are you kidding me? god I hate medicine.

[Amiens]

Flynn

I offer my upmost sympathy. I know when Matt was contemplating a year fellowship, I thought to myself- I can endure anything for one year if I have made it this far through medical school and residency.

Crystal

[Flynn]

Thanks you guys. You all are GREAT!!!!

We're still "debating" and I feel for DH too, he's not sure he has one more year left in him of training despite all the friendly advice we have received of doing "one more year to set you up for life." Yeah whatever.

I'll keep you posted.....

Will he be considered a fellow or a attending? I know that in a few situations, people who opt for more training are sort of quasi-fellow-attendings and that sometimes means a little better schedule and a little more pay.
I know you love where you live and the thought of moving must be disheartening.

[Flynn]

DH talked to a fellow there the other day at Pitt and you are considered a fellow, you (this isn't for sure) probably get paid as an R6 (HUH?) and you are very busy. The fellow did his CT training at NYU which is BRUTAL so he thought the hours at Pitt were fine....round at 5:30 and home usually by 8. A regular week is Monday thru Saturday. Again, he thought that was a "good" schedule!!! Also, you take call all the time but it's out of house so it depends on the day...

We might say "screw it" and NOT do the extra year no matter how many people say it's in our best interests. Then we would just be taking our chances out in the world in a year and a half.

My brain is about to explode so I must sign off...

R6??? That stinks!!!

If DH stayed in at the program where he did the research fellowship, they were going to bump him back to a PGY2 even though he really is a PGY4. The program here is paying him as PGY4. Part of what helped on this is that he talked directly to the GME office about it -- they worked it out. Also, the GME office at the last program helped him on salary too -- they tried to cut his pay by $1,000 to cover department shortfalls.

So, if you find yourself in that situation....GME might go to bat for you.

[houseelf]

Flynn,

I have thought long and hard about your dilemna since reading this thread. Is there any possibility that DH could work as a general surgeon and bag this CT stuff until something opened up? He is board certifiable in general surgery, no? I know what his response will be because I'm riding a similar train as you, just scheduled to arrive a little bit later. I'm not ragging on your DH because lord knows that I'm in love with my own little surgery maniac who has some pathological compulsion to extend training, but maybe it is time to look into all of the options, regardless of what preferred practice area may be.

I know working in General would be difficult because any good practice is going to ask:"Why are you doing this and when can we anticipate your leaving for the first CT job opening?". Still, there are generalist spots open everywhere. He can get a job AND you could probably stay where you're at.

Just a thought. May the whims of the gods of surgery be kind to you. Now back to trying to keep my train on track and avoid a major wreck.

Kelly

Flynn,

I am having a hard time understanding "one more year and you're set for life." If that is truly the case, then aren't many, many fellows going to do one more year such that most of you indeed won't be set for life. Plus, what if the market for CT/thor surgery just continues to worsen during his extra training. I tend to think that having successful practice and business skills will be more critical to job success than endless extra years - - but please take this with a grain of salt as I am certainly not familiar with your market.

On balance, I guess I am confused as to why you and dh don't wait, go on the job market and see if he indeed gets only "crappy" jobs - - it may be that he gets a great job, good job, decent job, whatever. If he doesn't why not consider the extra training AT THAT POINT IN TIME. Also, to what extent do you think CT fellows judging jobs as crappy might have to do with their expectations rather than reality - - that is, do these jobs just pay less than they expected or is it some truly horrible situation where they are working day and night in some remote location that nobody wants to live in?

Just for another perspective, I am not of the "that is too bad for you but of course you are going to suck up one more year," - - there is no way in holy hell I would agree to what you have been through so far, much less another year! So, hats off to you in general and good luck with the decision process.

[Flynn]

Ok -- here are some answers to your very good points posted recently. I'm not saying what I have to say is fact -- just our perspective and it is researched pretty well so....take it for what it's worth.



Since the market is VERY tight in cardiac, going from General surgery (getting a GS job then looking for the perfect Cardiac job) is not a good option. Why hire a guy you will essentially have to retrain and watch because he hasn't done Cardiac in a while when you can hire any other great candidate hungry for a job? Can it be done? Yes, but it's not a good alternative unless it's a last resort and you take the GS job thinking you might NEVER find a CT position now.

Since the market is very tight for cardiac Thorasic is going to become VERY competitive...hence the extra year.

Also, once you choose Cardiac or Thorasic you have chosen for life essentially UNLESS you can find a job with both. I'm not sure WHY exactly (other than the retrain thing) but these surgeons are VERY territorial about their speciality (can you say HIGH LEVEL OF TYPE A HERE???) even though the training is together. It's dumb and probably has happened once or twice in the grander scheme of things but "it isn't done."

The good news is that DH decided he couldn't do the extra year regardless of the payoff. He said it's stupid he might need an extra year, he's pissed about it, won't put his family through another year of training hell AND he just doesn't have it in him. There are other things in our life besides his career!!!!!!!!!!!!! We will take our chances in 14 months! Yippee!!!

[migirl]

The good news is that DH decided he couldn't do the extra year regardless of the payoff. He said it's stupid he might need an extra year, he's pissed about it, won't put his family through another year of training hell AND he just doesn't have it in him. There are other things in our life besides his career!!!!!!!!!!!!! We will take our chances in 14 months! Yippee!!!

Wow, that is good news!!! :ra: That's great that you've made that decision to move forward into the 'real world,' I hope everything goes well for you. You certainly deserve it!

Flynn -

That's fantastic. I assume you're experiencing the same frustration that I am that 4 years of med school and 8 years (6 in our case) of post-graduate training isn't considered "well-trained" enough.

You guys will find a great job - they are out there. Good luck.

Re: are you kidding me? god I hate medicine.

So my DH is in his first year of a two year CT fellowship. He is officially a PGY 8 with one more year to go.

Since the market for Cardiac surgeons is almost DEAD (no jobs anywhere) for a variety of reasons, we naturally have turned our heads towards Thorasic. The problem -- so is everybody else. So to avoid getting crappy job you need to distinguish yourself.

We are seriously considering MORE TRAINING after the two year CT fellowship. Give me strength. It would only be one more year but we would have to move more than likely.

The pros are that we would most likely get to choose where we live since DH would be in demand after the extra year of training. The cons are OBVIOUS.

I am so crabby right now it's not funny.

I hate surgery, I hate medicine and I hate all of our career choices!!!!!!!!!! ARRRRHG!!!!

DH is going to talk to a few more people and we are going to make a decision one way or another soon. It looks like for what DH wants to do, Pitsburg is where we should be. (Insert a BIG FAT SIGH here.)

Not to be inflammatory here...BUT..My advice to you would be to get a life. Stop living through your "DH." And what really gets me is that you have the audacity to feel irritated and annoyed at his decision to pursue additional training into a highly self selective field of medicine. The road to cardiac surgery is long and hard. If you wanted an easy life and more time with your DH...you've should've married a derm, ophtho, PMR, or path guy...

Nothing is stoping you starting your own career. Newsflash CA has a high standard of living...if you feel a crunch financially..go out and get a job...become self suficient and don't expect your DH to provide everything for you...

[mommax3]

Not to be inflammatory here

Really? Your first and only post on this website attacks another member and her choices, and you don't consider that to be inflammatory? I think you might find yourself in the minority here, my friend.

This place is all about SUPPORT. If you can't provide that, step away. I am betting that you didn't take the time to search through the archives to find anything out about the original poster....if you didn't, you have no right to criticize her or the choices she has made.

We are glad to have you here, as long as you understand that this is NOT the SDN.

Sally

Not to be inflammatory here

Really? Your first and only post on this website attacks another member and her choices, and you don't consider that to be inflammatory? I think you might find yourself in the minority here, my friend.

This place is all about SUPPORT. If you can't provide that, step away. I am betting that you didn't take the time to search through the archives to find anything out about the original poster....if you didn't, you have no right to criticize her or the choices she has made.

We are glad to have you here, as long as you understand that this is NOT the SDN.

Sally

I have researched the posts of the OP...she basicall has made the choice to be a SAHM...there is absolutely nothing wrong with that...IMHO, it is one of the toughest and often times most under appreciated job on the face of the earth...however, you picked it now be happy with the life decision that you made and stop complaining about it...If you don't like your present situation..change it and move on

[mommax3]

Well, if you have researched her posts, you know that she is not dealing with that particular dilemma anymore.

I have to reiterate, though, that medical spouses come here for SUPPORT. Not tough love or a kick in the pants, especially from someone they don't "know".

So jump in, start posting (an introduction would be great!) and let us get to know you.

Sally

[Rapunzel]

Military MD, perhaps you aren't married so you don't have a good understanding of what Flynn's emotional reaction was to her situation. So, in the interest of educating you a bit let me tell you the following:

It is normal to have bad days. It is normal to have bad weeks or months. During those times normal people may find themselves upset and/or angry about portions of their life that they do have to live with permanently. It is simply one way of coping with a situation that has become more difficult - similar in a way to when a person goes through the stages of the grief process. It doesn't mean they truly "hate" their situation forever - they hate aspects of the situation and they may dislike the entire thing temporarily. It's human nature.

For a further example: Anyone who has been a parent has days when they hate their job. Doesn't mean they hate their children. Doesn't mean they should not be parents. It means they are going through a rough spot and they are learning to deal with their negative emotions.

My husband who is a doctor and normally LOVES his job sometimes, well, gets negative. He has days when he will say he "hates" something about his job. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be a doctor. It means he is dealing with a difficult circumstance and has some negative emotions to work through.

Flynn, if I am not mistaken, is happy with her major decisions in her life. Because she is upset about a certain set of circumstances that she and her husband must deal with in no way means she needs to suddenly do a 180 on all the major aspects of her life. That is extremely unrealistic and a highly ineffective way of dealing with what is, after all, a normal part of human existance (ie dissappointment, anxiety, etc).

Perhaps you have not yet learned to grasp these concepts. Don't worry, one day you will....

Jennifer