every or every other. At times when we can't visit each other as often as we'd like or I leave her early to see my parents, she gets upset (not mad at me, but down in the dumps).

So, my real question comes- I am a month of way from scheduling my fourth year and therefore deciding what I'd like to do. I have always been set on ophthalmology, which seems to be a GREAT field for having a relationship. The average hours/week worked for a PGY-2 last year was 48. She knows that this is a great field for hours and we have talked about how great life (should be) with my work hours. HOWEVER, I have developed a strong newfound interest in neurosurgery; probably the most demanding residency available. She has already become a bit upset about this idea; her best friend is married to a neurosurgery intern with a new baby who calls my girlfriend crying every night.

Would switching to neurosurgery be an injustice to her? I feel as if it might be a selfish move. Does anyone have any insight with either of these fields and or any theories as to if it is selfish to pick a more demanding specialty? We will be in this together and I will be intentionally picking a life that leaves less time at home if I do neurosurgery. I think I could enjoy my job more, but at an injustice? Thank you so much!

[corn poffi]

Do what YOU want to do. If you end up choosing a field you're not as interested in for somebody that you're dating, you will probably be unhappy at work. And believe me, being unhappy at work makes you unhappy at home.

You have to do what YOU want and makes you happy no matter what. She should be able to support you in that. Maybe that sounds harsh but my philosophy with my husband is that I want him coming home happy (regardless of how much time we get to spend together). That being said I admit I have a personal bias as my DH just switched from NSG to Anesthesia. I helped him find out what he wanted to do but I never told him what decision to make, no matter how much it may have benefitted me personally. I'm happy he chose to switch because it's the right fit for him, the fact that it's a more family-friendly specialty is a plus but was in no way a deciding factor. Just my two cents.

[diggitydot]

A shit ton is going to change in the next year and a half. If your gal needs you close all the time, it doesn't matter which type of program you match into because she isn't going to like being alone. Residency is a giant time suck. Period. Some programs aren't as malignant as others, but they ALL include large chunks of time away from loved ones.

There are a lot of variables going on here. Get organized, figure out your options, then discuss/debate possible scenarios. You two need to hash this out together and your gal needs to get more info on both specialties and their training if she's going to have a say in the decision. Going off of a single anecdotal experience isn't going to cut it when the decision is this big.

[MarissaNicole]

Honestly if you think you can be happy in optho (or anything else)....do that. I know I sound negative, but ONLY go into neurosurgery if its the ONLY thing you want to do. I say this because people will often quit if they can see themselves doing anything else. It's a rough route that's only worth it if you know its the only thing you want to do.
I know it sounds terrible and I was really frustrated when everyone tried to talk my husband and I out of it when I really wanted to learn more before we made a decision. We thought long and hard and after lots of homework and trying to talk my husband out of it we realized that he would be miserable doing anything else.
It's not easy, and its not for everyone and while I WISH my husband was passionate about something else, I've accepted the path we are on.
Also if you think its the only thing that will make you happy, your girlfriend needs to be on board. Otherwise she may resent your decision. At the same time you may resent her if you pick a specialty other than what you really want to do.


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[Phoebe]

A shit ton is going to change in the next year and a half. If your gal needs you close all the time, it doesn't matter which type of program you match into because she isn't going to like being alone. Residency is a giant time suck. Period. Some programs aren't as malignant as others, but they ALL include large chunks of time away from loved ones.

There are a lot of variables going on here. Get organized, figure out your options, then discuss/debate possible scenarios. You two need to hash this out together and your gal needs to get more info on both specialties and their training if she's going to have a say in the decision. Going off of a single anecdotal experience isn't going to cut it when the decision is this big.

This.

[SuzySunshine]

I was going to type almost exactly what Marissa did.

My husband is Neurosurgery, we are completing year 8 of residency/fellowship, we have been together since undergrad. Everyone that he came into contact with in medical school, staff, residents, other students, EVERYONE, told him if you find anything you like as much as NSG choose that. I think he would still tell people that himself. Don't get me wrong, he LOVES what he does but he admits its the ONLY reason he does it. He can't seem himself doing ANYTHING else.

With that said you need to prepare your GF for the fact that the first year, and sometimes the first two, years of residency SUCK regardless of what specialty you choose.

Choose what you love! Good luck!

[MDPhDWife]

Honestly if you think you can be happy in optho (or anything else)....do that. I know I sound negative, but ONLY go into neurosurgery if its the ONLY thing you want to do. I say this because people will often quit if they can see themselves doing anything else. It's a rough route that's only worth it if you know its the only thing you want to do.
I know it sounds terrible and I was really frustrated when everyone tried to talk my husband and I out of it when I really wanted to learn more before we made a decision. We thought long and hard and after lots of homework and trying to talk my husband out of it we realized that he would be miserable doing anything else.
It's not easy, and its not for everyone and while I WISH my husband was passionate about something else, I've accepted the path we are on.
Also if you think its the only thing that will make you happy, your girlfriend needs to be on board. Otherwise she may resent your decision. At the same time you may resent her if you pick a specialty other than what you really want to do.


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This is almost exactly what I was going to post! I've often heard from spouses of NSG that it must be the ONLY specialty choice they would be happy with.

My husband matched into Ophtho last year but since he's just over halfway through his prelim year in internal medicine, I can't speak to the demands of Ophtho residency yet. I can only tell you prelim year has been a brutal bitch thus far and we're literally counting down the days until this year is over!

FWIW, I read your post to DH (who also considered NSG at one point) and he said tell the dude to stick with Ophtho! Of course he's biased though because he's passionate about Ophtho. I can see why someone interested in Ophtho would consider NSG and vice versa. There's clearly similarities.

My point is you really need to figure out for yourself what specialty your heart is in without factoring in your GF and then go from there. Would the extra years of training and longer hours be worth it to YOU? As a spouse, I know if my DH would have considered NSG more seriously, I would have done my darndest to talk him out of it, I won't even lie. But at the end of the day if I knew he was truly passionate about NSG, I would support him if for nothing else but to avoid having him resent me.

Good luck, hope this helps.

[GrayMatterWife]

As a preliminary matter: Optho?? Ok, you are not being hardcore. NSG do not understand anyone who is not hardcore. Don't tell any NSG that you are vascillating betw those two. They will not understand. They will say that they do, but they won't, really. Optho is (by comparison) a lifestyle profession. It pays great, has comparative little call, etc. (And, yes, I realize that this sounds vaguely psychotic--I am not endorsing it. I am just being honest about how NSG, in the privacy of the company of other NSGs, think about other specialities).

Second: FWIW, you could read this (third posting down). Words of insight re: being a NSG spouse. http://uncleharvey.com/index.php/for...hread/340/P15/

Third: You are looking at this completely the wrong way. NSG is not Derm. It's not RADs. It's not Optho. Not that those specialists aren't passionate--I'm certainly not saying that. But my experience is that NSG is truly different. These guys (and the vast majority are guys) are defined by their love of the brain. It is a very basic part of who they are. They would rather be in the OR than anywhere else on earth (note: I did not say "the hospital"--I said the OR). My observation has been that the NSG spouse MUST be on board for this. She carries the weight of everything in the home (and during residency, often also works to support the family). There is a big difference between wanting to be able to SAY that you are married to a NSG and wanting to be married to a NSG.

First, your GF should stop listening to her whining, crying friend who's married to the NSG intern. If she's bawling nightly because she's alone with the baby or whatever, she's not hardcore (and the wife has to be just as hardcore as he is). They'll never make it, or he'll quit NSG, or she'll spend the whole rest of her life miserable. He will ALWAYS busy. He'll have a life after residency, definitely. But he'll never be a Derm.

You guys need to decide as a couple: is she in board for this? Is she prepared to make the sacrifices? Are you prepared to tell her every moment that you are conscious postcall how awesome she is and how you could never do it without her?

Do NOT do NSG if you can see yourself happy doing anything else.

That being said, I have been married to my NSG husband for almost 17 years. I have been with him all the way through med school and his PhD work. Through six years of residency and one year of fellowship. I am a lawyer and we have three children and he is, genuinely, everything I could hope for as a husband and father. It is not easy, but I have never regretted his choice of NSG. Not once, not ever.

But, honestly: I am not a very emotionally needy person in terms of my partner. I don't need his constant presence. You and your GF should be honest and realistic about both your needs. if you are (some would say, normal and healthy!) the kind of people that need regular, significant daily contact and want to be 50-50 partners in everything, NSG is not for you, especially the residency.

Good luck! I would be glad to talk with you any any specifics re: NSG as a couple, if you PM me. And if you can take my colorful bluntness.

[GrayMatterWife]

Summary: (sorry--it's late--my post was too long): don't look at it as you inflicting an "injustice" on her. It's demeaning to her, insulting to wives of NSGs (who don't view themselves as "victims" of their husbands' choices), and unhelpful. This is not about imposing your choice on her. This is about whether you both, as a couple, want to do this--and it will be joint effort. If she's on board, and has made an informed decision, then great. She owns it and you're not inflicting an injustice. If she's not on board and you want to be a couple, then do something else.

[Michele]

My DH considered neurology...not neurosurgery before deciding on ophthalmology. But he always had lifestyle in mind. I think he would've enjoyed NSG if not for the demanding hours of the specialty.

[MrsK]

I don't know anything about optho v neuro but I do think you got good advice here. FWIW, I think you and your GF need to discuss her need to have you near. Any residency is going to be demanding. My husband is a psych resident. He switched from trauma surgery because he wanted a family-friendly career. Psych is about as lifestyle focused as you can get and he's still away a lot. We married just before residency started and we have 2 babies now. I e-mail him updates and photos oif the babies while he is working weekends. Even if there is not call, there is moonlighting, journal club presentations, papers to publish, stuff to read, exams to study for, and so on. Your GF may find herself far from home and making new friends in a new city while you are at work. She needs to prepare for that.

I didn't really have any say in my husband's choice of specialty, and we were married and had two kids in medical school. He absolutely LOVES what he does (Orthopedics, doing a fellowship in hip preservation), and that makes all the difference. You have to be passionate about your choice, or the long hours (and years!) will be terrible for both of you. I think you need to make your own choice, and let her know there are so many of us out there, great resources, support organizations, etc... She should grow right along with you. If you hold each other back, instead of pushing each other forward, it won't work.

[houseelf]

Best of luck! You have already been offered this piece of advice:

Honestly if you think you can be happy in optho (or anything else)....do that. I know I sound negative, but ONLY go into neurosurgery if its the ONLY thing you want to do

, a nugget which my husband with 9 years of surgery training under his belt frequently and regularly advises would-be surgeons. FWIW, DH effing loves his specialty too. Loves it. Kind of sick about it, really.

I have to add what do you envision YOUR life looking like? If you have great passion for n/s to the detriment of all other things, go for it. If you have other hobbies, passions, interests, they will all fall aside. If you envision being home frequently with wife and/or kids, n/s isn't the best option. To put it in perspective, DH is a former college hockey player who did residency in Minnesota. He found time to skate twice during that time frame and skating is like breathing up there. Its hard to envision the kids/wife thing because it is all speculative. Obviously, you will not be the parent at the Winter pageant or able to tuck them in consistently. I get that this is all abstract now, but there it is. This isn't said in judgment, different families work in different ways. It is said to make sure that you think about all the ramifications.

Again, best of luck!

[MarissaNicole]

I used to joke, but it's really the truth. "I AM my husbands hobby." There simply isn't time for other hobbies! (Although that's generally applicable to all specialties in residency).