Market Saturation - how to find out?

[Sheherezade]

The job search is a funny thing - I think if you are truly interested in going home finding out what areas they need now isn't a bad idea. However just keep in mind, that as a lot have said, the industry is changing rapidly.

This. Obviously, you have to be happy with what you choose to do. Believe me, having a husband unhappy with his work is not something you want for 25 years or more! BUT, beyond that, it is smart to be strategic and the earlier you think that way, the better. The only thing I can offer from direct personal experience is that if you want to be in an academic field in a highly specialized field, you will have to go where the best jobs are - and that may be far away from your first choice of location. Of course, you will also be expected to move around after you get that first job, so you get a few chances to land a dream job in a dream location. It just may take you a few moves after training is complete.

Oh, and private practice family medicine seems to have the most hard luck stories.

It's smart to educate yourself. Be flexible, though. Don't set yourself up for heartbreak if your plan doesn't work out. Medicine is rapidly changing these days.

[Pollyanna]

Exactly what Angie said!!

[Thirteen]

Yes about PP FM - if you go FM, find the best large systems in your desired area, interview, and find out what your clinic or hospitalist options are.

Make sure you get out of a non-compete clause, and that the guaranteed salary is fair.


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[WolfpackWife]

Yes, my main driving goal behind most of what I ask here is exactly that - to educate myself. I keep myself involved in this process and DH does as well. I am trying to do my part by getting educated and finding resources. We're both acutely aware of the fact that the industry is changing rapidly, and what's what today may not be applicable by the time we match. But we're in it together and we're thinking about it every day. We have goals for this process and we know what we'd ideally like for our "real life" in the future - so maybe it's foolish or pointless to seek the info now, but I figure why the heck not just figure out what I can now, you know?

DH has been thinking about specialties since the moment he set foot into the first day of MS-1. I have absolutely NO desire to force my husband into something he doesn't like or want to do just so I can live exactly where I want to live. At all. Even I am not that pathetic and selfish! I do want to know what to be prepared for, if there are better options to look into, etc. At this point we have many conversations about what he's really and truly interested in (IM, cards or pulm/cc) and what he's still entertaining (EM, family medicine) and what he knows he very, very likely won't want to do (mostly anything surgical, psych). We both know this very well could change during third year. He may see a lifestyle in IM/cardiology that he wants no part of. He may be drawn to something unexpected. But with what we know now, what our hopes and goals are, I just want to try to do what I can to know what's what.

I am not nearly as short-sighted and in denial as I may seem. I just want to educate myself and try to prepare as best I can, no matter how fluid that preparation needs to be throughout the years.

I appreciate all of the tips and advice!

[Cinderella]

I'm glad you ask the questions you do because I get an education too. It's always fun reading the threads and everyone's advice.

[diggitydot]

. Oh, and private practice family medicine seems to have the most hard luck stories.

Very location dependent. We're rural FM and and are all sorts of cool beans.

[Sheherezade]

WPW -

I don't think anyone thinks you are either selfish or delusional! You sound very normal to me.

And FWIW, my comments stem from reading this site's success stories and horror stories for the last 10 years more than any industry research, so take that for what it's worth.

[SoonerTexan]

FWIW, hugs. I'm a planner too and it is really hard to be faced with so much unknown. As much as MS-3 sucked, it was kind of nice to feel like things were kind of "going somewhere." MS-1 and MS-2 are just kind of boring and annoying because there is so much studying and drudgery and you are still 2-3 years off from the "big stuff."

[corn poffi]

One more thing to note: having a lot of certain types of specialists does not necessarily mean that there's no need for them. We have noticed that sometimes, when we hire a new surgeon, the caseload for everybody in that division increases substantially, and the new hire has plenty of work.

Sometimes, the system makes it so hard to see a physician, that patients don't even try to find one in their area. That can screw up the "saturation" stats, depending on how they are measured.

[poky]

WPW -

I don't think anyone thinks you are either selfish or delusional! You sound very normal to me.

And FWIW, my comments stem from reading this site's success stories and horror stories for the last 10 years more than any industry research, so take that for what it's worth.

This.

And mine also come from trying to encourage you to let go, so you don't get wrapped around the axle of needing to get back home. It just feels like you're setting yourself up for more heartache. I know letting go is MUCH easier said than done, though.

[SoonerTexan]

And mine also come from trying to encourage you to let go, so you don't get wrapped around the axle of needing to get back home. It just feels like you're setting yourself up for more heartache. I know letting go is MUCH easier said than done, though.

Yeah, it's true, and I REALLY REALLY want to stay here. Not that you cant try and make things happen as much as you can control, but it is kind of fun to dream a little bit about random locations just for fun. I was totally looking up homes in Asheville, NC last week, even though that is a pipe dream in itself, but it helps open me up to new places

[WolfpackWife]

Yeah, it's true, and I REALLY REALLY want to stay here. Not that you cant try and make things happen as much as you can control, but it is kind of fun to dream a little bit about random locations just for fun. I was totally looking up homes in Asheville, NC last week, even though that is a pipe dream in itself, but it helps open me up to new places

That's true, ST. I'll admit that I have a remax.com account with properties saved in GA, TX, MA, MD, SC, and CO because they are places we've talked about and it's just "for fun". I know there is a degree of 'letting go' that I need to do *anyway* - even if we do match back or close to where we came from - so steeling myself for the situation in that area (which I know isn't great for docs) now means I have that much more time to come to terms with it when/if it doesn't go the way I hope.

Asheville...ugh. LOVE IT. It's so gorgeous there. DT Asheville is one of our favorite places in NC.

[diggitydot]

That's true, ST. I'll admit that I have a remax.com account with properties saved in GA, TX, MA, MD, SC, and CO because they are places we've talked about and it's just "for fun". I know there is a degree of 'letting go' that I need to do *anyway* - even if we do match back or close to where we came from - so steeling myself for the situation in that area (which I know isn't great for docs) now means I have that much more time to come to terms with it when/if it doesn't go the way I hope.

Asheville...ugh. LOVE IT. It's so gorgeous there. DT Asheville is one of our favorite places in NC.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with checking out various cities. It's just REALLY tough to narrow shit down until your dude picks a specialty. After he does, you can research the hell out of the programs and the cities where the appropriate programs are located.

We had a spreadsheet from hell for this. That fucker had every FM program listed in FREIDA and ranked according to our desired criteria. I eventually told DH that I didn't want to hear about the damn thing until the list of 400+ programs was whittled down to less than 20-something.

Your instincts are right, you're just a little early.

[SuzySunshine]

One more thing to note: having a lot of certain types of specialists does not necessarily mean that there's no need for them. We have noticed that sometimes, when we hire a new surgeon, the caseload for everybody in that division increases substantially, and the new hire has plenty of work.

Sometimes, the system makes it so hard to see a physician, that patients don't even try to find one in their area. That can screw up the "saturation" stats, depending on how they are measured.

Yes! DH's group started with 5 with the plan of going to 6 in 3-5 years. They are NOW looking for #6 and are only 18 months in.

[Flynn]

One other idea to keep in mind is that there is a high percentage of docs that leave their first job in 5 years or less. We fit into that statistic. The job market where we wanted to live was super competitive and small -- there were NO JOBS really anywhere ideal when we were done with training. It was a brutal pill to swallow at the time.

We took a job in an okay (being charitable here) location knowing we would really try and make it work. Two years to the day being at that job in that location, DH started looking elsewhere. We found another job and moved four years after taking our first job which sounds painful BUT it's in a dream location for us and the job is such a better fit for DH across the board. Yes moving was painful, and yes we took a pay cut -- but it was SO MUCH BETTER for us in the long run.

Maybe we should post one of those surveys again? Who is still on their first job after training and then have a few more answers that makes the change year specific? My computer skills are pathetic so I'm sorry I'm asking rather than just doing.

Planning is great if it helps you stay positive and flexible. Flexibility is the key.