Wondering how YOU feel...

OK- for all of you "been there, done that" spouses out there who are done with school and are either in training or post training, I have a question for you....Now that your SO has chosen their field, are you happy with what they have gone into or what would you have preferred they had chosen based on money, their time, happiness etc??? I am just curious about your personal thoughts on the lifestyle of different specialties.

[migirl]

We are entering third year of DH's urology residency, and I am highly satisfied with my husband's choice of specialty. The lifestyle was definitely part of the reason that he chose it, so we pretty much knew what to expect. Although it is a surgical subspecialty, it is much more laid-back and family-friendly than the general surgery program. He has home call, so I at least get to see him every day, and he has call only 5-6 times per month. I can't really complain about his hours either, since we get up and go to work at about the same time (yes, I'm an early bird) and he's usually home by 6-7pm (depending on the rotation). Sometimes I feel like we can hardly call it a surgical residency, because he has so much free time away from the hospital! It's just icing on the cake that he loves what he does and there is nothing else he would rather do.

[Flynn]

OMIGOSH that is such a loaded question!!!!!!

I have very mixed thoughts and my personal contentment with this "training" lifestyle varies from feeling pretty good about things currently, to about 3 to 6 months ago ready to shout from the highest hill that being a surgery resident's wife royally sucks adn I hate medicine. Despite those two extremes...I am not a crazy person, just someone who is ready to be done with training -- yesterday!!!!

My DH and I were not married when he chose his speciality but we were headed that way and I supported him 100%. I think we both have second thoughts NOW about surgery in general, but before the 80 hour work week was implemented, General surgery was one of the worst lifestyle choices you could make. It's right up there with Neurosurgery and some others depending on the program. So keep in mind I am a person who dealt with 4 clinical years of 85-120 hour work weeks. Now that isn't an option for new residents (if the program is worth its salt) so any new residents and their families have that going for them!!!

To say I have pretty bad feelings about the first 4 clinical years is an undertsatement but I won't bore you with the details.

I can say with complete certainty that having children changes everything and family time becomes something everyone wants more of. We did not want to wait until we were done with CT because I would be turning 36 at that time but having kids while training is a whole new stress we are dealing with now.

Anyway, I am making a short answer very long here...

Looking back neither of us had any idea what we were getting into with General Surgery. None. Until you have lived it, you don't get it. I am not positive that we would have taken a different path had we known how crappy the lifestyle is, but we both would have considered a more family friendly path in medicine. Life is not all about your job and your ambitions outside the home.

This life has taken its toll on every aspect of being married and having a family. Would we have made a different decision if we knew then what we know now? I'm not sure, but my suspicion is that we would have made different choices.

Money was never a biggie with us. It was all about my DH being challenged and doing something really hard everyday. I liked that my DH did something that was "a calling" and not just a way to make money. I see the entire medical field very differently now and it's not unreasonable to say I'm jaded.

We both hope this was all worth it and we have no way to know for two more years. Right now we are in a good place believe it or not from my answer thus far.

Choose your residency as carefully as you would any life and death decision. It's THAT important because divorce is not uncommon in certain areas of medicine.

Good luck! I wish I had had this resource 6 years ago!!!

[PrincessFiona]

A loud and resounding...YES. My husband chose a specialty that he enjoys and ended up choosing a post-training job that is more rural..less money and call, but more family time...It's funny now when I look back on the decision that we made 3 years ago to come here....we weighted the pros and cons like crazy..and now we're really satisfied with where he's at and how his career is fitting into our family life.

kris

You guys are so awesome for taking the time to answer me!!! I really appreciate it. I am loving to hear how you feel. I personally am about the family time outside of work. Lots to consider and think about. Keep the answers coming!

[HeartRN]

Definitely a tough question!! Let me preface by saying that my husband and I started dating when we were 19--We are now 32, so we've definitely endured this long winding road together.

My husband is a cardiology fellow simultaneously getting his PhD (sounds painful just typing it out!) Anyhow, he has basically known that he wanted to do cardiology from the beginning--even pre-med. I'm not sure where we will wind up after Virginia, but I do know he and I are happy with the choices he's made. Although his education has gone on for what seems at times to be eternity, I can finally see the light. By getting a PhD, he will not only be more marketable, but much more qualified to do what he really wants to do, which will involve research at some level. Money is really not a big concern with us, except that we hope to be comfortable enough to get into a house, have another child or two, and pay off the massive student loans we have accrued! I don't think we would have done much differently, but check with me in another couple years!!!! Hope this provides some insight! Good luck with everything.

[DCJenn]

What do I think about my husband's choice of career?

I'm happy that he has chosen pediatrics because he really does enjoy working with children. I'm not so thrilled with the neurology program (and I really hope there are some higher ups reading this...) because this program is a disaster compared to his residency. He has no idea from month-to-month what his call schedule will be, he has no idea exactly what he's supposed to be doing from month-to-month- they kind of make it up as they go along. There is NO organization AT ALL. The adult neuro guys resent the peds neuro guys, the peds neuro people at Children's are pissy with the military peds neuro people- there is no communication, period.

Now, I am admittedly anal-retentive and it annoys me beyond comprehension when adminsitrative bs takes over because I am a health care administrator and given a decent computer and a week of total cooperation- I coud get them organized. (never, ever will happen though)

My husband really does enjoy what he's doing but he doesn't enjoy the confusion in his program.

So, the bigger answer is: if you're stuck in a program that has management issues, it adds an entire layer of additional crap to deal with, beyond the actual 'doctor-at-work' issues.

Jenn

[SueC]

We haven't reached the finish line yet (one more till fellowship is complete!!!) but I have to say I am enjoying life a heckuva lot more this year than the last 2 years of fellowship and 4 years of residency. Reason being the first year of fellowship was intense and it sucked, this year hasn't been so bad. Residency just depended on the month, but my husband wasn't completely fulfilled and was just biding his time until he could get to his fellowship. He is so much happier in his specialty than he was on clinic months of residency so that makes a huge difference. I'm anxious to see how an attending spot changes things. I just realized you were asking not how our spouses feel, but we feel, but I guess how he felt played such a huge part in how the rest of the mood of the house was, and now that the training has lessened in intensity and he is happier, we are all happier. I am loving getting to see him more these days and he is a much more involved in our family life.
As far as the question of how happy I am with his career choice, I'd say for the most part I'm satisfied with the path he chose. There are times I think about how nice it would be if he hadn't done a fellowship and could have gone straight to an attending spot (mainly due to finances--if he had practiced in an underserved area in KS as a general practitioner his med school debt would have been forgiven!), but mostly I'm thrilled that he has found something that he is good at and that he loves. It does make the sacrifices we have all made seem worth it. We've been talking lately about my happines in my career (or lack thereof) and I was thrilled that he was interested in choosing an attending spot near a major university so that I could pursue a Master's in something that better suits me. It was nice to think that he was willing to give a little when it comes to my career as I have done for him. Overall, I'm really excited to see what next year holds for us, though I fully expect the first year out to be rough in regards to his schedule.

[Phoebe]

My DH is ending his first year out of training. It is hard to believe. I would absolutely say that he chose the right subspecialty. He is very happy with his job and the work he is doing. The things he finds unpleasant are job aspects he would find anywhere such as office politics and annoying people. If he would have stayed with straight pediatrics, he would have been miserable and I think our marriage would not have lasted. There were times during the residency and fellowship where he talked about getting out of medicine entirely.

The road was long and tenuous, but worth it. We worked hard to find a job that would make my husband happy and suit our family. What I find hard about his schedule now is that it changes every week. Sometimes he is around a lot which is great and other times he won't see the kids for a week straight. It is hard for me and the kids to get into a routine so I find it chaotic and overwhelming at times. However, I will take DH being around anytime over him never being home like in fellowship.

Jennifer

[houseelf]

Our family is finishing year four of what promises to be a looonnng training process. First, let me begin by saying, um, Flynn, are we living parallel lives.

On one hand, DH loves what he does (7 year general Surgery/research program with plans to do a two years peds. surg. fellowship). He saves lives, he excels at what he does, and his patients and families are extraordinarily grateful.

But honestly, the single biggest issue in our marriage, bar none: his career. In the past, we have had some hell-come-to-Jesus fights that get to the core level of our marriage on the issue of what his career choice does to our family, our marriage, our individual selves, our careers, our budget...you name it. I have spent an inordinate amount of time in our young married life and as a mom of a small child in a city which...um....is not my favorite... all by myself. We are in the lab years now, so life is grand and we do not take this time together for granted. This has been the best year of our marriage.

BUT... I start to hyperventilate when I think about going back to that life to finish two more clinical years. I *pray* that the 80 work week will make a difference. I would love to hear what other surg spouses say about the new 80 hour work week. I can't go back to 100 plus hours anymore. Really, I can't.

Both of us were cocky about our ability to accomplish a happy, balanced lifestyle while living far from family in an expensive, cold city while he worked a gazillion hours a week only to return home a chronically tired wreck. Yes, I'm sorry to say, this lifestyle has taken a toll.

But then again, not everyone goes for the decade long training route in one of the (arguably) more grueling specialities. I apologize for coming off as negative, but I can't pump sunshine your way in good conscience because both DH and I have said this is a damn hard way to go. We have contemplated switching programs to ones closer to family and switching specialties. Unfortunately, of the three people that we know who left a surg residency, they all came back to it and just prolonged the pain. It is like it gets in their blood.

Talk to me in another five years....the pain of clinicals is just too fresh. Perhaps it will be more like childbirth in which time will erase or diminish some of the harder edges of these times.

Long story short, we have both said that we would have choosen a different route in regards to his career choice now that we know what we know. Sorry for giving the negative response...

Kelly

[Flynn]

Kelly,

We have looked into changing residencies too from surgical to non-surgical but neither of us had the guts to "start over" when there was no way to know if DH would hate it or not.

I anticipate he would hate it and then where would we be? I am proud of him that he does something so difficult and important but I just HATE what it does to our personal life more often than not. Our daughter is still too young to realize how little Daddy is home but that will change soon enough and that will be really hard on me as well as him (and our daughter too!!!).

My hat is off to you Kelly. I am able to stay at home and my parents live two blocks away (who we all have an excellent relationship with!). It's good for me to read your stories and try and put myself in your shoes. I have support very close and only two more years to go!!

On an up note and to give you some hope, from personal experience I would have to say that I do think the 80 hours is a huge improvement. He is home now more often for sure but the kicker is whether he is home before our daughter goes to bed. More often than not he isn't which is hard, however, I get to see him a bunch more now than I did during his years 1-4 AND he is less brain dead and less crabby because he is able to have more sleep on average. He even has some weekends off in order to abide by the hour regulations! Weekends off??? Has the world GONE MAD????? It's not the lab by any stretch but it's better then it used to be!!!

Hang in there. I hope you guys match for your DH's fellowship in a city you like better!!! I am also lucky because there is so much to do here. I don't think "what can I do today" but rather, "what should I do!!


I admire your stamina and your pluck.
Our DH's are so #$%^ lucky!!!!!!

[houseelf]

Flynn,

Thanks so much. Sometimes I wonder what the heck is wrong with me. Why can't I just accept things the way that they are? I feel like I am the world's biggest whiner. The irony of course is that there ain't no amount of bellyaching that is going to change things. DH has his heart set on peds surg, believe me, we have been through counseling on this one. These are such deeply held beliefs for both of us.

The only thing that I can change is me. Anyway, it feels like everyone else copes better than I do. You give me hope that maybe it is not all in my head.

The truth of the matter I am older and a lot more cynical than I was in my mid-twenties. I wish that I could spin positively about everything but sometimes it just feel like b.s. because this is a really hard way to go. I tell people that any one day is not bad...it is the long haul day after day with no end in sight that gets me down.

Kelly

[Flynn]

Yeah, the day after day stuff really stinks!

You mentioned why you "just can't get used to it (the life and the hours)" and I think it has been hard for me because you can't "get used" to anything. Everything is in pencil -- nothing ever is for sure so there is nothing to "get used to" but the unpredictibility of this wacky life.

More specifically, you can't count on anything. Even when these guys are senior residents with home call which is really nice -- you can NEVER count on dinner as a family or an hour for mom both kid and husband free! It sucks the life out of you if you aren't feeling 110% -- forget about the idea that Mom/Wife might be tired, sad, feeling sick or just being moody.

If your DH is resigned to Peds surgery so be it, but I really hope he will be gracious enough to let you have a say in cities and programs. My DH always does, but I am surprised when I have talked to other spouses and it's been completely the docs choice!

On a semi-depressing/ funny note...I know a couple who just found out (a General Surg. couple) that the DH did not match in peds. surg. Granted, he wasn't the strongest candidate but he figured he'd match somewhere. Now they are looking for GS jobs and the wife couldn't be happier!

Well we've kind of side-tracked the initial subject here but this might be informational to the med. student spouses or SOs. I found it very interesting that the vast majority of spouses who are happy are NOT surgery spouses. We ARE in a good place now but in large part I think it's because my DH had an attitude adjustment about 6 months ago, AND we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

You'll get there too!!!!

[mommax3]

Well, I will hop in late on this one.....

I feel like we are in this weird twilight zone, though, because although DH finished his residency in 2001, he has been fulfilling his military committment since then and doesn't really feel like he has entered the "real world" yet.

Although I thought I would lose my mind many, many, many times during his OB/GYN residency (BEFORE the 80 hour work week went into effect, mind you!) I can honestly say that I am glad that he chose the specialty he did. He LOVES delivering babies and taking care of pregnant women, and he also LOVES doing gyn surgery. He is in a specialty that lets him do both primary care and surgery, and the patient population he works with is generally pretty healthy overall. The downside certainly exists, and middle of the night pages and missed dinners will always be a part of our picture, which I have been trying to come to terms with lately. Also, if it is a surgery day for him, or if he is on call and doing a delivery, it is all mommy all the time.......not much flexibility there, no matter what is happening on the home front. As he looks for a civilian position, he is hoping to find one that allows for family time and flexibility, and he may have actually found one.....but only time will tell.

Still, despite the drawbacks, he enjoys what he does (to the point that he will watch "Maternity Ward" on tv, even when he is "off") and is still pretty much the guy I married almost 14 years ago, even though during residency I wondered some days where that guy had gone. One thing I know for sure.....four years of that horrible lifestyle of hundred hour weeks (average) was all I could take.....the only thing that got me through the last year was the knowledge that it was the LAST year. I don't know how you surgery spouses do it......my hat is off to you.

Sally

My husband does Family Medicine and LOVES it. I think his favorite things are being able to have long-term relationships with his patients and deal with different things every day. It's not a big-money specialty like Rads or Cardio-Thoracic, and his hours vary depending on how many he's got in the hospital on any given week--but having a spouse who's happy with his place in the universe and who feels as though he's making a difference in people's lives is worth more than $$$. We're crazy about our small town life. One of his patients brings me farm-fresh eggs every week, and another is a woodworker who has made me a cutting board and several step stools for office and home. He wanted to be somewhere he was appreciated, and he found that.