International Relocations...

[EvieLee]

Hello everyone,

Don't mean to be too serious and all on this section but I haven't got my 50 posts up yet for the private forum access.

Just wondering if anyone here has done the old international relocation to follow their aspiring/in training doctor spouse.

I'm experiencing a number of challenges and fears re: the planned move to the US early next year. Particularly leaving all my family 10,000 miles behind when DF will not be around much at all once residency hits (he's already hardly around now as a MSIII...yah for international relationships &#128521.

Anyway would really appreciate hearing from anyone who's moved to the US to 'follow' their spouse.

Thank you 😊

[Thirteen]

There are a few I believe, as well as ones who lived in the U.S. and trained elsewhere abroad.
(if I have tagged anyone incorrectly, I apologize!)
[MENTION=3361]Cinderella[/MENTION]
@Lamorna [MENTION=1139]MrsC[/MENTION]


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[rufflesanddots]

I have zero advice; that sounds really hard! I'm wondering if y'all should get an airline/travel credit card and use it exclusively so you can try to get home as much as possible? If you've already budgeted for the move, you could put everything on a travel card, pay it off, and conceivably have enough already for your first trip home.

One other thing I would mention is to just be very gentle with yourself. That kind of move is very hard, no matter how exciting it is or how happy you are to be with DH. I am 3,000 miles from my friends and family (though I could get home same day if I absolutely needed) and it's still hard. But the hardness doesn't mean it's the wrong decision or that it won't eventually be less hard.

[Cinderella]

Hi, I met my husband during his medical school years in Egypt. After he graduated there was the egyptian residency with him. Then the mandatory military duty in the egyptian army as a doctor of a medical point. Then we lived in Hurghada, a resort town on the red sea, where he worked in a private practice that serviced foreign tourists. Then we did the family based immigration to the US and went through that medical journey with the ECFMG and obtaining Step 1 and both parts of Step 2 and matching into an Internal Medicine program here.

During the first three years of our marriage we were mostly living apart with him in Egypt and I in the States while he finished residency and military duty and I flew back and forth. I can only relate a little to the relocation abroad when I lived in Egypt during the summer in Hurghada, but I always knew the plan was to get him to come to the US and do medicine here.

I can tell you what it's like from my perspective when he arrived here and the culture shock he went through and what it was like leaving his family. It's a good thing you're MSIII and have the prospects of the match ahead of you as fresh graduates too.

My husband didn't make his first trip back to his home country until four years after arriving here. They use Skype and facebook a lot to communicate and KallemMasr for rates on International phone calls on occasion. That's mostly for me when he's abroad and I'm here and I need to reach him or the family for emergencies.

@MissCrabette and @Momo were really helpful for me during our ECFMG process and match process.

[EvieLee]

Thank you ladies

Yes I have a credit card linked with frequent flyer rewards so everything goes on that in the bid to save up points for flights home. Once I'm with a US bank I will look for the same thing.

@Cinderalla the transition sounds very very challenging thank you for sharing your experiences with me.

I have been wondering if I should ask DF about doing his residency in Australia and settling here (he's in an IMG program between AUS and US). The plan was always for me to go to the U.S. but I think it's Worthwhile having another conversation about it.

Thankfully some of my friends and family are keen to visit and have the capacity to travel.

[Cinderella]

He should be fine and have a successful match in the States provided his Step scores are good and he has no failed attempts. There is a hierarchy for preferences among selecting IMGs. It begins with recent graduates of western affiliated medical schools such as Australia, and who are US citizens. You're at the top of the heap and in many cases treated like a USMG when it comes to interview offers and ranking depending on what specialty he's going for. So his medical journey here should be relatively smooth.

The only thing you may have difficulty with is the K1 visa process for the fiance visa here. Unless you plan on marrying in Australia and then moving here in which case you'd be filing for the CR-1 visa. I'm not certain on Australia's current processing time for those family based visas for you, but you may find more current and better information on an immigration website such as VisaJourney.com

I don't know how much you've looked into the visa process yet to come here but that website will help you understand everything and connect you with other Australians going through the immigration process. When we were going through immigration and doing the medical journey I thought that much of what we were going through was immigration related, or cultural, or the long distance relationship challenges and part of it was that.

After we began our medical journey Stateside however I began to realize that the other half of what I was experiencing was part of the medical journey, which never ends. I had no clue really. Even though he was always a doctor it never really hit me how the medical lifestyle factored into that until we did the process here and I found other medical families on here. So either way you decide to do it you're getting a double whammy with the immigration process and the medical lifestyle.

The only other person I know that could really relate to your particular situation is @MrsC who immigrated from Ireland to here. Otherwise I do recommend visiting an immigration website to find other Australians who immigrated here, and also visit this website for the medical side of things so you have two forms of support going for ya. The closest ones to walk you through the medical side of what you'll be doing are the IMG ones that were MS4 into the match such as the Caribbean or Ireland grads on here.

[MrsC]

Thanks Cinderella and Thirteen for tagging me. [MENTION=5042]EvieLee[/MENTION] I have done exactly what you're thinking of doing and have been here 10 years now! What can I say, it's my home now and I have one beautiful boy and another little one on the way. I love our life and have zero regrets! I'm actually in the process of applying for citizenship now, finally. It wasn't easy. It is a huge transition but I got there eventually.
There is so much I can tell you about the immigration process and any other questions you have! Feel free to PM (message) me.

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[Thirteen]

Thanks for responding, ladies! [MENTION=3361]Cinderella[/MENTION], it's good to "see" you!


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[Cinderella]

My pleasure. I like to help people, but I can only do what I can do.

@EvieLee one more thing I should mention about VisaJourney. I'll caution you that if you plan to spend much time on the immigration website do not mention you're engaged to a soon to be doctor and planning to following him to the States unless you're prepared to invoke the beast and contend with much jealousy from the other members. Keep it on the down low but get help for the immigration part. Use the website for what it's meant for.

If you're too open about yourself you may become a target for attack and they will tell you lots of negative things like you can't do it. When you defend yourself they'll put words in your mouth that you think you're better than them. That you have false hope and you're full of rainbows, unicorns, puppy dog kisses, kittens and white fluffy bunnies, ect, ect, ect. If that does occur ignore the garbage and keep believing in yourselves and your ability, because they don't really have a clue what you're going through nor what you're capable of. You don't need to invite the toxicity in. Some of them will become very interested in you, cyber stalk you, and possibly harass you for years and the immigration journey from first filing to obtaining US citizenship will take years. They'll follow you around online and harass you years after too or when ever you come back to help others.

I did refer two member like us here, but they haven't been on this site in a long time. @PrincessJasmine was married to a Syrian doctor whom she assisted immigrating here. They did the medical journey similar to how my husband and I did it post graduating medical school, residency, and private practice in his home country. He eventually matched and practiced medicine here. They've divorced in the last few years. @sctdixon was married to a Peruvian doctor who was high up in her field there. They lived in Peru together until she could immigrate here. They were doing the Steps in the States last we spoke, but I haven't been updated on their status since then on if they continued with attempting the match.

[EvieLee]

Thank you again, you ladies really are fabulous...just in case you didn't know that

Ok so @Cinderella and @MrsC, I am still learning so here is what I know so far...he is aiming for neurosurg, yes I realise that is another challenge in itself from what I can gather and that the match is a magical mystical unknown Anyway his step 1 score was 235, his curriculum grades are very good so far, and he is putting in many extra hours in the NSG OR, he had about 1,500 from Australia after his first 2 years here and he's kept it going and increased it for MS3 and plans to continue this of course. He is also involved in a lot of research projects for NSG, which he will need as I understand the average NSG applicant now has something phenomenal like 7-10 papers co-authored (man sometimes medical students and doctors make me feel sooooo lazy ). He is prepping for step 2. Anyway he tends to be one of these people who always thinks he should be doing more, even when there aren't anymore hours in the day, so fingers crossed and hard work and hopefully he will get his match. He is a US citizen graduating from an Aus IMG. Do you happen to know of how NSG treats Aus IMG US citizens? Also does it help that his IMG program is in partnership with a US teaching hospital or is that standard practice?

As for me I have the added joy of also transferring my Australian OT qualifications. Looooooong story short I have to complete US post-grad study (its an online program so thankfully I can do it from anywhere, I'm in the process of compiling the application), education equivalency checks and balances, and certification exams once approved. I have already sat my GRE-thank goodness that is out of the way. Because of my requirement to study I had been looking at an F1 student visa for the duration of my study (approx 2 years) and then transferring to a spouse visa after we married - however I am still very grey on the logistics of this and realise I would have to return to Aus for some time. The US fiance visa required us to be married on US soil within 90 days of landing and for personal reasons we had wanted to wait until DF was done with MS4. That being said we have started to reconsider the fiance visa as it might be the more stable option the two (if there is such a thing) we really want to apply for the 'best' option if that exists. I have felt a little swamped by it all and actually finding the OT path for me has been long and time consuming so I now need to go back to the visa process/options and educate myself a bit more. Thank you for the heads up on immigration networks. I shall be keeping our situation private, the process is challenging enough without this toxicity you speak of.

Finally, what do people recommend re: hiring a visa agent vs doing it all independently?

I look forward to one day being over there and starting to meet some of you when the opportunities arise

[MrsC]

I can't really speak to the med school side of things since we met in his final year, sorry.
In my experience, a good immigration lawyer is worth every penny. I would get a US one who knows the system. I can give you the information on the one I used (still am for naturalization) if you like.

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[corn poffi]

Don't know much about the international aspects, but I'm not sure his Step 1 score is high enough for NSG. I'd advise that he keeps his options open and decides on a backup plan.

[WolfpackWife]

[MENTION=5042]EvieLee[/MENTION], Charting Outcomes is a report that the NRMP releases every year with tons of match statistics. This may be of interest to you and your fiance (though I'm sure he's seen this or something like it by now) if you're wondering about IMGs matching, etc. into certain specialties.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploa...2014-Final.pdf

[Cinderella]

[MENTION=5042]EvieLee[/MENTION], Neurological Surgery starts on page 135. According to the charting outcomes for 2014 on page 136 his Step 1 is below the average. For the matched US Seniors is (244) and for the match Independent Applicants it's (240). He may wish to focus on he Step 2 score and bring it up a notch to make up the difference. It says the average for the matched applicant last year was US Senior (247) Independent Applicant (251). Not to freak you out but it says that even if he gets 20 interviews he has a less than 30% chance of matching as an IMG, but there were 9 IMGs matched last year with his Step 1 score range between 231 - 240.

He falls under Independent applicant and he's got a lot going for him when it comes to rank order list time at the end with his western affiliated medical school, fresh graduate status, and US citizenship.

Among the IMGs if his scores were 250s+ then no problem he'd be in the first wave of applicants on the first day out the door. Even 240s+ would be competitive as Step scores hold the keys to opening the doors. The way I saw it happen when we went through the match process a couple years ago those with 3 years or less out of school with the highest scores got the first wave of interviews and it didn't matter their immigration status or medical school in the beginning. Then it went down the line and expanded with the second wave being 240s, then 230s and some 220s as well as graduates with 5 years out. So for those with more than 5 years out they're going to want to get the highest Step scores possible for any consideration. With his Step score he might not be in the first wave of interview offers at some reach places but I'm pretty sure as a fresh graduate he'll still get interview offers. You'd have to know the places he's applying to and what their score requirements are to apply. Having a back up isn't a bad idea either. Most IMGs do have one.

It looks like he has more than enough research, presentations, publication papers according to the charting outcomes on page 143.

Neurology comes right after it on page 149 and their average matched Step 1 scores were: US Seniors (230) and Independent Applicants (226) and Step 2 scores US Seniors (241) Independent Applicants (232).

With 1 interview you're above a 40% chance of matching and with 9 interviews above a 90% chance of matching. Anyways you can look at the rest of it if that's what you meant by Neurology, but I think you meant NeuroSurg.

So back to the immigration stuff. You certainly have your options and it is possible to transfer your status here once you marry. Another friend of mine married an Egyptian doctor here in the States and he was on a B1 or B2 visa which is a business and pleasure visa and they were able to adjust status here without him leaving the country, which sounds like what MrsC did. However, if you go that route don't ever reveal your intent to immigrate to an officer at any point it has to be spontaneous. The three lawyers that told MrsC to go back and file for the K1 fiance visa were incorrect since she was already married here at that point. If she wasn't married yet then that would be the official formal way to do it. Otherwise they should have advised her to go back and file for a CR-1 visa which is for married couples. The lawyer that told her about adjusting status from a B1/B2 visa while staying here was also good, but it's risky too if immigration officer discovers you intended to immigrate here. Already there is documentation on this website that you're engaged and considering immigration options and if ever found by an IO it would become evidence.

I knew a married couple from Nepal that did the F1 route instead of the family based visa. It's easier when one of them is already here on an F1 and still had several years to adjust. I also knew a professor from my University that came on the F1 from France and fell in love with a professor from her department and married the USC and adjusted statues here without having to go abroad. So if you don't want to be apart during the K1 or CR-1 then the F1 might be the way to go.

Visa Journey is designed so that you can do the immigration process and all the paperwork yourselves without an attorney's help, but it might not be a bad idea to use MrsC attorney since that one seems experienced and good. We didn't use an attorney and I did all the paperwork myself. We married in Egypt and he came over after graduation. You'd have to do your research and look at the processing times for the different visas and also consider the cost so you'd know what is the most cost effective and timely route to take. Our immigration journey began in 2007 and we finished in 2013. A lot changed during that time and I haven't kept up with it since he naturalized.

There used to be this thing called direct consular filing (DCF) where a couple residing in the same country get married and file in that country for the non-USC to come to the US with the USC. The processing time for a visa was around a month and cost a lot less and this might be an option. To file for it the person petitioning for it has to be in the country for more than six months which if he's MS3 there I assume he's been there more than 6 months and you've known each other longer than that as well.

However, I know they changed that process some time in the past few years. People will tell you that they did away with DCF, but really they didn't. They just changed it to filing for a CR-1 like everyone else has to so you have to mail in the same material to the United States though one processing center. However, the difference is in your cover letter where you put that you'd like DCF processing as you're residing in Australia together for however long, and you married there, and are living together there as a married couple. You can explain as much as you want like he's a USC in medical school and when he anticipates matching in the US for residency. Then the USCIS will check everything out and bump your application way up the list for DCF and you'll interview at the Embassy in Australia.

I'd ask on VJ if there are any Australians that did DCF, or the new version of DCF, and how to go about that. They'll point you to the correct paperwork, costs and processing times. Or you could have him call the American Embassy in Australia and inquire about DCF and how to go about it but they may point you to USCIS or their website to look it up.

[MrsC]

[MENTION=5042]EvieLee[/MENTION], Neurological Surgery starts on page 135. According to the charting outcomes for 2014 on page 136 his Step 1 is below the average. For the matched US Seniors is (244) and for the match Independent Applicants it's (240). He may wish to focus on he Step 2 score and bring it up a notch to make up the difference. It says the average for the matched applicant last year was US Senior (247) Independent Applicant (251). Not to freak you out but it says that even if he gets 20 interviews he has a less than 30% chance of matching as an IMG, but there were 9 IMGs matched last year with his Step 1 score range between 231 - 240.

He falls under Independent applicant and he's got a lot going for him when it comes to rank order list time at the end with his western affiliated medical school, fresh graduate status, and US citizenship.

Among the IMGs if his scores were 250s+ then no problem he'd be in the first wave of applicants on the first day out the door. Even 240s+ would be competitive as Step scores hold the keys to opening the doors. The way I saw it happen when we went through the match process a couple years ago those with 3 years or less out of school with the highest scores got the first wave of interviews and it didn't matter their immigration status or medical school in the beginning. Then it went down the line and expanded with the second wave being 240s, then 230s and some 220s as well as graduates with 5 years out. So for those with more than 5 years out they're going to want to get the highest Step scores possible for any consideration. With his Step score he might not be in the first wave of interview offers at some reach places but I'm pretty sure as a fresh graduate he'll still get interview offers. You'd have to know the places he's applying to and what their score requirements are to apply. Having a back up isn't a bad idea either. Most IMGs do have one.

It looks like he has more than enough research, presentations, publication papers according to the charting outcomes on page 143.

Neurology comes right after it on page 149 and their average matched Step 1 scores were: US Seniors (230) and Independent Applicants (226) and Step 2 scores US Seniors (241) Independent Applicants (232).

With 1 interview you're above a 40% chance of matching and with 9 interviews above a 90% chance of matching. Anyways you can look at the rest of it if that's what you meant by Neurology, but I think you meant NeuroSurg.

So back to the immigration stuff. You certainly have your options and it is possible to transfer your status here once you marry. Another friend of mine married an Egyptian doctor here in the States and he was on a B1 or B2 visa which is a business and pleasure visa and they were able to adjust status here without him leaving the country, which sounds like what MrsC did. However, if you go that route don't ever reveal your intent to immigrate to an officer at any point it has to be spontaneous. The three lawyers that told MrsC to go back and file for the K1 fiance visa were incorrect since she was already married here at that point. If she wasn't married yet then that would be the official formal way to do it. Otherwise they should have advised her to go back and file for a CR-1 visa which is for married couples. The lawyer that told her about adjusting status from a B1/B2 visa while staying here was also good, but it's risky too if immigration officer discovers you intended to immigrate here. Already there is documentation on this website that you're engaged and considering immigration options and if ever found by an IO it would become evidence.

I knew a married couple from Nepal that did the F1 route instead of the family based visa. It's easier when one of them is already here on an F1 and still had several years to adjust. I also knew a professor from my University that came on the F1 from France and fell in love with a professor from her department and married the USC and adjusted statues here without having to go abroad. So if you don't want to be apart during the K1 or CR-1 then the F1 might be the way to go.

Visa Journey is designed so that you can do the immigration process and all the paperwork yourselves without an attorney's help, but it might not be a bad idea to use MrsC attorney since that one seems experienced and good. We didn't use an attorney and I did all the paperwork myself. We married in Egypt and he came over after graduation. You'd have to do your research and look at the processing times for the different visas and also consider the cost so you'd know what is the most cost effective and timely route to take. Our immigration journey began in 2007 and we finished in 2013. A lot changed during that time and I haven't kept up with it since he naturalized.

There used to be this thing called direct consular filing (DCF) where a couple residing in the same country get married and file in that country for the non-USC to come to the US with the USC. The processing time for a visa was around a month and cost a lot less and this might be an option. To file for it the person petitioning for it has to be in the country for more than six months which if he's MS3 there I assume he's been there more than 6 months and you've known each other longer than that as well.

However, I know they changed that process some time in the past few years. People will tell you that they did away with DCF, but really they didn't. They just changed it to filing for a CR-1 like everyone else has to so you have to mail in the same material to the United States though one processing center. However, the difference is in your cover letter where you put that you'd like DCF processing as you're residing in Australia together for however long, and you married there, and are living together there as a married couple. You can explain as much as you want like he's a USC in medical school and when he anticipates matching in the US for residency. Then the USCIS will check everything out and bump your application way up the list for DCF and you'll interview at the Embassy in Australia.

I'd ask on VJ if there are any Australians that did DCF, or the new version of DCF, and how to go about that. They'll point you to the correct paperwork, costs and processing times. Or you could have him call the American Embassy in Australia and inquire about DCF and how to go about it but they may point you to USCIS or their website to look it up.

I forgot to mention the whole intent thing in my post but you're correct, it is a big issue. I had no plans to immigrate when I came here as a tourist so like I said, the situation is different.

I guess my overall point was that it will probably be easier if you are already married and it pays to have a good lawyer on your side

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