QOTW: iMSN

[WolfpackWife]

I think you're absolutely right - I don't mean it to sound like I don't think people should share their experiences. I've learned a ton about realistic expectations from all of you. I just mean that the welcome/introductions threads or new members first big posts might not be the best place for heavier responses, and that newbies could benefit from some extra gentle handling when they are freaked out. That's all.

FWIW, I feel the same way. A lot of the realistic perspectives and expectations have been very grounding for me. Even though we had 4 years btwn undergrad and med school, I was totally unprepared, even though I really thought I was. The info and insight given is invaluable - truly. But I think most people find themselves coming here in a very dark and lonely time (I did, at least) and that's not the time to have to learn the realities behind being married to an Esteemed Doctor.

[Pollyanna]

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN?

It was dh's intern year and I had asked him some questions about schedule and upcoming rotations and he didn't know the answers. I was commonly annoyed that their wasn't a guide or some form of information that would explain what to expect. So I decided to try and find the info myself one lonely call night and low and behold found iMSN


2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums?

I cut my teeth on the debates. I would guess 90% of my posts were from those threads. We debated some heavy topics but there just was just a different feel or make-up of members so it was fun to debate. I loved getting to know people that way. Like GMW, I don't do the debates so much anymore.

3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this?

I don't think you can be all things to all people. I know my needs are met but if I am missing something I will ask. Some folks might just sit back and complain about their needs not being met. It has to be a two way street. An internet forum cannot be an end all and be all to someone's existence.

4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership?

Hmmm, I'm not sure tbh. I like the ideas others have thrown out there. I do have some issue with the folks wanting a "kindler and gentler" introduction. I guess I rarely see an introduction to iMSN that I would consider harsh. I mean on one hand some folks want a gentle intro but on the other they like the honesty. At what point do we stop being gentle and start being honest? I think it's a fine line. Look, this is coming from the gal that has ruffled feathers in the past for being too positive and I have also been told I'm "not real" because I am positive. Yet I am very real, this is who I am. IMO, if you're asking the hard questions you better be ready to hear the real answers. I'd be pissed if I bared my soul and was treated to sunshine and rainbows only to find out later I was just being gently welcomed in. The beauty of iMSN is that you CAN lay it all out there, you can bare your soul and folks will tell you the honest truth (even if it sucks). Those are the folks that really care about you and are telling you that they are here for you and willing to go into battle with you. I want those folks to be my peeps even if their honesty makes me uncomfortable some times. I do get the feeling more and more that the honesty is welcome but only under certain conditions. I sensor my posts more than I ever have in an effort to not hurt feelings. But look, if the over all majority of members want a different feel to the group then it will be what it will be. This is just my opinion.
I've noticed that the FB LDW group has now started adding more groups. They have a general group, one for moms, one for fitness, etc. It is becoming more iMSN like with the new distinctions. It still is a huge group and of course is just more of a drive by but as they have different groups of more manageable sizes it certainly becomes more competitive with iMSN. But I do think some of those members would also like the closeness and community you get with iMSN.

[MAPPLEBUM]

Mapplebum, I feel like you've misunderstood. No one chastised members for posting in private forums. The question was whether general forums were meeting people's needd by providing the same conversational element to encourage group cohesion, trust, and further membership.
You actually proved it isn't. It's the same people trying to keep public forum s going and threads often die.

If we remain insular and dont give new members a good start to keep coming back, we die.

I'm sorry if my response sounded caustic, I didn't mean for it to be. Can I ask how many new members you would like to see continue throughout the year(s)? It seems like we've had about 3 accepted to private forums just in the last few months, which to me seems pretty good.

The other obvious option is LDW, which has over 2,000 members. I know many people have found community there but for me the format is not conducive to conversation and there's just WAY too many people. But it makes sense. Big numbers, less discourse. Smaller numbers, more discourse. And even though I'm on here just about every day I still get some of the regulars mixed up. Especially when they disappear for a few weeks/months and then all of a sudden. Who is this person again? What does their spouse do? And for the type of conversations we're having I usually do want to be able to recall some background. I'm sure you're not wanting big numbers but iMSN is far from dying.

But I do think the general population is moving towards more privacy with their internet interactions. Not even that I'm ALWAYS terrified that say, my MIL lurks in the shadows but I just don't like the idea that anyone who's happened upon the page can see whatever I'm saying. I've almost entirely stopped contributing to the megathreads, because typically what I want to rant, vent, or confess is not anything I'd like anyone and everyone to see. I just think this is the general trend everyone is taking with their online presence. It's like, I keep my friends list on Facebook at around 1,000. Personal choice. Do not say any of the kind of shit I used to say when I kept it at 300.

[LynnAlicia]

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN? DH getting into medical school and being nervous about going with him. Wanting to find out what it's like to be a doctor's spouse.
2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums? The random ones (rave and rant) because I like hearing about everyone's lives. Also ones about general life, things you would ask your friends (us!) about -clothes, gifts, random life questions.
3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this? Yes.
4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership? Keeping threads mostly positive. I do want a place I can complain for support but I also want friends to talk about normal things with. The Facebook group, Lives of Doctors Wives, is super negative and trashy. I stopped reading it. I like this because it's not like that.

[alotofyarn]

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN? It was getting close to match, and I was posting on a Ravelry board that was pretty much dead, so spotty_dog finally invited me over here.

2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums? I feel like I just started a bunch of my own threads and put myself out there asking questions and starting conversations.

3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this? I think so, but I guess I also haven't been around long enough to know what the site was like a long time ago. I like a good mix of serious medical-type questions and conversations about support, and light conversations about daily life in general or just random conversation.

4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership? I don't really know. I've tried to share the site with a few friends, but they're just not into forums.

[rainbabies]

I joined via SDN.
Dh was in his final year of med school. I think I was on SDN looking at residency reputation threads, when I came across Alison mentioning imsn. That was 9 years ago. I'm not as active on here as I used to be. But! I do check in everyday. A handful of the ladies here are near and dear to me.

[Sheherezade]

I got here through Google. My toddler was struggling with never seeing his daddy. It was breaking my heart and I was looking for other moms with husbands that had call. I think I was admitted to MM early after sending a PM to an admin about my need to post privately. I'd been lurking for a year or so at that point. Since that toddler is now 18, it must have been aged ago.

It's no surprise then that my preference is for more privacy. My DH has never been in a program with more than 8 residents; it would be easy to identify him from my posts. That would have just caused more stress in our marriage - not support.

I agree with almost everything Sassy had to say.

We used to have a more mellow tone around here. Our snark is fun, but I'm not so sure it's welcoming. Also, debates used to be key and very intellectually stimulating for this group of smart spouses often trapped at home; now, they get emotional and ugly fast. It's gotten way too partisan.

[ladymoreta]

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN?
I found it through SDN. Their spouse forums weren't very active, and I came across someone's post that mentioned it, so I looked it up. It was DH's intern year, and I had babies on my mind. "When is the best time to have kids in medical training?"

2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums?
I loved the Debates section. I think it's demise was caused more by culture than our members. Like others have said, you can't really discuss politics now the way you could when I joined 6 years ago in any social setting. I also felt like the blogs were more active back then. I learned a lot about people from those entries, which is why I continue to champion the idea of at least having a monthly thread for updates from everyone. Keeping up a blog was definitely too much work, but I could handle a post a month to hit highlights and keep up with everyone. A lot of the blogs were only visible to people on the author's friend list, so it wasn't that different from private level if they didn't want it to be.

3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this?
I think so. I guess I don't really know what needs you think aren't being met. On the Grand Rounds page currently we have threads for random chatter, threads with ice-breaker type questions, a debate-ish thread about HIPPA, and a few more personal threads. When I look through our Call Room page, I see posts that reveal identifying information about our children, spouses, family, etc. I guess that's what I think private forums are for - things you don't want strangers to be able to use in a harmful way against your loved ones. I agree that it's not so much the type of activity that we have in our private or open areas, but it's more of a change in how people are using the internet socially. Drive-by posts, like them or not, are more common. I know almost nobody on LDW besides the people I know from here, but the chatter is fun to read when I have time. This is a place to get to know members and actually have real friendships. That takes a deeper level of intimacy that comes as people meet the post requirement to gain Call Room access over time.

4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership?
I like the suggestions for changing what prompts Google to list us. SDN comes up when I search for "medical school spouse support" and "resident spouse support", but we're not even on the first page. Articles would also help, if they would allow a wider range of searches to come back to our site from search engines. What I found when trying to write an article, though, is that I didn't like it. It came across as if it were the opinion of the whole site. As we all know, we disagree on a lot of topics. An article would have to be pretty generic and probably link back to a thread where we've hashed it out with all the different viewpoints to really be useful. Or we could get away from that format and move towards Cracked/Buzzfeed types of articles. "5 ways to know if it's the right time to have a baby", "10 signs your spouse is sleep deprived", "7 phrases that will earn your spouse a visit from The Bus", "20 awesome things you can't do if your medical spouse is off work".

For maintaining membership, I don't really know. I feel like there are significantly fewer people joining at all lately, but the ones who have joined in conversations are pretty darned awesome about working their way into the private forums and being really open about who they are.

[SoonerTexan]

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN?

My college roommate mentioned it to me. She read about it in some article. I'm so thankful she did. DH was my fiance then and was applying to med school. I was stressed about the short term upheaval and long term implications of being a medical wife based on DH's experiences growing up. It's amazing, we've graduated college, gotten married, had two kids, gone through the match, and graduated med school/started residency on here!

2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums? I didn't lurk and probably should have, but I've never been the lurking type. I asked a ton of questions about the medical lifestyle and particular medical schools. Some of those are the ones I thought were harsh, but there was also a ton of good info that got me hooked.

3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this? I do think so. People are always welcomed in introductory posts and encouraged to post more. Any questions they have are usually answered (although like others mentioned, we could probably be a little softer initially). I've never liked the debate threads. Maybe it was different back in the day, but for the most part, I feel like I have had bad experiences there. It is too easy to get upset or nasty when a physical person is not in front of you. (I actually did a paper on this in college!) More than once, a conflict from that area (or hell, something that I didn't even thing would turn into a debate) has really upset me and put me in a funk for a few days.It's a personal problem, but there it is.

4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership? I've tried to share with people I know in real life over and over. Some have come and posted for a week or so, but that's it. I really think it takes a certain type of person and not everyone is that type. And frankly, I don't necessarily want people I know in real life from the medical world to read everything I post here. It's selfish, but true. Hell, my MIL would be a great candidate for this site, but GAWD NO. In the past 5 years it really doesn't seem like membership or new arrivals has dropped. It's had its slow moments, but it picks up again too.

I miss the private megathreads. I've found myself wanting to post something and then not posting at all because I didn't want it to be public and did not feel the need to start a new thread for a number of reasons. I have started specific threads for other rants/confessions, so it isn't like I'm completely censoring myself.

Sometimes it scares me a little when I think about how much I put out here, even in the private areas. I jokingly told DH recently that he could never go into politics because people would find a gold mine on us here! Most of the time, I really don't mind sharing because I truly appreciate the community, but I admit, I sort of resent the push to make more public. I don't want to.

[mommax3]

QOTW: iMSN

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN? I have been here since the very beginning, (1997-ish), when this place was a forum as part of ivillage. DH was an intern, we had a mostly non-verbal 2 year old, I was pregnant, and we had just moved from our home state to TX for a residency (that he didn't seek out or interview for) with the military. I knew no one where we lived and honestly worried sometimes that something would happen to me and no one would know for days because DH was gone all the time (this was pre-80 hour work weeks). I was sooooo lonely!

2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums? Private/general....it was all the same when I started! Everyone was pretty much in the same boat, as I recall...still in training, with little kids, doing the heavy lifting of life while our spouses were at work. We all had questions and we helped each other along as we got answers.

3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this? I honestly don't know. I think the world (both online and real life) is a very different place than it was 17 years ago. Everyone is more connected. If Facebook had been a thing when DH was an intern, I don't know that I would have felt as isolated as I did, and maybe I wouldn't have looked for support as hard. I am definitely more conscious of my privacy now than I was in the good old days! I don't feel like I have the same rapport here that I used to. Some of the members I was closest to no longer post, and I don't often feel that issues I may be having specific to where we are (fallout from the hours DH has been keeping for 17 years, for example) are "kosher" subjects, because they don't apply to many of the newer members and may be seen as discouraging. I admit I have done my share of "back in my day...." posts, and I know they aren't helpful, but I have taken on somewhat of a "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" mentality, and feel like if I made it through, others will too. I have also noticed, as I've gotten older, that I have less of a need to give an opinion or give advice because it seems like people have to figure things out for themselves anyway. I have taken to sending PMs when I have specific advice because I am not sure how the advice will be perceived by the general posting population. Also, there are days when I read a complaint about hours or night fIoat and honestly, I want validation for how hard it was when DH went through. That's petty on my part, I know. I don't really have any doctor spouse friends in real life, so I still have the need to interact with people who "get it", but I feel like I am aging out of the forums here, if you know what I mean. The toddler that I had when I first started posting hopes to enter med school in 2017....I don't want my (future, hypothetical) daughter-in-law to come here for support some day and find her ancient MIL, you know? I post as often as I can (working part and now full-time for the past 8 years has certainly cut down on that!), but often feel like my posts are unacknowledged, probably because many people feel like they don't "know" me, which I understand.

4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership?
I think having a presence on Facebook and Twitter could be a good way to draw people here.

[civilspouse]

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN?
We'd recently moved across the country for med school. I was lonely and googling.

2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums?
I lurked for a LONG time. DH finally convinced me to join and then it took me forever to get enough posts to have access to the private forums. I really liked all of the information on the training process, the nuts and bolts. I really had no idea what we were getting into and sometimes DH didn't either. It helped us have lots of good discussions. I felt like there was plenty of great information in the general forums and was content there for a long time. I didn't want to intrude on the private conversations. There were some slow periods in the general forums where I wouldn't see anything I was interested in, but I kept coming back. I really enjoyed a lot of the parenting stuff too. I've always loved kids and was looking forward to starting a family. When we had kids the things I read on here influenced my stroller & baby wearing purchases and decision to use cloth diapers.

I was happy to have access to the private forums as we were going through the match. That is when I really started posting more. DH would even chime in and ask me to post questions on here. He began to see what a valuable resource you all are. I don't know what the past years would have been like for us without this site. It has been so wonderful to have an idea of what is upcoming in the big picture. I don't think DH would have had the foresight to start saving for interviews, moving, etc if I hadn't read about the expenses on here. The knowledge that DH would be gone all the time and I'd be alone with the kids during residency has been helpful as we've made this adjustment. I was mentally prepared and am just pleasantly surprised when he is home.

3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this?
I feel like they are fine, but I usually don't pay much attention to what private and what isn't unless I feel like I'm posting something sensitive.

4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership?
I disagree with the suggestions to go easy on new members. As I said I lurked for a long time (and still lurk a lot and don't post often) so that may influence my opinion. By the time I started posting I had a pretty good feel for things and an idea of the type of responses I would receive if I posted something. I like the honesty. I like the differing opinions. It has allowed me to prepare for things. The negative responses are usually eventually balanced out with some more positive ones. I think of it like advice from a family member. What they say may hurt, but they just want the best for you. Yes, sometimes I wonder what the point is if after training everything will still be horrible but I think for the most part there are people here in all stages of training who seem happy. That is what I take away. The medical lifestyle is hard, even after training, but it is what you make of it. You can still have a good life despite crappy schedules. I think the suggestions about making the site appear higher in google searches would be good as that is how a lot of people find it and highlighting the forums on the front page a little more.

[MAPPLEBUM]

I don't feel like I have the same rapport here that I used to. Some of the members I was closest to no longer post, and I don't often feel that issues I may be having specific to where we are (fallout from the hours DH has been keeping for 17 years, for example) are "kosher" subjects, because they don't apply to many of the newer members and may be seen as discouraging. I admit I have done my share of "back in my day...." posts, and I know they aren't helpful, but I have taken on somewhat of a "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" mentality, and feel like if I made it through, others will too. I have also noticed, as I've gotten older, that I have less of a need to give an opinion or give advice because it seems like people have to figure things out for themselves anyway. I have taken to sending PMs when I have specific advice because I am not sure how the advice will be perceived by the general posting population. Also, there are days when I read a complaint about hours or night fIoat and honestly, I want validation for how hard it was when DH went through. That's petty on my part, I know. I don't really have any doctor spouse friends in real life, so I still have the need to interact with people who "get it", but I feel like I am aging out of the forums here, if you know what I mean. The toddler that I had when I first started posting hopes to enter med school in 2017....I don't want my (future, hypothetical) daughter-in-law to come here for support some day and find her ancient MIL, you know? I post as often as I can (working part and now full-time for the past 8 years has certainly cut down on that!), but often feel like my posts are unacknowledged, probably because many people feel like they don't "know" me, which I understand.
.

This makes me sad. Though I do think we've all felt ignored on here at one time or another. But I'm not in favor of censoring opinions and feelings. Especially as someone who has no desire or plans to procreate I would be way more inclined to read a thread about what's going on with a mother of teenagers and your experience x amount of years outside of training than any number of the threads about early childhood parenting.

I do see a lot of times a new member will post something personal and it's not so much what older members say but how many say it. I know when I first joined it really meant a lot to me to read everyone's responses but who's to say the next person to come around wouldn't feel overwhelmed by it?

I guess that's why my opinion is more sure, let's update our ways to get new members if that's a priority for the Admins but once they're here we shouldn't try to change especially the needs and desires of the long time members to accommodate for an idea of what MIGHT keep new members around. We do have a lot of very smart independent women on here, like you. I want to hear what they have to say. Even if it's a harsh truth. I know I'm less sensitive from others but I am very suspicious as soon as I see the members of a community not feeling comfortable enough to speak their opinion.

I hope you will start contributing your true thoughts and opinions. I would personally appreciate them.

[lovelight]

1. What needs drew you initially to the iMSN?
I initially found iMSN when we were recently married, applying/interviewing for residency, and I was living 2 hours away because I could not find a job in the city he was going to med school. We just had a lot of crap going on all at once. Google led me here...

2. What discussions in the general forums were helpful to you before you gained admission to the private forums?
I honestly can't remember. All I know is I wanted to gain private access because I'm very leery of putting my life on the internet. I remember participating mostly in pleasantry type threads...weather, new articles, recipes, etc. I was (and still am) worried about who could possibly stumble upon the website and see the things I was saying. Even with the private forums that concerns me (who might join in the future?), especially when it comes to things like work hour restrictions, marriage issues, and, now, my baby.

3. Do you feel like we are still meeting those needs in the general areas of the forums? If not, how do you think we can improve this?
I think we are doing the best we can. I actually had to log on to my computer to see which threads were posted where, etc. Ultimately, each person is going to decide if the forum is helpful for them and whether they want to stick around or not. I don't know if there is much we can do to change that.

I did feel like the nature of the public forums makes it hard to get to know the private access members, but I never faulted the forums for that. If anything, I think it's my problem when committing to memory who says what and even undersharing about myself. I know I pop in and out as life ebbs and flows.

4. What suggestions do you have for increasing and maintaining membership?
I have invited a few friends myself, like others have said, and none have ever made their way over. I'm not really sure what we can do. Do we have to do something? FWIW, I think if we do want to have a Facebook presence we should do it with a different group as opposed to making the current group public...again, my own personal paranoia coming in to play there.

[spotty_dog]

So, with regards to the question about increasing and maintaining membership...I was wondering when was the last time anyone logged out and tried to navigate the site with "newbie eyes"? Also, has anyone tried registering a new account. I did the latter experiment recently. I was a bit alarmed and intimidated that the registration page asked for my home address and informed me that the moderators could delete my posts at any time. Once I had a login, I was able to access pages like the Calendar...which stops at December 2012. And the Blogs...which have a few heartfelt entries from people who are not actually forum members, and which I'd never actually noticed before.

But unfortunately I never got my account activation email, so my test account is unable to really participate in the forums. I wonder if other potential members are having this problem? Anyone else want to experiment? My spam filter might be overprotective (though I doubt it, since stuff with subjects like "xPurchasez Medicinep Todayg rhoda" gets through and usually goes to the junk folder.) I can't figure out how to get the activation email re-sent either.

[Pollyanna]

So, with regards to the question about increasing and maintaining membership...I was wondering when was the last time anyone logged out and tried to navigate the site with "newbie eyes"? Also, has anyone tried registering a new account. I did the latter experiment recently. I was a bit alarmed and intimidated that the registration page asked for my home address and informed me that the moderators could delete my posts at any time. Once I had a login, I was able to access pages like the Calendar...which stops at December 2012. And the Blogs...which have a few heartfelt entries from people who are not actually forum members, and which I'd never actually noticed before.

But unfortunately I never got my account activation email, so my test account is unable to really participate in the forums. I wonder if other potential members are having this problem? Anyone else want to experiment? My spam filter might be overprotective (though I doubt it, since stuff with subjects like "xPurchasez Medicinep Todayg rhoda" gets through and usually goes to the junk folder.) I can't figure out how to get the activation email re-sent either.

Really good idea! I'll give it a try too!