Boston Public Radio Article re: Physician Burnout

[MrsK]

Interesting? I was particularly surprised by the quoted statistic regarding female physician suicide rates.

http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2013/10...edium=facebook

[Vanquisher]

I'm not surprised. I'm amazed that more docs don't burnout. I think my hubby is teetering on the edge of complete burnout. I'm trying to figure out how to help him.

[GrayMatterWife]

Honestly, I don't think her story is especially unusual. I know tons of lawyers who are the exact same way. They never leave the job. They obsess about every comma in every sentence, and worry about every angle they ever play in an attempt to help their client. And they constantly worry about being sued if they don't help enough. I think it is a byproduct of being smart, caring, involved, and educated, and having a real sense of the impact--good or bad--that you may have on someone's life. I often wake up from the dead of sleep, obsessing about an line in an order I drafted, or double-checking my citations, worried that I've written something that is about to destroy someone's life. Because, a lot of the time, how something is phrase is the difference between someone making it and someone becoming destitute. Sometimes, I feel like I can't breathe.

FWIW, the majority--and I mean that literally--more than 50%--of my closest friends in law school, guys and girls, have left the practice forever. They burned out in less than a decade.

[houseelf]

FWIW, the majority--and I mean that literally--more than 50%--of my closest friends in law school, guys and girls, have left the practice forever. They burned out in less than a decade.

Tangent-

This is my experience as well, *especially* the women. The valedictorian of my class stays at home full time with her kids, two women who made law review do very part time work from home, and a few have started businesses, jumped to banking, etc. When I go back to work, it will not be to practice law. Back in the day, I hated socializing with the attorneys. They were too obsessive, only wanted to rehash work, and tended to be on the depressed side. The court reporters were all sorts of crazy fun. Those were the peeps to hang out with.

Now off to read the article and talk about it as it relates to medicine. /end tangent

[Sheherezade]

Reopen tangent/ I've been seeing all sorts of articles about the rise of alcoholism in women as well. And one essay on the new "mother's little helper": on how the "drive to be the perfect everything" is making women drink a lot of wine medicinally, instead of popping the late 60's Valium. /end tangent

[weeniegeniewife]

Reopen tangent/ I've been seeing all sorts of articles about the rise of alcoholism in women as well. And one essay on the new "mother's little helper": on how the "drive to be the perfect everything" is making women drink a lot of wine medicinally, instead of popping the late 60's Valium. /end tangent

I have a couple of friends IRL who fit this description. I am worried about them.

[MrsK]

Honestly, I don't think her story is especially unusual. I know tons of lawyers who are the exact same way. They never leave the job. They obsess about every comma in every sentence, and worry about every angle they ever play in an attempt to help their client. And they constantly worry about being sued if they don't help enough. I think it is a byproduct of being smart, caring, involved, and educated, and having a real sense of the impact--good or bad--that you may have on someone's life. I often wake up from the dead of sleep, obsessing about an line in an order I drafted, or double-checking my citations, worried that I've written something that is about to destroy someone's life. Because, a lot of the time, how something is phrase is the difference between someone making it and someone becoming destitute. Sometimes, I feel like I can't breathe.

FWIW, the majority--and I mean that literally--more than 50%--of my closest friends in law school, guys and girls, have left the practice forever. They burned out in less than a decade.

This was my experience in BigLaw too. I used to wake up in the evening with heart palpitations, once woke up shrieking because I'd imagined that the corpse of an 80yo man I needed to sign a deed was brought into my office on a dolly. Another time, DrK came home from the hospital at 3AM and found me wringing my hands. I tearfully explained to him that I was distraught about a title defect I'd found while doing due diligence for a client. He sat me down and very reasonably explained that it was not my fault that the property had defective title, that is why I was hired to do the due diligence, and it was up to the client to determine whether the defect was tolerable. Then I went on to sob about how I was bothered by a Declaration of Condominium that I was drafting and I had no idea how I'd persuade Moxie (my dog) to sign the Joinder. He slowly repeated, "How.are.you.going.to.persuade.Moxie.to.sign.the.j oinder?" And I became exasperated and responded, "Of course! How else can I enforce the clause prohibiting her from jumping on the sofa?!" Apparently, I was asleep. Walking, talking, and fretting about my transactions while asleep.

During closings, if something went sideways (and something always goes sideways), although it was never my fault, I'd break into a cold sweat and feel my stomach fall out my bottom. About once a week, my friend, an Ivy League educated lawyer, and I used to call one another and say something along the lines of, "I've gone fetal under my desk. There must be a less stressful profession. Perhaps I should go into trauma surgery." I constantly felt like my livelihood and professional reputation were at risk. People become so enraged over matters of money, I cannot imagine how much more anxiety I would have had if I was handling matters of life and death. Two years after leaving the profession, I still rehash arguments I had many years ago and remember irrationally demanding clients who refused to listen to reason. I wish I could have billed my clients for lost sleep and aggravation. I was so burned out when my firm closed, it was almost a relief to go down with the ship.

[Pollyanna]

Reopen tangent/ I've been seeing all sorts of articles about the rise of alcoholism in women as well. And one essay on the new "mother's little helper": on how the "drive to be the perfect everything" is making women drink a lot of wine medicinally, instead of popping the late 60's Valium. /end tangent

Funny, my mom always says that my generation is very much like the generation just before hers that used to drink heavily.
I know more than my fair share of alcoholics and more women who I truly fear for. Two physician wives I knew, one has now been sober for 6 months and she is a new woman. Another that used to bring alcohol to classroom parties, I imagine she is still drinking. It's just very sad. It bothers me to no end to hear women talking about needing a drink on a regular basis because alcohol is very insidious as it takes control.

[GrayMatterWife]

About once a week, my friend, an Ivy League educated lawyer, and I used to call one another and say something along the lines of, "I've gone fetal under my desk. There must be a less stressful profession. Perhaps I should go into trauma surgery." I constantly felt like my livelihood and professional reputation were at risk. People become so enraged over matters of money, I cannot imagine how much more anxiety I would have had if I was handling matters of life and death.

Oh, my word...that is so funny (pathetic??) that you should make that analogy! I once told my husband that I am sure that if I'd gone to med school, I would have become a trauma surgeon. When I was at BigFirm, I just could not conceive of life without that constant pressure and urgency and stress of life-and-death, do-or-die decisions.

And, I also have seen a LOT of women here in ATL self-medicating with booze. It really surprised me when I got here. There is just no such thing as socially acceptable daytime drinking in StL, at least not if you are in the business world. Doesn't happen. And I don't remember anyone in Dallas drinking during the weekday, either. Clients might, occasionally, but attorneys on the job?--No. Here, many of the women who drink excessively during the day do not work outside the home...they are miserable and stressed out by social (and social-climbing) pressure. That pressure is just out-of-control in ATL. Perfect hair, perfect kids, perfect house, perfect marriage, perfect life... I have two friends here who have had to seek in-hospital treatment. It makes me glad to have a job and not live in the tony burbs. At least I don't even have to try and pretend I can play that game.

[MrsK]

I was just discussing this article with DrK. He said that medicine is the only profession in which the female suicide success rate is equal to that of males. I wonder how much of that is because female physicians know how to do it. In the general population, men are more successful at committing suicide because they are more likely to do so violently. Men shoot themselves while women swallow pills.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[reciprocity]

During closings, if something went sideways (and something always goes sideways), although it was never my fault, I'd break into a cold sweat and feel my stomach fall out my bottom. About once a week, my friend, an Ivy League educated lawyer, and I used to call one another and say something along the lines of, "I've gone fetal under my desk. There must be a less stressful profession. Perhaps I should go into trauma surgery." I constantly felt like my livelihood and professional reputation were at risk.

Yuuuuup. At my last trial, I had to talk a jr associate out of the bathroom he had locked himself in because he was having a meltdown about a witness outline.

Of the folks I was close with in law school, only myself and one of my roommates are still at large firms. Everyone else is in-house, gov't, or has left law entirely. The continued glut of lawyers combined with the recession layoffs has certainly not helped.