QOTW: iMSN

[PrincessFiona]

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN?
2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums?
3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this?
4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership?



Kris

[PrincessFiona]

1. I initially created iMSN out of a need to experience community and support with other medical spouses who were going through similar experiences and feelings to mine.

2. In the public forums, I was drawn to conversations about the stage of training that I was in, as well as to general discussions about life. I made connections with people who I discovered that I wanted to get to know better. I also really enjoyed the debate forum way-back-when.

3. I'm convinced that we don't meet those needs in general areas of the forum ... at least for new members. We have a tendency to utilize the private forums for most discussions and otherwise often the only thing that is updated in the grand rounds forum is a megathread, where people's lives get distilled and lost in back-to-back updates. This does new members a disservice because they have fewer ways to get to know us or to post. I see us as being less active overall in general forums unless one of us makes an effort to post multiple threads to keep things moving. I honestly feel like we should move away from megathreads, which are a FB style of posting/update and are not who we are. It seems like we need to make a bigger effort to post individual threads again.

4. There have been a few suggestions for gaining membership. One of them is to utilize FB more for membership drives.

[Vanquisher]

1. What initially drew me to iMSN was a complete feeling of desperation. Googling different phrases, hoping to find something, someone, somewhere. Anything that would help me. Facebook didn't exist, I think, back then? If it did, it was a completely different thing. I really wanted to find any hope that I wasn't alone.

2. Discussions about work hours and all the medical things surrounding training and surviving training. I was craving a connection. I was craving another person on this planet who understood even a fraction of what I was going through. I needed someone to get "call" and "PGY" and "Step ___" without having to explain it. I needed someone to understand that I couldn't afford peanut butter, let alone caviar.

3. No. I am trying my best to put discussions in the general forums, but no one responds and they die. I think people are moving away from forums to facebook and instagram, but those don't really fulfill the role that iMSN does.

4. I have a lot of suggestions for increasing membership, ones which I have shared with you, and I am willing to try them without hurting the integrity of what iMSN is, but also evolving how we capture people. I definitely think articles on the front page are going to be needed, increased facebook presence (either with a new public one, or opening our current one to the public), advertising exchanges in earnest, as well as grassroots efforts by our members. I do think that we like our little insular, and private world, but as you and I both know, if it continues this way, iMSN will die. It needs new membership to survive and thrive. People have to be willing to be more open and post things that really don't need to be private in grand rounds and other non-private forums.

[GrayMatterWife]

Thoughts:

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN? I LIKED BEING ABLE TO CHAT WITH PEOPLE ABOUT BEING WITH A DOCTOR...WITHOUT THE OTHR PERSON EITHER ASSUMING YHOU ARE RICH. OR LOOKING AT YOU WITH A LOT OF PITY (ESP. WHEN YOU TELL THEM HE IS A SURGEON)

2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums? I LIKED THE DEBATES FORUM TO GET TO KNOW PEOPLE. PEOPLE WITH DIVERSITY OPINIONS AND VIEWPOINTS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN TALKING ABOUT IMPORTANT ISSUES OF THE DAY MAKE GOOD COMPANY.

3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this? I USED TO LOVE THE DEBATES FORUM FOR THE POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS, BUT NOT MUCH HAPPENS THERE NOW. I CAN'T SAY I BLAME ANYONE!! POLITICS HAVE BECOME SO POLARIZED THAT IT IS NOT REALLY FUN ANYMORE. I DON'T REALLY TALK POLITICS ANYMORE. UNLESS I KNOW THAT THE OTHER PERSON WON'T BE OFFENDED OR LAUNCH AD HOMINEM ATTACKS. I HAVE SO MUCH ELSE GOING ON IN MY LIFE NOW-- IT ISN'T WORTH THE TROUBLE.

4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership?

I think we should have a voluntary pen-pal arrangement--maybe the old hands assigned to the newbies. For a month or something: every day, you exchange at least two sentences. or a question and answer or something. Just a way to get to know people. Maybe change pen pal every week--speed dating! haha!

[MAPPLEBUM]

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN?
Adjustment to residency. Specifically, not hearing from my husband on call nights. Which led to the bigger issue of needing to learn when to let an issue slide and when to put my foot down and say things like "no, you really need to call or text by ___ time"


2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums?
There were some debates going on, not many. Fitness threads, Today was pretty active, Book Club, and the Weather thread was particularly of interest since I'd just moved across the country...


3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this?
I actually have an opinion on this and am partially responding to what PF said. I do think needs are being met in general forums. Why? Because new members aren't posting new threads. In fact, they're not even really contributing to the ones older members start. For the most part threads that are being kept up in public forums are done so by the same members who contribute in all of the private forums. I don't think by chastising those older members about keeping their affairs private then moving threads like Rant and Confession to public access is the answer. I can't explain why membership is down, but I don't think the answer is by having more public forums. Primarily, because people are more aware than ever of their online presence, even with a secret moniker. We simply don't want to post our shit on public forums. That's just the fact. When I was a junior member I knew I had to be proactive to post, and post well, so that you guys could get to know me well enough that I'd be accepted into private forums. I guess I DID feel very excluded, and perhaps that no one was interested in getting to know me, but I didn't really care because it's the internet.


4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership?
I think I am still one of your newer members. I've said this before, when I found the website I read one or a few of the articles and then immediately went to the page that said local meet ups. You may have changed it since then but it took me FOREVER to find one that was Midwest related, let alone Wisconsin, only to discover there wasn't one for my town. Which I found ridiculous since we have two huge training hospitals. When I did find the forums it was overwhelming and slightly strange. I'm not bashing the forums because I actually love them now, but I don't think the online forum is as common as it used to be. And I've heard from multiple sources that the interface is not as easy to manage as the most popular Facebook feed. I like the setup, and prefer it to feed style, but it takes awhile to learn.

Lastly, I do think some kind of older/younger member buddy system could be helpful. And all of Heidi's ideas are awesome.

[PrincessFiona]

Mapplebum, I feel like you've misunderstood. No one chastised members for posting in private forums. The question was whether general forums were meeting people's needd by providing the same conversational element to encourage group cohesion, trust, and further membership.
You actually proved it isn't. It's the same people trying to keep public forum s going and threads often die.

If we remain insular and dont give new members a good start to keep coming back, we die.

[SoonerTexan]

QOTW: iMSN

I dunno. What MappleBum wrote rang true to me. It doesn't feel really that different from when I joined 5 years ago. When people are motivated enough, they stick around. I do feel an increasing need to keep my posts private. I was going to write something last night about my husbands schedule and then realized I don't want the world knowing when I'm home alone and posted in colonoscopy instead.

I'll answer the actual questions later.

I have invited the 5 new people I met at side by side to join both in person and via email. They haven't yet...you can only do so much!

[WolfpackWife]

I found iMSN out of desperation and curiousity and loneliness. There were some pretty despearate google searches that lead me here! I actually think I found the homepage several times before I discovered the forum section, which is really what I was looking for. I agree that most activity on the home/landing page would make the site look like it's got great activity. The forum is sort of buried.

I have expressed to you before, Kris, that I hesitate to advertise iMSN to my husband's classmates and their spouses because I've learned that the nature of medicine is a small community and this is such an open and honest place, I don't know how I'd feel knowing things I say could get back to DH or his classmates. It's precarious to be in our stage of training because the wrong move can cost you.

When I first joined, the grand rounds section about specialties, what to expect from training, book club, and intro section were helpful to me and I jumped right in starting threads asking questions and got great feedback - and lots of it. I was really thankful.

This may not pertain to what you're asking exactly, but as one of the VERY FEW med school spouses, I feel sort of isolated by the fact that training is split into separate categories. To me, the split from training/attending makes sense, but to exclude medical school from training is disadvantageous for the 3 - 4 of us who are actually in there. I think it would be helpful to be able to discuss things with people in med school and residency but I know I am in the minority feeling that and have gotten flak in the past for suggesting that. That's really the only place that is lacking for me, personally.

I don't know that I have great suggestions for increasing and maintaining membership, but I am willing to help in any way!

[Ladybug]

1) I was looking for an emotional connection and my DH was MIA (pre80) and I was at home with a new infant. I was very isolated and the internet was my only way "out into the world".

2) I loved the raging debates age, but I feel like we rehashed things so many times that they just died out. The debates is where my post count happened. I loved book discussions. Heady topics that gave me an outlet from the daily diapers and cleaning routines.

3) I have nothing thoughtful to add. I think the technology has made it harder to type long responses. People tweet and like. We've losing our ability to thoughtfully respond to each other.

4) I like the idea of a buddy system. Sometimes it's hard for me to respond to everyone, but I like the idea of being able to respond fully to a buddy. You would lose the diversity of opinions though.

[MsSassyBaskets]

1) There was a total lack of spousal support at my husband's school. I had no idea what we had gotten ourselves into. I didn't understand the training process, rotations, residency and match, etc. DH was starting to get sick of my questions, and I started googling.

2) Discussions in the public forums were mostly light and fluffy - clothing, minor debates, and everyday issues or questions (what coffee maker should I get? what did you do today?). I wouldn't say there was anything super "helpful" except when I asked questions or others asked questions about the training process.

3) I've said it before, I think more content "for dummies" about the training process and specialties could be helpful. The specialties sticky is beyond out of date. We could try a couple new threads about "what is your spouse's specialty, how long was residency, how long was fellowship, what are hours like, how many programs did (s)he apply to, how competitive is it, what is the personality type, how is the job market?" etc. If you get a lot of good stuff, sticky them and get rid of the old one.

4) Consider better SEO. I notice that on Google, phrases like "doctor wife" "physician wife" "doctor spouse" and "physician spouse" along with "support group" did not get me here. You have to use the word "medical" to find it. A lot of people get here by googling, so see what you can do to appear higher in search results. Look for doctor wife blogs and ask them to link to us. For the love of god, take down super-old stickies about "required reading for all members" about people not getting along back in 2009 and things like that. It makes the site look incredibly out of date. If an entire forum area is not being used more than every month or so (ahem, art therapy? Travel?) roll it back into Grand Rounds. All the fragmentation makes it look like the public areas are not used as much.

And finally, when freaked out new members come looking for support?? Bite your tongues. Lie. Be gentle. Whatever you have to do to be nice. Everybody here thinks they're an expert and there's a habit of dogpiling, even if it's in the name of honesty and support. If I had posted something sensitive at the beginning and gotten that kind of response, I would have slinked away in shame and never come back. Thankfully I started by jumping into posts about your favorite brand of jeans and whatever, and the only sensitive issues I talked about were homesickness and thinking ahead about baby-making. If I had had a true issue - if DH was feeling in trouble in his program, if something wasn't going well - I probably would have been too ashamed to come back after some of the heavy-handed responses given out around here. Some people are tougher than that. I'm not, I'm sensitive. I'm not trying to be a bitch, really. I get where you all are coming from, and I've contributed to some of it myself. But new members, especially those early in the training process, might feel a little too raw to handle some of that. I would say the same for some of the negativity, especially in the form of posts about how "90% of physicians now say they hate their jobs and wouldn't do it again" and the like. I get why it's relevant, but it doesn't make for a welcoming environment that people want to join. Stuff like that should go in its own special place reserved for negativity and bitching.

[SoonerTexan]

QOTW: iMSN

^AMEN

And I think I'm totally guilty of the negative dogpiling sometimes too!

Actually...I'm pretty sure that sticky was a result of me joining. I still remember some of my early threads and how harsh some of the responses seemed, though I go back now and they don't seem nearly as harsh now that I've been here and in training for awhile. So yes, we do need to be less harsh to the newbies. I actually have had a lot of thoughts on the topic of how caustic I've gotten lately, but I'll share elsewhere.

Luckily I can't shut up (see post count) and the initial responses didn't keep me away

[WolfpackWife]

And finally, when freaked out new members come looking for support?? Bite your tongues. Lie. Be gentle. Whatever you have to do to be nice. Everybody here thinks they're an expert and there's a habit of dogpiling, even if it's in the name of honesty and support. If I had posted something sensitive at the beginning and gotten that kind of response, I would have slinked away in shame and never come back. Thankfully I started by jumping into posts about your favorite brand of jeans and whatever, and the only sensitive issues I talked about were homesickness and thinking ahead about baby-making. If I had had a true issue - if DH was feeling in trouble in his program, if something wasn't going well - I probably would have been too ashamed to come back after some of the heavy-handed responses given out around here. Some people are tougher than that. I'm not, I'm sensitive. I'm not trying to be a bitch, really. I get where you all are coming from, and I've contributed to some of it myself. But new members, especially those early in the training process, might feel a little too raw to handle some of that. I would say the same for some of the negativity, especially in the form of posts about how "90% of physicians now say they hate their jobs and wouldn't do it again" and the like. I get why it's relevant, but it doesn't make for a welcoming environment that people want to join. Stuff like that should go in its own special place reserved for negativity and bitching.

I really agree with most of this, MSB. My initial posts were pretty emotional and raw and I got lots of great responses...but also some pretty harsh ones, too. It shocked me, but a few PMs helped settle that for me by explaining that some people had/were having really tough times and to not let it scare me.

I think it's really easy for people to contribute to the negative posts and the "dogpiling" of warnings to new members when you're on the other side of training - making money, seeing SOME reward from this (even if it's just in the form of a little more financial support) - but when you're in my shoes for example...the repeated reminders that hours never get better, so many physicians hate their jobs, even things like suicide rates in residents (holy shit, scary), the dissatisfaction as a spouse continues to mount, resentment never goes away is R-O-U-G-H to read when you're not even CLOSE to being finished. I can't tell you how many fights I've gotten into with my husband over hypothetical things about our future because I've read such bleak stuff. And that's really on me - I don't handle that info well, I'm also sensitive and need to cling to SOMETHING positive about the future, but it is trying sometimes to have to come to terms with just how shitty all of this can be and will be until retirement. That is, if you every get to retire...which we increasingly hear more and more that retirement isn't a possibility for some people/debt will never allow them to/by the time your spouse retires there will be little to nothing of them left because of the stress, etc.

[MsSassyBaskets]

^AMEN

And I think I'm totally guilty of the negative dogpiling sometimes too!

Actually...I'm pretty sure that sticky was a result of me joining. I still remember some of my early threads and how harsh some of the responses seemed, though I go back now and they don't seem nearly as harsh now that I've been here and in training for awhile. So yes, we do need to be less harsh to the newbies.

Exactly - it doesn't even seem harsh after you've been here for a while. Which is why I completely understand it - we're not all a bunch of nasty, bitter hags. Seriously, we aren't. We've just toughened up a bit. Think of newbies as delicate flowers who bruise easily. They need hugs.

[spotty_dog]

1. I have been in the habit since the mid-90s of finding message boards related to topics of interest to me. In 2002/2003, planning a wedding to a dawkter and starting to wonder about how raising a family would be affected by his career was the topic of interest to me. I wouldn't be surprised if I originally searched for "best time to have a baby during medical training," LOL.

2. I used to love reading Nellie's posts about paint colors and cooking, Flynn and Kelly's posts about the horrifying realities of surgical residency (tempered by their obvious strength and pluck raising their families during that tough time), Kris's posts about her family, and even Rapunzel's viciously sharp debate skillz. I have no idea how much of this was public.

3. I got here over 10 years ago. At the time, I lurked for a while, then joined and posted tentatively, and eventually got up the guts to request admission to the private forums. The public areas weren't content-rich back then, and you got the feeling that everybody was talking behind a closed door. But in hindsight that isn't such a bad thing. Because those conversations WERE happening. So yes, I think that need is being met.

4. I know that my opinion about this is highly unpopular, but after ~20 years in internet communities from CompuServe to AOL to Livejournal/Ravelry/Facebook/PHPBB, I still believe strongly that a thriving discussion forum lives or dies on its old timers, not its new members. We stick around because there is community, there are people here we care about and voices here we "know". When something frustrates us, or we have a little joy, we think "OMG I so need to vent/rave about that on iMSN." Not on Ravelry, or Facebook, or the Aquarium Fish forum. Here. Because our people are here. So in that sense, I think the mega-threads that you so detest are serving a very important purpose. They're keeping us coming back. No, they're not easy to jump into if you're new. But they're more "real" and develop more of the voice of our members than do surveys and get-to-know-yous. I do think moving them to the public forums was a great idea. It gives newcomers a place to post, and reserves the private forums for more specific concerns. But community-building and oldtimer-cultivating means that we maybe need to make sure that oldtimers have earned the right to say their piece and not get slapped down for it. If people with valuable insight are discouraged from posting because they might not be delicate enough in sharing what they've personally been through, then they get out of the habit of participating at all, and they drift away, and then we have no core of Nellies and Flynns and Jenns (all the Jenns!) to give that comforting familiarity to this space.

[MsSassyBaskets]

But community-building and oldtimer-cultivating means that we maybe need to make sure that oldtimers have earned the right to say their piece and not get slapped down for it. If people with valuable insight are discouraged from posting because they might not be delicate enough in sharing what they've personally been through, then they get out of the habit of participating at all, and they drift away, and then we have no core of Nellies and Flynns and Jenns (all the Jenns!) to give that comforting familiarity to this space.

I think you're absolutely right - I don't mean it to sound like I don't think people should share their experiences. I've learned a ton about realistic expectations from all of you. I just mean that the welcome/introductions threads or new members first big posts might not be the best place for heavier responses, and that newbies could benefit from some extra gentle handling when they are freaked out. That's all.