Staring at a Possible Medical Spouse Future

This forum is great, and you folks all sound like such wonderful people. I hope to get to know all of you better. I am using my first post here to share my story and ask a couple of questions.


I am dating a woman in Med school with big ambitions (I suppose that's a bit redundant!). We are wonderful together, a fact that is easily recognized by our friends and family as well. Truth be told, I'm very much in love with her, and would be a very happy man spending my life with her.

She is currently a fourth year Med student, looking toward her residency starting in 2005. She is interested in Pediatric Neurosurgery, so there will be plenty of additional work to do even after the residency.

I decided to finally write in to this forum, because I have similar questions to a lot of others: I'm not sure what exactly to expect in our future, which makes long-term planning definitely tricky.

I understand from reading other threads here that she will be going through a lot of long days, and that she will need some additional TLC. I am very happy to be there for her in every way that I can, and I would love to be the man in her corner, making her dreams possible. We have recently started discussing long-term plans and the possibility of marriage and kids someday.

So, question #1 would be: Although I understand that the next 7 years or so are going to be crazy...how crazy are we talking? Are we talking about not having time for movies, not having time for meals, or not having time to shower? At points in my life, I've been in all three states of craziness, although I could not sustain the pace of the latter for very long.

The other complicating factor is my own career. I am an entrepreneur and founder and president of a fairly successful software company. I personally would relocate for my honey (yes, it must be love!), but I know that we would lose at least half of our employees if I relocated the company. On the other hand, I'm not sure I could manage the venture successfully from a remote location if I left by myself.

If she should Match in another part of the country, I feel that the best thing I could do with regards to both my sweetheart and my company would be to sell the company (or hire an acting president)...which means I would be faced with the prospect of being in a new city with no company, no friends and relying only on only my girlfriend for support...and I know what she will be going through!

Question #2 is: How do you all manage your own careers when you are making long-term plans with you doctor spouse? Do you just hope that your spouse matches locally?

Be honest with me here: Are we biting off more than we could possibly chew? A Pediatric Neurosurgeon (to be) and the President of a software development company? Can we make this work? We are fantastic together, and hopelessly in love, but I want to keep my head involved in the planning instead of leading with just my heart.

Thanks in advance (and thanks for reading this! I didn't expect it to be so long when I started)! I have a feeling you will see a good bit of me here.

[PrincessFiona]

Welcome to the group! It's nice to hear from another male spouse. We do have a few here who are 'regulars'

My husband finished his fellowship 2.5 years ago (wow, how time flies!) He's an ID specialist and we did extra years of residency in both Germany and N. Ireland......I can only speak from my experience in an Internal Medicine Residency Program as well as Fellowship..

In answer to your questions:

So, question #1 would be: Although I understand that the next 7 years or so are going to be crazy...how crazy are we talking? Are we talking about not having time for movies, not having time for meals, or not having time to shower? At points in my life, I've been in all three states of craziness, although I could not sustain the pace of the latter for very long.

Hmmm....I'm almost afraid to answer you here The truth be told, residency can indeed mean not having time for meals, movies and showers BUT....there is a sort of ebb and flow to this that very much depends on the rotation that your spouse is on. Surgery though (neurosurgery in particular) is indeed a pretty 'malignant' program. Many surgical programs still institute 1:2 call though it is illegal now. What you can expect is several months of q3 call which means that every 3rd night she will have to work all night and likely all day the next day too. There will be some months where you think you just can't take it anymore followed by a calmer month where you begin to see that light at the end of the tunnel. Many couples survive this by changing their expectations and recognizing that it is temporary. Lifestyle post-training depends very much on the choice of job as well as specialty and I don't know much about call schedules for pediatric neurosurgeons.

Question #2 is: How do you all manage your own careers when you are making long-term plans with you doctor spouse? Do you just hope that your spouse matches locally?

I speak as a woman..and I think that women more traditionally are expected to backburner their careers and this is more 'socially acceptable'. I will say that I personally had to lower my professional expectations and become very flexible. I went back to school and studied what was available to me in the place that he matched for both residency and fellowship. I did everything part-time and have to admit that I tended to focus more on the children than I did on my career. This was as much out of my desire as a mother as it was out of necessity. With one partner working all of the time, the other parent really has to do the job of parenting alone.

Even now, post-training, lifestyle continues to dictate this.

The Match is an unpredictable beast, I'm afraid. There are many 'success' stories of people who end up where they hope to be and many disappointments where spouse's with faculty appointments, companies, etc have to face the disappointment of a disappointing match result.

I know I'm being brutally honest here.....but I think that it is important to give you the answers that you are asking. It sounds to me like you and your girlfriend are in a serious relationship and that you are both contemplating the future and your lives together. I don't think that neurosurgery is 'biting off more than you can chew' as long as you know in advance what you are getting into so that you know what to expect and can plan for all eventualities.

There are many medical families out there 'surviving' tough residency programs and they are managing well. It is definitely possible to survive and thrive......

hope this didn't scare you away

kris

[Flynn]

Let me start by asking a few questions myself. I am assuming your girlfriend will be doing several years of neurosurgery (5-7 years if she does lab time) and THEN she will do a pediatric fellowship? I think that's the course but my DH is not in that field so I might be mistaken. If I'm right, you need to factor in lab time, 1 to 2 years, to set up for being an excellent candidate for fellowships. We are talking a minimum of 8 (probably nine) years here if my path is the one most taken. In any event, it's a LONG road you might take with her...

#1
Your girlfriend has chosen a surgical path, one I am very familiar with, and let me tell you from the beginning you have no idea what you are getting into. None. I'm sure you are a hearty person and have gone through things that are extremely difficult. We all have. However, being in love (and perhaps married) to a surgical resident will test what you think the word "challenging" means. I'm not trying to be dramatic, just truthful.

The good news is that most programs are doing a decent effort to abide by the 80 hour government mandate (on a side note, at the U of W -- they do not stick by the 80 hours in neurosurgery) so the 100 - 125 hours a week of a surgical resident is a thing of the past in most programs.

Here's what you cannot prepare for:
The long hours are difficult at best but eventually it wears on any relationship and it especially wears on the person going through the hours. They change. When they have sleep, (which is rare) they are the person you fell in love with, when they do not -- they are a mere shadow of the person you love. Your girlfriend will see plenty of death, blood and awful situations (drug addicts, beaten children, etc.) during her rotations which will also wear on her. People who she is attached to will die and she will have to talk to the families. She will make mistakes, hopefully not life threatening ones, and beat herself up for weeks on end.

Giving your girlfriend TLC will help, but honestly she won't be able to appreciate it most of the time because she will be brain dead or sleeping. It gets frustrating when you are doing so much for the person you love and they aren't even in a state where they know what you have done for them. I remember cooking my husband a great dinner, he came home when he thought he would ( a rare thing ) and he literally fell asleep ten minutes into the dinner, right into the corn. This is not uncommon. The hours get better as you go up on the food chain but truthfully I didn't see improvement until my DH's third year and now his 5th clinical year is reasonable.

Having a family is challenging to say the least. I decided to stay home with my daughter because I wanted her to have one parent she could count on. There are weeks where my DH sees her once or twice for a couple of hours, and there are weeks where he does not see her at all. That is the reality. In my opinion, you guys have more challenging decisions ahead because the resident will be having the baby, not the spouse. Do you want your wife working 80 hours a week with no scheduled meals or bathroom breaks when she is eight months pregnant? One resident we know here in her third year of general surgery is going into the lab for two years after she delivers. She has no idea how they would manage if she didn't do this. Then after the baby is here, who takes care of him/her?

#2

To answer #2, I gave up my career to care for my daughter but was happy to do so given the work hours of my DH. I have no idea how you would make a long distance relationship with a resident work because the odds of her being able to return your phone calls are rare and vacations are usually assigned by a computer and in week blocks but this varies from program to program. There are NO days off other than assigned weeks by the program. No sick days (unless you are dying or a risk to your patients) and no personal days. Your girlfriend will miss weddings, funerals (unless one of her family members dies -- our program gives 48 hours for that) and anything else that is important during her residency.

There are rules in a surgical residency that are simply not up for discussion. Plus, your girlfriend being a woman in an area with mostly men, she is going to probably feel like she has to "be better" in order to "be equal." Just a guess but I've seen it happen over and over...

You hope your spouse matches locally, then you move with them when they don't. It's that simple.

I am sincerely not trying to sound negetive here. I actually just read my post over and was surprised how much I left out that is down right lousy. This is as positive as I can sound with the realities of the situation.

Bottom line: It's an incredibly difficult life. One you can't even fathom not being in it. Can it work? Of course but in large part it depends on how much YOU, the significant other, is willing to sacrifice because your girlfriend will not be a place to sacrifice much. She is committing herself to an incredible machine where once you are on, you can't really get off or slow it down.

Think HARD about the realities of this life before you make any big decisions. You will be #2 after her job on more occasions than will seem reasonable. Can you deal with that?

PrincessFiona wrote:
I know I'm being brutally honest here.....but I think that it is important to give you the answers that you are asking

I really appreciate that, Princess! Although a part of me would like the answers sugar-coated a bit, I know that I am better off hearing the whole truth and nothing but...

Fiona:
Surgery though (neurosurgery in particular) is indeed a pretty 'malignant' program.

Yes, I seem to keep reading that here...and my girlfriend has also "warned" me of what the road will look like ahead.

I feel like a wounded animal who has been nursed back to health, and am ready to be set free. In one sentence from her, I hear how much I mean to her, and how much she wants me in her life. In the next sentence, it feels through her tears like she is trying to set me free...for my own good, and precisely *because* she loves me.

Flynn wrote:
you have no idea what you are getting into. None. I'm sure you are a hearty person and have gone through things that are extremely difficult. We all have. However, being in love (and perhaps married) to a surgical resident will test what you think the word "challenging" means.

Gulp.

Flynn wrote:
Your girlfriend will see plenty of death, blood and awful situations (drug addicts, beaten children, etc.) during her rotations which will also wear on her. People who she is attached to will die and she will have to talk to the families. She will make mistakes, hopefully not life threatening ones, and beat herself up for weeks on end.

I've seen some of this already, and know that she can be harder on herself than anyone else is on her. That is another reason that I want to stick around...I honestly believe that she will need me through all this. Is that accurate thinking?

Flynn wrote:
There are weeks where my DH sees (our daughter) once or twice for a couple of hours, and there are weeks where he does not see her at all. That is the reality.

That sounds really sad. Especially to a romantic family man like me.

Flynn wrote:
Plus, your girlfriend being a woman in an area with mostly men, she is going to probably feel like she has to "be better" in order to "be equal." Just a guess but I've seen it happen over and over...

A very good guess! I'd say you nailed it. I would suspect that every one in this field is extremely driven, but I don't think I've ever encountered anyone with a drive like hers. Actually "better" still isn't good enough...the goal is "perfection". She understands and recognizes this tendency and tries to ensure balance in her life when possible, though.

You hope your spouse matches locally, then you move with them when they don't. It's that simple.

Simple! Wow, that's great. I love simple!

Luckily, in the technology field, it is fairly easy to find challenging work in just about any city in America. I could just start over with a new venture.

It's an incredibly difficult life. One you can't even fathom not being in it.

Gosh, when I posted I was hoping for a glimmer of hope. A small ray of sunshine coming out from the dark clouds.

Think HARD about the realities of this life before you make any big decisions. You will be #2 after her job on more occasions than will seem reasonable. Can you deal with that?

I *thought* so. I've never met anyone like her before, and I absolutely *love* the person...just not necessarily what she will be going through. I guess I still have to do a lot of thinking. I still kid myself and believe that we can weather anything because we are so good together...but then I really try to *listen* to you folks who have already been there...and it definitely makes me wonder.

I think that my biggest issue right now is that I've always been an incurable optimist, and I can see that this method of thinking isn't going to give me an accurate picture of the future at all.

Thanks for all of your help! I really, really appreciate it! At least my expectations are being set more and more realistically the more I know.

[SuzySunshine]

I have to pipe in here as a nerosurgery spouse myself, and probably even peds neurosurgery. My DH is starting his intern year in June at the Mayo Clinic in MN. Not ALL programs are malignant! My DH and I worked very hard to find a neurousurgery program that was good and that was also as family friendly as you can get in that specialization. We truly think we found that in the Mayo. Their system works like an apprentice system, each resident is responsible for one to two attendings' patients only. The only doctors that patient will see is the one resident or the one attending, not a gaggle of residents and attendings like most residency programs. At Mayo call is taken from home unless you are the one resident on-site call, that resident is in charge of all patients and pages the residents if something serious happens. Except for Saturday morning conference residents only work two weekends a month. Now don't get me wrong we realize his intern year and cheif resident years will be TERRIBLE as far as hours, sleep deprivation, etc. but we made our decision together based not only on what he saw while he was there and what he was told but what I was told by spouses. I sought out and spoke to at least one, if not more, spouse at each of his top three programs and I felt like they gave me an honest assessment of their feelings of the programs.

Sorry, I feel like I'm on a soap box, so I'll stop. Neurosurgery is very hard and it takes a special person to do it. It takes an even more special person to do it as a female b/c there are still some programs out there that are all men. If she is really thinking pediatric neurosurgery I urge you and her to look at programs that have great pediatric programs (one of the Harvard programs comes to mind) then a one year fellowship should be all that she needs after her seven years of residency.

As for my career, I have an MBA and have just started looking at positions in Rochester. We knew when we picked Rochester that pickings would be slim for me b/c there is really only 1 big company there and it is too far to commute to Minneapolis. However we also had to look at the big picture, I plan to stay home and take care of our kids in 3-4 years so my career was not as big of a part of the picture. I know that I'll find something I enjoy and hopefully with people I enjoy that will allow us to save some money over the next 3 years and allow me to stay home after that. Your case is definitely a little different but neurosurgery is VERY competitive and you almost have to just go with the flow.

I wish you all the luck, it sounds like you guys have a very strong relationship and I think that is what is important. If you're both willing to work at it you'll make it through anything, including one of the hardest residencies around.

Good luck!

[PrincessFiona]

Gosh, when I posted I was hoping for a glimmer of hope. A small ray of sunshine coming out from the dark clouds.

One small ray of sunshine is that you are not alone...there are other people who are going through this too and they are willing to be there to support you.....this is a great place to find other men and women to build a support network that you won't have to pick up and leave when you match somewhere else.

I'm sorry that we have all gotten so glummy...the truth is that the lifestyle is hard regardless of the specialty, but as cheri pointed out there are programs that are less malignant than others.....Your girlfriend will need your support and will there will be a lot more giving than receiving especially during the training years....It was very hard for me to modify the very romantic notion of family that I had when my husband and I first got married....I don't regret the choices that we made now though despite the hardships of training.


kris

[Flynn]

This has been a fascinating post to read and contribute to. Somewhat cathartic for me...

I think one of the most important issues here to keep in mind (from my perspective of course) is that as a spouse (or significant other) of a resident, you love the person to death (you have to or it would never work) but eventually come to the realization that the medical profession somewhat takes that person away from you through over work, type of work, or just being up to their eyes in responsibility (calling the hospital nine times a day on a day off to see if the guy they operated on the day before is alive or dead). Your life sometimes feels like an episode of ER rather than a normal existence. This gets old very quickly because you rarely have simply "family time." There are phone calls to be made, articles to read, and surgeries to review. It seems as if it's never ending.

You commit to the person you love, but what you don't realize is that along with his or her family, you also get this job that invades every aspect of your live. Does dedication and drive make a person more attractive? To some yes and it did for me. I loved that my DH was so driven, smart, and ambitious. What I didn't know then, was that this is not just a job or a career, it's a lifestyle. Now, I can't comment on life after training. We're not their yet but I dream of a reasonable call schedule and a 65 hour work week with some weekends off. That sounds like heaven to me now.

I married a man fresh out of med. school, very idealistic, noble, ready to work his butt off, and hoping I came along for the ride. He came from nothing and used his brain to get himself through college and med. school. He had little to no help from anyone but himself. I admire that a great deal. Further, I was also in the mind set of "I can handle anything" because I am tough and not shy about dealing with less than ideal issues. This "ride" of surgical residency has changed us -- not all for the better. I don't think we will truly understand the toll this has taken on our relationship until we are post training at least a couple of years. It's hard to watch the job kick your loved one in the butt time and time again and realize you can't do a whole lot to help, or fix it. I won't bore you but some of the stories I could tell you about my DH's R1 or R2 year seem like they should be against the law. The word that most comes to mind is "abused." (mentally, physically, and emotionally)

It's a crazy life for both people in the relationship because it's very difficult to find balance. Evn now, seven years into this "long ride" (and TWO more left) on weekends off we have to have some fun and also be a bit practical too... My DH gets one weekend off a month in this particular rotation which seems like such a GIFT from other rotations. It's hard not to go nuts, spend a lot of money and experience a let down on Monday when the crappy hours start back again. Like I said, it's a weird life. It feels constantly as if we are playing "catch up" in our personal lives when there is time to hang out as a family. I make lists of things we need to discuss because if I don't talk to him about these issues the next time he's home, we may not be able to talk about it for another 48 hours.

I think you are a very smart man to ask the spouses of residents what their experiences are/were. It always amazes me when I've had a tiring week how my DH thinks everything is great because he's done a bunch of challenging surgeries he's all jazzed about. We really have to work hard to be "dialed in" to each other's very different lives.

With all do respect to some other comments on this subject, I would venture to say that not everything said by people during the interviewing process is accurate or even honest. All surgical programs are not malignant, but the lifestyle is. I would venture to guess that a couple's ideals and thoughts about residency drastically changes after the first two years of actually experiencing it.

On a side note, optimism is a great tool. Learning to appreciate the little things in your day is a nice way to start. It sounds like you are doing your best to balance what you would like for your life with this woman, and what her job choice will put in your path. I hope you have 4 wheel drive!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kudos for checking out this site and asking the tough questions. If your life is with this woman, you will figure things out as you go and "settle" when you have to due to her job.

Good luck and thank you for allowing my to think back on what I thought "then" and what I "know now." It's been a bumpy ride and I have many bruises but I really can't imagine my life with another man so on I go...

Wow, thank you all so much for such great replies! I am very glad that I found you all. I hope that I will be able to give back as much as I am now receiving.

Then again...it sounds like you are all quite used to giving a LOT and receiving very LITTLE.

Cheri wrote:
Your case is definitely a little different but neurosurgery is VERY competitive and you almost have to just go with the flow.

I figured as much. It's nice to hear it confirmed, though.

Cheri wrote:
I wish you all the luck, it sounds like you guys have a very strong relationship and I think that is what is important.

Thanks Cheri! I appreciate that!

Princess Fiona wrote:
One small ray of sunshine is that you are not alone...there are other people who are going through this too and they are willing to be there to support you

True.

I am very glad that I found this site. Of course, I wouldn't have found it if I wasn't already searching for the answers to some of my questions...

The mere EXISTENCE of a support forum for spouses of doctors speaks volumes about what I am getting into...

Flynn wrote:
Somewhat cathartic for me...

Let it all out, Flynn! Tell it like it is. 8O

Flynn wrote:
This "ride" of surgical residency has changed us -- not all for the better.

Can you tell me more about that? How has surgical residency changed the two of you?

Flynn wrote:
some of the stories I could tell you about my DH's R1 or R2 year seem like they should be against the law. The word that most comes to mind is "abused." (mentally, physically, and emotionally)

"Abused". That sounds like the perfect word to use here. Is it just me, or does the training seem a bit counter-productive? I would think that people would learn and function better on sufficient sleep and life balance. At least I do.

Flynn wrote:
Good luck and thank you for allowing my to think back on what I thought "then" and what I "know now."

Please. It is I who is thankful that you are sharing your experience. I am 100% brand-new to this entire FIELD (I've been in the computer field my entire life), and I have no idea what to expect.

I am only beginning to unravel what may lie ahead...

I admit that I am more apprehensive today than I was yesterday...but I do need to hear this.

[Sheherezade]

Ok I couldn't stay out of this any longer. I have to say something positive because you seem like such a sweet guy. It is great that you are so supportive of your girlfriend's ambition. Everything that has been said about surgical residencies here is true; they are brutal. My experience has been somewhat different; DH went back to med school after we'd been married 5 years. He did OB/GYN for 4 years at JHU which used to be pretty malignant (until JHU got freaked out about the 80 hr work week regs and started following the rules). After that he did a gyn onc fellowship for 3 years that was pure surgery and more brutal than anything we'd experienced. Sadly, we got completely hosed by the 80 hr work week as the additional hours/work got kicked upstairs to the fellow and pushed his hours to over 120/wk with at home call every night for 2 years (that'll kill your social life ). But--enough about ME-----

I just have to say that I think my happiness issues came down to parenting/family time things when we had kids. Before that, I was as much of a workaholic as he was--often sleeping in my lab and happy as a lark. We were perfect together. Then we had the KIDS and that changed everything. My focus went to family, and he stayed a workaholic. I'm still happy, but it is different with kids. He cannot do family things and truly has gone weeks without seeing them at all on many occasions. In fact, both of my deliveries were induced around his call schedule and he got the weekend off. That's it. Single parenting is definately the rule---in fact people often think I AM a single parent and are shocked when they meet the hubby. I wonder what they say before they do!!! So I would consider carefully when you have kids, and remember that will change everything. Alternately, I know not 1 but 2 (!!) surgery attendings that had 4 (!!!!!!!) kids during residencies and fellowships and are doing just great. People bad mouth them, say stuff behind their back about not carrying their weight etc, taking time off for family (horror!). These women are tough as nails though, and it seems to roll off them so it can be done. Important caveat: both of there husbands seem pretty bitter and do most of the childcare. (I think sometimes its tougher for a guy to swallow the loss of career ambitions than women--but there are always exceptions )

So if you are having trouble with seeing my POSITIVE statements, I'll summarize. If you are both driven workaholic types, you might be just fine if you don't have kids for awhile. I personally fantasize about those days......OR It can be done with kids if you don't give a s**t what people say about you and fight for legally required maternity leaves--with you giving up a lot of flexibility to be the single parent.

Good luck what ever you decide!

Angie

As a male on the site with a DW (pediatrician) who is contemplating a life in Neonatology-three more years after the four we owe the Air Force....
I too am a hopeless romantic. Having a medical relationship has changed many of my views, romanticly speaking!

The biggest thing is what you have said in previous posts, you are in love and it seems to be a wonderful relationship with no limits....including the rigors of medicine.

Sure there are many who are unhappy with the daily routine of their spouses/significant others, myself included on occasion. But that can't be changed in most cases.
It is true that residency is hard on both people, and many times it sucks for the non-med spouse/other. But doesn't life suck sometimes? Then it generally gets better. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later. But better none the less.

When you add kids to the mix, that spins a whole new dimension and many more feelings/emotions/responsibilities(that whole adult thing!). Being a male, and a stay at home dad, with a spouse that will typically always make more money than I will is fine with me....society doesn't always think that is the case. It is a hard light to live in, but I can't very well say 'cool, you stay home and I will bust my a## working 80+ hours/week and when we are 75 we will have your student loans paid down by half'.
What you have done, by coming to this site and gotten TRUE feelings from spouses in a situation that you could be in, is GREAT. I only wish that I had found this site sooner. When you need to vent about "the Man holding your sweetheart down" this is the place to be....we all have those feelings, some will yell as loud as you in frustration, others will be shoulders to lean on, but this place is a great release.

Just wanted to add my two cents. A key factor is the relative "single-mindedness" of each partner career-wise. Would your girlfriend be miserable if she ended up in a specialty other than neurosurg? Would you be extremely unhappy if you ended up potentially out of work for a couple of years?

My husband and I have kind of an odd process - - each time he needs to match, I choose two to four states where I feel like I have career options. If he matches in those places, that is terrific. Otherwise, he has ranked second-choice (but still desirable to him) specialties in those places. Any other process would have left me without a job, family or friends nearby, etc. I was extremely reluctant to do that and he was extremely reluctant to put me in that position, especially since my husband would be happy in a number of specialties and would not be happy in any specialty if I was miserable (I am not one of the silent suffering types!). Now, he wants to pursue a fellowship and we are unfortunately limited to one city by the career I developed here (after moving once for him) and he is OK with that and feels like its time for him to compromise since I moved for both med school and residency. Overall, both of us are flexible within limits - - but neither of us is a neurosurgeon which certainly makes it more difficult. I don't know if your girlfriend would consider anything else as a "back up" such as gen surg. or neurology . . .

Overall, I do feel that medical spouses have to be self-protective. Even after 10 years with the same partner, I would be very reluctant to give up my financial independence because I have seen what happens to the non-working and not trained to work spouse in the 30-50% of marriages that end in divorce - - this is probably not an issue in your case at least financially but it may be an issue emotionally and socially. Notably, we never hear from these people on this web site as its devoted to medical partners so its easy to forget that side of things. It also bothers me that so frequently you have the distinct impression in "medical marriages" that its not reciprocal - - most MDs in highly competitive specialties simply would not make the same kinds of sacrifices that they routinely expect their spouses to make. Would your significant other move for you, give up her work, spend 7-8 years supporting you emotionally, and raise your children virtually alone if you had a passion equivalent to her neurosurgery interest? For plenty of medical spouses, they can live with the fact that the answer to this question is no. For me, it would drive me crazy - - quite frankly, I have always known that I had to come first with my husband, I could never have tolerated taking second place to his job (and I have never been convinced by the "calling/good of society" argument - - in a health care system as low-rated internationally, savagely unequal, and besmirched with greed its a stretch to call doctoring a calling).

I guess all relationships have their own rules. If you are asking us if it sucks to be a medical spouse, the answer is more than you can imagine. But, my hunch is that you are also trying to figure out what can you can live with, what the limits and "rules" are for the two of you as a couple.

Good luck to both of you!

I'm really late in jumping in here, but what a fascinating thread. You sound like such a nice guy, I *hope* things work out for you.

I have no experience with surgery--but about your career, think HARD about what you're willing to sacrifice. It's great that you're so flexible about it, but I can only imagine how much energy it takes to start over from scratch. I watched my boss become an entrepreneur by accident (we spun off from our parent company in a long and painful process) and when one thing after another went wrong, it really wore on him and his family. Fortunately, things turned around after a couple years because I don't know how much more of that he could have taken. Also, it will be a very long time before you'll be able to settle down in one place. Are you willing to take that long of a break before you can build a new venture? And, if you're thinking about having a family, are you willing to sacrifice your career to be the primary caregiver?

My bf matched locally for his residency, which is perfect for me... for now. We are almost positive that in 3 years he will be in another city. If things work out for us, I'll have to be willing to make that move and give up a job I love.

Finally, your gf is trying to give you an out because she loves you and doesn't want to hurt you. My bf does this sometimes (for reasons other than his medical career) and at times it's hard to understand that he's not trying to push me away.

I hope you continue posting here and letting us all know how things are going!

-Esther

[fluffhead]

The neurosurgery program here does not abide by the 80 hour workweek - they got some kind of deferral or something.

I told my wife when selecting residencies that I simply could not deal with any type of surgery residency. Being supportive is one thing, masochistic is totally another.

If you choose to continue your entrepeneurship during residency, don't expect to see each other. At all.

What is your timeframe? If she's a 4th year student, why is she starting residency in 2005? Is she taking a year off? (that would be a wonderful time to get married)
Anyway, this is not to discourage you from marrying this woman, or to quash her career aspirations, but you should go in with your eyes open, to avoid future resentment.