Location advice-attending positions

[Sheherezade]

I know you get these kinds of questions all the time, so I promise to post a review of JHU and MGH in the residency section!!!!

We are currently considering moving to the Cleveland area (Case Western-University Hospital) or the Providence RI area (Brown) as well as a number of less certain places for my husband's final (hopefully) job move. Does anyone out there know anything about these two locations? I would appreciate any input (good or bad) about the town, schools, hospitals, people, etc.

The pressure of deciding where to live is different when you actually get to make a choice---I think we did better when it was a match! Then we didn't have to decide....

Angie

[fluffhead]

A friend just became an attending at Brown. He loves it and loves Providence. But he has no little kids.
I'm really curious to see your take on Hopkins. I've heard nasty things.

I think that there can be a lot of variation depending on the program.
With that....Brown was very high on our list for derm residencies for a couple of reasons: the faculty and the program, Providence, having family in the area, work possibilities for me, proximity to Boston and NYC... There are others that I am drawing a complete blank on right now.
We have a 3 year old daughter so schools were a consideration. I think that there are some areas that have good public schools. My cousin who lived there was in a private school kindergarten-12 but I think the schools have improved over the years (not so great when she started out). There are some great areas to live in, and as near as we could tell and were told, cost of housing was reasonable-ish, especially for a city in the east.
I'll let you know if I think of anything else. I just really like Providence!

[SuzySunshine]

I too would like to hear anything anyone has to say about Cleveland, more the area than the programs - my husband just got back from his residency interview there and LOVED it. Because I'm not that familiar with the area I'd love to know more about it too!

Thanks

[Phoebe]

Angie- Hi and Welcome! I can give you some feedback on Case Western and UH. We moved to Indiana from Cleveland where we lived for three years while my DH did a fellowship at Rainbow Babies and Children's Hosp which is part of the UH group. We are friends with a 4th year OB resident who is set up to do gyn oncology fellowship in Cleveland next year.

There are also lots of research opportunities in the medical field through Case is that is something you are interested in doing. I worked at Case Western until we started a family. Our first daughter was born at UH.

If you are interested I could field some questions for you.

Jennifer

[Sheherezade]

Well this is good so far---everybody likes Providence and Cleveland We are visiting Cleveland this weekend--the whole family-- for a second interview. They got us a hotel, airfare, rental car and a real estate agent to show us the city. Yikes! We aren't used to being treated this way....People tell me Shaker Heights is a great area to live. Jennifer, do you have opinions about areas of the city for raising a family? Then I could take a look while we are there....

I'm not sure we did this interview thing right---we wanted to take the kids out so they could see a place we might live (being the ultimate democratic family'' we did that already with Providence) ---we were going to schedule the trip, but they did everything for us so now I feel guilty for not finding someone to watch them for a few days. (That would have been hard anyway...) Also I'm not crazy about this "wife" roll I'm in--my husband off at the hospital talking contracts while I tool around with the real estate people talking schools. Not that I don't care (dare I say more than hubby), but isn't it all a bit...1958? I'm so uncomfortable with people doing stuff for us---I feel obligated or something. Does this mean we are doomed to go some place unhelpful just so I can be comfortable??

Angie

[DCJenn]

I have family in Cleveland (and a cousin who is a sophomore in HS if you need a babysitter!!) They love it. My aunt just bought a little house and she lives in a funky, artsy part of town. My eldest cousin leaves for college this year and the younger one only has two more years, so my aunt is getting ready to enjoy the empty nest.

They love the fact that it retains a smaller town character with big city amenities. They live in an area called Mentor. The schools were really important to her (and my jackass former uncle but that's a whole 'nother saga) when they moved there from Connecticut. My uncle worked for GE. Both of my cousins are athletes on the track team and my eldest cousin has been able to take advantage of the various music opportunities- the band, the jazz club etc, as he plays trumpet and electric guitar. My younger cousin is a typical teen- but smart. So... for whatever that's worth.

Keep us posted.

Jenn

[Phoebe]

Angie- When are you leaving for the interview?

Are they putting you up in the Glidden House for the interview stay? We stayed there during my husband's fellowship interview. It is a hotel near the hospital on Case Western's campus. The hospital itself is about 30 minutes northeast of the airport and about a 15 minute drive from downtown Cleveland. Case Western and UH are in the heart of University Circle a great little area where several museums, a concert hall and a park are located. The buildings have beautiful architecture and there are several cultural activities held during the year.

Cleveland itself is essentially divided into two sides with downtown as the central line. University Hospitals is located on the east side. The west and the east sides of the city are opposite and almost rivals of one another. One of the first questions people ask when they meet you is if you live on the east or west side. Characteristically speaking, the west side is essentially newer with more retail and newer housing developments. There are western suburbs closer to downtown which have great charm and nice older homes. A couple popular ones are Westlake and Lakewood. The east side near the hospital is more culturally diverse and more middle suburban with houses built in the 1900s on.

Where you end up depends on the type of community you are looking for. I can't say much about the west side living because we lived on the eastern side of Cleveland. One factor will depend on how far away you want to be from the hospital and the type of neighborhood you are looking for. We lived approximately 4 miles from UH in Cleveland Heights. Cleveland Heights is a culturally diverse community with most housing built in the early to mid 1900s. The community is affordable, we lived there on a PGY salary and has access to a lot of shopping. Depending on where you live, some areas don't have the best neighborhoods. The school system is also in flux right now. I can say that we would have moved out of the community if we would have stayed.

Your realtor will obviously know the best areas to show you. Other areas on the east side to consider are Shaker Heights (an older community with beautiful homes, tree lined neighorhoods and a very good school system). Many physicians live in Shaker Heights, Pepper Pike, Moreland Hills and possibly Gates Mills. Orange County and Pepper Pike schools are excellent. All these communities are within a 20 minute drive of the hospital. Housing is more expensive in the above areas and lots are small. Building a house in these areas is out of the question because all the space is taken up. Highway access isn't the greatest in these areas.

As you go farther east, it gets more rural and people are able to purchase land and build a home. A really neat community about 40 minutes from the hospital is Cuyahoga Falls which has a quaint downtown area, nice homes and a good school district. Mentor, the town Jenn mentioned, is farther east about 30 minutes from UH. There is a lot of retail there along with older and newer homes.

Cleveland has a lot of good qualities. There is a great metropark system for recreation and outdoor activities. Lake Erie borders the town with a nice lakefront area along the edge of downtown where you will find the Cleveland Brown's stadium and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The lake it not very clean, but does have several beaches. We never went to the beach because they didn't seem very clean after growing up close to Lake Michigan. Downtown has many nice restaurants and activities from professional sports, theatre and music if you are interested.

I can answer more specific questions if you have them. UH will probably set you up with Realty One or Smythe Cramer. We bought our house using Smythe Cramer and had a good experience. However, when we went to sell our house using the same company we encountered numerous problems. Hopefully, you will have a good experience! Good luck on your visit. I hope you like it.

Let me know if I can provide any more information.

Jennifer

[Sheherezade]

Thank you so much for all the info! We are staying in Westlake--my husband got to stay at the Glidden House on his first interview. He would be doing one day a week in Westlake at a satellite clinic/hospital so they want him to check out the west side. I am leaving tomorrow and will be back on Sunday. I'm sure I'll have more questions then after I've actually seen the place. Too bad Lake Erie is not clean....I grew up on the beach in Florida. I think I'll miss the waterfront if we move there....
Thanks again. One more question--if you had stayed, where would you have moved near Cleveland (and why, if you don't mind adding that )?

Angie

[peggyfromwastate]

A few days ago I read an article in the Washington Post all about Cleaveland! Just a funny coincidence. The gist of the article was that Cleaveland has a hard time holding on to their talented young college grads who tend to leave for more technicologically advanced centers, such as Seattle... But it does talk about the efforts they are making in Cleaveland to retain more of their college grads and become more business-friendly... Anyway, I don't know anything about it except, Cleaveland Rocks, right? From the Drew Carey show??

[Phoebe]

Cleveland has been dealing with the issue of not being able to keep college grads for a while. The mayor was trying to remedy that situation. The city recently has closed a couple of long time companies, including a steel company that put many, many people out of work. They are also trying to renevate the downtown and its outskirts to bring life back to the town.

Angie, I mentioned we would move out of our community because we weren't happy in our neighborhood due to bad neighbors and being close to a busy street. We didn't live in the best area during fellowship. Also the school district where we lived is having a lot of problems.

Part of my husband's job responsibilities would have been to cover a hospital farther east in addition to being at the main UH facility. If we stayed, we had planned on living in Shaker Heights or somewhere in between the two hospitals where my husband would have worked. In the end, we decided my husband would take a job in Indiana because he really was looking for a more clinical position as opposed to academic as it was at UH.

I hope your visit to Cleveland went well!

Jennifer