ranking advice....

[corn poffi]

I don't live in Chicago, but have a bunch of friends there and visit there often. Don't be afraid of the crime rate. Like any big city, there are areas to avoid, but it's really not as bad as its portrayed. As for cost-of-living, it would be tight, but not unmanageable. When my BFF first moved down there 8 years ago or so, she supported herself, her deadbeat boyfriend, and her ridiculously expensive dog on a similar salary. Add in a major car accident requiring her to get a new car, and she was still fine. She moved out of the city after a year or two though, just because she wanted to get more for her money.

[SoonerTexan]

He will hate the heat...no getting around that.

While Dallas traffic sucks, I can tell you Chicago isn't going to be any better, maybe worse in the winter. I cant speak for Columbus.

If you choose to live near UTSW in the city proper, the commute won't be a problem. DH did that for 2 years during rush hour time. Now we're in a suburb and since he is going mostly at off times it is still only 15-20 min. If you are smart in where you choose to live you can make it work.

As for the culture...I could have written what you wrote 2 years ago. In fact, I did. I can't speak for the fellowship programs (but Michele and vgirl can) but the med school has been awesome, way better than what we anticipated. I went to his interview with him and we were really worried about what we perceived the culture to be like...unhappy students, competitiveness, inflexibility. It has really been the opposite and we are so happy here. The med school is remarkably family friendly. We will absolutely be trying to do residency and fellowship (if applicable) at UTSW if we can swing it. Now, they are known for working you hard, I cannot deny that, but I was expecting a much more malignant culture ad we have not found that to be the case. My FIL is in town today and used to be faculty at UTSW, I'll have to ask him what the culture was like at the fellowship level.

[Auspicious]

Re: Chicago

We lived in Evanston on a little less than that. We were coming from NYC, though, so our 800 sqft apt seemed palatial and cheap in comparison and we were used to the sacrifices and benefits of urban living. We had one car with no car payments at first and had to trade that in for a new-to-us car after a couple of years, and our med school loan was in deferment, so your mileage may vary. We were building savings when it was just the two of us, pretty neutral with one baby and the car payment, and chipping away at savings with two babies. We definitely could have skated through three years.

And definitely look at crime rates by neighborhood and not city-wide. Crime is not evenly spread over any city, and some people have higher odds than others of being a victim. I think if you take normal precautions you'd be fine in that respect.

It would be a big change from Alabama, obviously--definitely expect to downsize your living space and possibly number of cars. You'd be living like students and not like young professionals, but it's just temporary.

For me though, I feel that we were incredibly lucky to be sent to Evanston for residency.

[labmouse]

auspicious,

evanston is pretty near to children's memorial and i am glad to hear that you enjoyed living in chicago. Right now, we are living in 1000sqft for around $800 per month and i looked around apartments near children's memorial, they range from about $1500 for 550sqft. I do not mind the lack of space and i am aware that there will definitely be a huge change in terms of living expenses. what are your thoughts about living near lincoln park?

[MarissaNicole]

ooo.. ladies.. thanks for your advice...

chicago people... please tell me your experience... is 58k sufficient to support the 2 of us with leftover savings and the possibility of a little one in 2 years? Is crime rate as bad as it sounds? Last time i read, crime was 270 + murders per year... eeekkk... plus break-ins and raping, i don't know whether is it worth risking our lives possibly getting shot to live in chicago??

Let me preface this with that I have never lived in the city. I was born and raised in the burbs but know people who live(d) in the city. Honestly I think you could skim by on $58k in the city and here is why. U of Chicago residents start at $38k and somehow they live on that - although I bet they have to take out loans. Some areas are going to be more expensive than others. My sister in law lived in a 1 bedroom near Wrigley for about $1,000 a month. I also have a friend who before her new job lived in the city on a salary of roughly $40k.

Personally I think the violence is the worst it's been in a long time... but I also think it is concentrated in certain areas and can mostly be attributed to gang violence.

You can also look into living in the burbs, Oak Park for example is a quick eL ride into the city.

I would look first to the reputation of the program, and if all other things are equal, then look to other factors that are important to YOU and your significant other. Whether that be cost of living, weather, ease of travel to other places, proximity to family, etc. I don't think you'd be risking your life to live in Chicago, but you may not feel as safe as you would living somewhere else, and I think you could definitely live on $58,000, but your not going to have as much living space and extra spending money as you would if you lived somewhere else.

[oceanchild]

I only "lived" in Chicago for a few weeks one summer, but I visit all the time. I think it has some of the general dangers of big city life, but I don't find it particularly dangerous. I've never felt unsafe there, which is more than I can say for a lot of cities. And I agree with others that crime is going to be fairly concentrated in some areas. My friends live in the Lakeview area now, and it's really nice. I'm guessing it isn't cheap, but I don't know how much they pay. They rent the ground floor of a three-level duplex type place. I wouldn't hesitate to live in that area at all. I agree about Evanston, too.

I think in Chicago when working normal hours you can easily rely on public transportation, and when working weird hours the traffic is probably manageable.

[Auspicious]

auspicious,

evanston is pretty near to children's memorial and i am glad to hear that you enjoyed living in chicago. Right now, we are living in 1000sqft for around $800 per month and i looked around apartments near children's memorial, they range from about $1500 for 550sqft. I do not mind the lack of space and i am aware that there will definitely be a huge change in terms of living expenses. what are your thoughts about living near lincoln park?

I'm afraid I don't know the neighborhoods of Chicago proper very well at all. I grew up in the outer burbs, but Evanston was as close as I ever lived to the city. Ouch on $1500 rent. We paid $1050, I'm pretty sure, in Evanston, but that was starting in 2006.

My husband did one rotation at Children's--I'll have to ask him if he remembers how if he took the train or car and how long it took him.

[diggitydot]

As someone STILL sitting in Chicago traffic at this very moment (and have been for the last 4 fucking hours) I can attest to its shittiness.

[GreyhoundsRUs]

I'll write a bunch later tonight.

[GreyhoundsRUs]

Ok - I hope you're ready

A little background: DH and I have lived in Chicago (both separately and together) for over a decade. We did undergrad and medical school in Chicago and have lived all over the city proper. I've worked both in the city and in the suburbs (reverse commute). We didn't have kids when we lived in Chicago, but we had two large dogs.

DH and I specifically did not want to stay in Chicago for residency - it basically ranked above not matching. That being said, we are open to going ANYWHERE for fellowship, and we will probably have two kids at that point. Fellowship seriously is all about the people/exposure (at least for DH), so we will rank programs based on the best fit for him and his career. I mean, it's one year, right?

Here's my two cents: Children's Memorial has moved and is now at Northwestern's medical campus in the heart of the Gold Coast. There really is no easy L (train) line to get there. The Red would be your best bet, but you would still have to walk east about a mile once you got off the train. If you lived in Evanston, things get much more complex because then Purple Line only runs during rush hour, and is about half a mile further west from CMH. The hospital offers pretty good parking rates for med students - I am not sure if the same is true for fellows, but I would drive.

As far as crime...meh. Yes, there have been weird stuff happen even in popular commercial areas, but I have never felt unsafe in Chicago. I can go into more specifics about where to go, etc if you decide to move there, but you won't get killed living there, you know?

As far as COL, it's f-ing expensive. To live someplace safer and with parking (as a fellow, I wouldn't want to have to shovel the car out in the morning if you have to be at work way early), you are going to pay a lot. The prices that you are seeing are reasonable. I'm not going to say that you can make it work, because I know nothing about your spending habits/lifestyle, but people do make it work. If you are not going to be working for that year, or if you are and have to pay for daycare, those are other things to factor in. Goods cost a lot more in Chicago, plus there is over 10% tax in Cook County.

Traffic: blows big time . When I did the reverse commute, it was fine, but I was also driving 50 miles each way to work. When I worked I the city, I was 3 miles from work, and it took me roughly 45 minutes to drive at 6am. This was all city driving. It would sometimes take DH close to two hours to get from home to a hospital for clinicals. Public transit is good, but only really convenient for north-south travel and travel within the Loop (or to-from the Loop). Moving east-west is usually busses - which means you're stuck I the same traffic, just not driving.

All things considered, a lot of people LOVE living in Chicago, obviously. I would make a decision based on the best program/fit, but that's just me. Let me know if you have any other questions...

[oceanchild]

DH and I specifically did not want to stay in Chicago for residency - it basically ranked above not matching. That being said, we are open to going ANYWHERE for fellowship, and we will probably have two kids at that point. Fellowship seriously is all about the people/exposure (at least for DH), so we will rank programs based on the best fit for him and his career. I mean, it's one year, right?

Peds fellowships are almost all 3 years, fwiw.

Labmouse, you might pm Cassy if you want more Columbus info. I'm not sure how much she's around lately, but she'd be the expert.

[ladymoreta]

I didn't technically live there, but I worked in Columbus for a few months during the week. It was a nice city, and if it weren't so cold in the winter and far away from my family, I'd probably be really happy living there.

[GreyhoundsRUs]

Peds fellowships are almost all 3 years, fwiw.

Did not realize that I think that would be my limit of living in a big city like Chicago - really after 2 years it would probably be draining. The question, labmouse, is are you a city mouse or a country mouse

[labmouse]

greyhound:

Neo/perinatal fellowships are 3 yrs and DH is actively looking for a program that allows him to add an extra year (if possible), so we are looking into 3-4 years. That's why i am particularly concerned about the 'quality' of life we will be having. I am on spousal visa, hence no SSN and although i am legally allowed to work, most employers are pretty hesitant to hire somebody without SSN. As for the nasty traffic, boo hoo... we will be planning to live within walking distance to the children's hospital (if we match there that is) and from my research, rental rates are really really expensive around that area. We might be planning to start a family in the next 2 years or so, but maybe if we matched to chicago, the living cost may delay our plans (i am 25 yo now).

As for prestigiousness, Northwestern definitely has its name. Hmm.. anyway.. thanks for your insight on traffic in chicago. During our interview travels, we did meet with a lady who did her residency in chicago and she vowed never to go back there due to the crazy traffic. She had a baby in chicago during residency and she told us she was so glad to get out of the expensive place, especially now that she has a young one. arrghhh.. man.... it is soo hard.

as for your question, both DH and i are country mouse =) we love peaceful, quiet towns with minimal traffic and noise. We do not really care about nightlife, partying or city life. But, fellowship being the last formal training for his career, it is also important to graduate from somewhere that can offer more. So, we might have to sacrifice a lot a lot if we matched to chicago. Currently, it is ranked pretty high on our list, based on people/exposure factor, but everyday i am crossing my fingers to get our top pick...

[Auspicious]

Here's my two cents: Children's Memorial has moved and is now at Northwestern's medical campus in the heart of the Gold Coast.

Sorry--I didn't know this! Forget what I said about Evanston. Carry on.