Terms

[SoonerTexan]

I don't know that the terms necessarily don't allow for it, IMHO it seems like it could create a lot I unnecessary drama depending on how it were handled if EVERYTHING were out there. Though I'm technically a mod now and see more than I did before, I say this as someone who hasn't been privy to lots in the past and real don't feel like I need to be in on all the details about every issue I've missed. But I may not be understanding what You are saying. I guess I'm just saying some people may not want their issues out there publicly and would prefer it be handled by a mod.

[weeniegeniewife]

I agree, ST. All members should not be privy to absolutely everything that goes on behind the scenes. Admins and mods have their roles for specific reasons.

[scrub-jay]

The admins will work in reworking the faq and terms.

SS - I think you illuminated a good question in the TOS and from the comment above, the admins have agreed to revamp them shortly. Thank you for the question/suggestion, I'm sure this will be useful to both new and old users alike.

[SuzySunshine]

I guess what I'm getting at is to what is to stop someone from hanging someone out to dry.

Say member A sends an admin a PM saying member B was mean to them - well the admin can't see the PM's so how does the admin know what was really said? What is to keep someone who gets pissed off about something from ruining someone because they don't like the way they handled someone or did something - and yes that totally sounds like high school but that is how this feels.

That is what I was getting at with the PM's - everyone claims that so much goes on behind the scenes but if no one but the sender/receiver can see the PMs where is the proof, where is the accountability?

And I am a mod of a forum and I don't feel like I see anything more then I did as a regular member.

[scrub-jay]

I guess what I'm getting at is to what is to stop someone from hanging someone out to dry.

Say member A sends an admin a PM saying member B was mean to them - well the admin can't see the PM's so how does the admin know what was really said? What is to keep someone who gets pissed off about something from ruining someone because they don't like the way they handled someone or did something - and yes that totally sounds like high school but that is how this feels.

That is what I was getting at with the PM's - everyone claims that so much goes on behind the scenes but if no one but the sender/receiver can see the PMs where is the proof, where is the accountability?

And I am a mod of a forum and I don't feel like I see anything more then I did as a regular member.

As for the he-said, she-said issue, which is valid in most conflicts, how would you suggest that the admins (or mods) proceed? I'm sure they are open to new problem-solving suggestions.

[HouseofWool]

And to clarify what "behind the scenes" can mean.

The moderators and admins communicate clearly and frequently when we see an issue cropping up that may change the very fabric of iMSN. It could be a thread or a single post in a thread that sets off our "spidey senses". We do this so that there is a group consensus about the emerging issue and what the group response will be. We talk about it so that no one makes a rash decision in the heat of the moment.

However, what also happens is that the mods, admins and Kris receive PM's talking about a problem which we then need to diffuse. If the same issue keeps coming up repeatedly, some sort of action needs to be taken.

Just as fellow employees aren't privy to what happens when a colleague meets with HR, the same can be said for any approaching of members of this board regarding inappropriate behavior. That is done via PM to preserve the dignity of all parties involved. The final chapter did play out in public, for good or bad.

[SuzySunshine]

As for the he-said, she-said issue, which is valid in most conflicts, how would you suggest that the admins (or mods) proceed? I'm sure they are open to new problem-solving suggestions.

I guess I would say we are adults, if someone PM's you something that you find offensive, deal with it like adults. Don't go running to an admin or a mod, maybe this really is high school.

As for your comment Kris, I am listed as a moderator but have no access to anything "behind the scenes" so I'm sure there is a forum where you can all talk about my and the issues I am stirring right now - that is fine. That isn't what a real community is built on.

[spotty_dog]

I believe in light-handed moderation, self-policing, and putting the needs of the established users ahead of the needs of the newbs. I love new blood, but we have a community "flavor" because of the regulars -- we wouldn't be iMSN without the oldtimers, and we need to listen to them.

An interesting observation from an experienced community admin and moderator: "folks don’t like to see moderation go from light to heavy, almost no matter the reason".

[MrsK]

I wish some of the people who have pm'd me would chime in. It seems that people are afraid to say "this person was awful to me in the past ... thank you" out loud for fear of the repercussions right now. I hope at some point they will let their voices be heard.

I'd chime in here. Without naming names, certain people have been openly hostile and unsupportive toward me and toward other members in forums. While I have not received hostile PMs, I have received numerous unsolicited PMs from people complaining that they also have felt bullied by certain individuals in the forums and but for the ability to ignore/block undesirable posts, those people would have left iMSN. If I'm a lowly moderator of a relatively uncontroversial forum (Careers) and I am fielding complaints, I suspect that Kris is receving many more complaints than I am and I'd expect her to be taking more aggressive action than telling those offended that they can ignore the offender. I am glad that someone is policing these interpersonal conflicts so that we can all feel safe here.

I guess what I'm getting at is to what is to stop someone from hanging someone out to dry.

Say member A sends an admin a PM saying member B was mean to them - well the admin can't see the PM's so how does the admin know what was really said? What is to keep someone who gets pissed off about something from ruining someone because they don't like the way they handled someone or did something - and yes that totally sounds like high school but that is how this feels.

That is what I was getting at with the PM's - everyone claims that so much goes on behind the scenes but if no one but the sender/receiver can see the PMs where is the proof, where is the accountability?

I believe that PMs can be forwarded. If someone is complaining that a PM is hostile/abusive or otherwise violates the TOS, then I suppose the person registering the complaint can forward the PM along with the complaint? Just a suggestion...

[PrincessFiona]

Uncalled for Cheri. I just asked in there if you had access to that forum since you aren't participating. No one is talking about you. I did ask you questions with no response. Way to be passive aggressive.

Since you are putting it out there, in the past you have pm'd me about the "negativity" of some members etc. I also remember periods of you leaving and returning.

No one is being talked about. We are trying to problem-solve.

I'm going to the pool. I suggest everyone here also get offline and go enjoy some sun.

[diggitydot]

Exactly one active member has ever been banned from iMSN. I don't think anyone has to be wary of the ban hammer or fear being "setup". No one needs to make anyone else look like an asshole. Those who are prone to doing it (myself included) are fully capable of accomplishing it all on their own.

[SuzySunshine]

There is no sun here, only rain today, which we need and are thankful for.

Access is one of those things that always causes issues, I've been a mod for a very long time and never had access, didn't even know it existed - probably thought it was just for admins.

Maybe I am stirring the pot but really I just wanted a public discussion about how we should all expect things to happen and be handled around here because obviously what happened last week could happen to any of us and obviously caught several of us off guard.

As for me and my breaks, I'll admit I had one freak out once about what I was posting here being more easily searchable then I thought and possibly affecting my DH's job hunt. I have now realized that is naive, no one cares what we do here and if they do they need a life. I did ask for my account to be deleted once and you wouldn't let me Kris, why was that? So I took a break. Maybe its time for another and no that isn't a plea to hear everyone to ask me to stay. As I think Kris said during this whole mess maybe we all outgrow the support side of the site at some point.

[PrincessFiona]

Why? Because I have the experience to know that these freak-outs happen and that it's hard to un-delete....you aren't the first to walk away and come back and you won't be the last. We go through tough times around here and people struggle. Walking away is part of that. Compassion dictates letting people have a little room befote they decide. I'm glad you didn't delete. I'm sorry you feel like taking a break over this.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

In the past, I did feel attacked and not supported by some members. Maybe I'm whiny or "the new generation" but I felt like I was posting things that other people had posted about previously (looking back thru threads in forums that I can see) but now are labeling as "whiny" because they have a new perspective/are on the other side of training/changed their minds, whatever. That opinion is totally valid but then just ignore me.

I have in mind a specific incident (I won't identify the OP though she may identify herself when she reads this) where a member posted in the rant thread "my kids are driving me crazy" or something to that effect. Several members chimed in with suggestions or supportive statements and MIT posted basically "get over yourself, oops maybe that's not helpful!" I feel like if you don't have something nice or constructive to add, you can just IGNORE the threads but instead she choose to attack someone who was having a bad day.

I, personally, have appreciated in the past that the advice I receive isn't all "there, there" but is sometimes the proverbial "suck it up cupcake". I do think, however, that there is a way to SPEAK THE TRUTH IN LOVE without attacking people.

Maybe it's not kosher that I just said this in an open forum (mods, feel free to delete) but I just wanted to say that I think there's a big difference between loving, sometimes tough honesty and outright aggression and that the admins/mods are right to encourage the former and heavily discourage the later.

[SuzySunshine]

I have in mind a specific incident (I won't identify the OP though she may identify herself when she reads this) where a member posted in the rant thread "my kids are driving me crazy" or something to that effect. Several members chimed in with suggestions or supportive statements and MIT posted basically "get over yourself, oops maybe that's not helpful!" I feel like if you don't have something nice or constructive to add, you can just IGNORE the threads but instead she choose to attack someone who was having a bad day.

But haven't we all called out a member like that before? Tough love sometimes is the best medicine. If someone makes a comment in a thread you started that you don't like or wouldn't consider then you ignore it. You don't go running to an admin or a mod and whine, we're adults, not children.

But like I said before, this is not why I started this thread - I didn't start it to ferret out information about the banned member and why, I started it because if it can happen to her it can happen to anyone and I feel everyone needs to know the rules.