60 hr workweek for residents?

DH's co-worker (a PGY4) mentioned the other night that the 80hr workweek will be dropped down to 60hr in a few years. I think he said it is supposed to be implemented in the next 3-4 years.
Has anyone heard anything about this? I can't find anything on it on the internet.

[Flynn]

I've never heard it even whispered out here and although I would be in complete support of it...financially I have no idea how the hospitals could afford to do this.

Out here it would mean more residents...that's the only way to make it work -- or more hours for the attendings and we know THAT won't happen

I hope it's true but I doubt it. Keep us informed though...

[Vanquisher]

I also have not heard a whisper about this. If at all possible, I hope it happens. Also, if there could be an independent watchdog, instead of the ACGME, I would be happy to see that as well.

Although I don't see how it could be done, I hope that it can. One thing that would help is extending the length of residency programs. They are already in a horribly long training hell, and I hate to think of it, but it's a feasible partial solution.

60 hours sounds so reasonable to me. I know my dh is working 60 hours just this weekend. I'd love the rest of the week off. HA! Anyway, where can I sign up?

[SuzySunshine]

Speaking from someone who's already in a 7 year residency if they make it any longer I will file for divorce! Seriously though, I doubt 60 hours will ever come, maybe for some specialties but not all. In my DH's specialty of neurosurgery they already complain that they don't get to do enough in 80 hours. His 80 hours pretty much consist of 5am-8pm M-F and then rounding on Saturdays unless he's working on the weekend then he gets a weekday off in there somewhere. I have to say that I can live with his hours the way they are easier than I'd have to live with him complaining if they cut them again.

His 80 hours pretty much consist of 5am-8pm M-F and then rounding on Saturdays unless he's working on the weekend then he gets a weekday off in there somewhere.

WOW! Does he really have such consistent workweeks all the time? I am shocked. I wish my DH had such consistent hours. He gets 1 weekend off a month and his hours are around 100hrs/week many times 30+ hour shifts at one time.

HLJ, that's a good point about an independant watchdog. I wonder how it would be possible to set one up....

[SuzySunshine]

My DH's program watches hours like a hawk unless you are the cheif. He doesn't consistently come home at 8 but on average those are his hours. Every other weekend he is "off", however they always carry their pagers here and are responsible for their own patients so there is only about one weekend a month that we could actually leave town if we wanted to. He does of course have some nights where he's on call overnight and stays at the hospital.

I guess my point is they can't make some programs longer, people would never sign up for them. Maybe some specialties can and should go to 60 hours but there are others that really shouldn't and can't.

If they make residency longer we will be in our 50's when DH gets out :!

[Vanquisher]

Believe me, I don't want residency being any longer, I just see it as a partial solution. Ortho is a 5-year residency, but there are already several programs that have gone to a 6-year. We didn't apply to any of those!

I would definitely rather do 6 years at 60 hours a week, than 5 at 80. By increasing the length of the program it brings in extra residents. I definitely don't see it as a solution in some programs.

I don't know if there is a solution. I just want to see my damn husband more often, I'm already fed up with this life, I hate his *$%#ing job, and I am not looking forward to 4-5 (fellowship?) more years of it. Especially since PGY-2 is supposed to be the hardest year, by far, in his program.

I don't understand why any normal/sane person would want to work 80 hours a week, and why they think 80 hours isn't so bad? We've done the 100+ hours too, and I have to say, we'd be rematching if it was like that week in and week out. My hats off to the women who have done it before me. I can't.

My family is over 2000 miles away from me. It is costing me over 1000 dollars (that I don't have) just to get "home" to see my sister's wedding this summer. I can't drop in on anyone, and I have no foundation for continuous support.

Okay this turned into a tirade/venting post, and I ended up in tears, so I think it's time to stop. F'ing residency!

[Flynn]

Heidi -- I have a story to share in the interest of fu*&^%$ residency!!!

DH was at a social engagement recently with attendings and their wives. Additionally, one of the wives there was married to a CT fellow who will be finishing training, and has a job starting July one. Most of the wives had been married to their spouses since med school or at least early on (R1 or R2 year). Depending on lab time, CT docs do 5 yrs GS, two to three lab years and two to three fellowship years. THe range of training then is 9-11 years approximately not counting med school.

So anyway, the fellow's wife (who has known and been married to her DH for less than five years and he was in the lab for two of those) was asking what each wife did to "celebrate this HUGE occasion?" She then went on a love fest of how hard her DH works, how much he reads and how in awe she is of him. ( :: )

Both attending wives independantly of each other said the best present they could have given their DH's at that point in their marriage was to NOT divorce them. They thought that training was THAT awful and if their DH's expected anything more they were delusional about how hard training was on everyone in the family. These are spouses who have not been in training for 7 and 14 years respectively.

The fellow's wife was shocked of course. She asked my DH about me since we are pretty good friends and he said basically I was pretty bitter, didn't really buy in to the whole "medicine is a noble profession" anymore, and wanted to be done YESTERDAY. My DH then went on to say that he was amused by the other wives' responses and thought that's pretty much how I feel at times. I don't think she (the woman who hasn't been "in training" very long) understands that being with your DH before the 80 hour work week AND for the early training years (where as an R1 and an R2 you are lower on the evolutionary scale than pond scum) is a tough go on a marriage. YA THINK?

My point? I feel your pain Heidi. I didn't have to do R1-R3 or the lab time with children. You are going through a whole level of CRAP I never had to deal with in our early years of training because if I was feeling blue back then I did nice things for myself and hung out with friends. A far cry from what you can do with kiddies in the mix. I get that now that I'm a mom. TRULY I do. Hang in there. Only a whack job would find this life easy. It's NOT JUST YOU!!!! Hearing the other wives basically say they almost got divorced in no uncertain terms (and now they are "ok" by their admission) helped me see (again) that training is just D@#$ hard.

The best part is DH told me this whole story so I guess it had an impact on him too. We're doing ok and we're doing REALLY well considering where we are in training. It can be done.

[houseelf]

Heidi--

I'm late to respond, but I wish I could reach out and hug you. You are so not alone.

Hang tough.

Kelly

[Vanquisher]

Thanks, Flynn, for the story. It is nice to know that there are others out there who feel like I do. I think that if I didn't have children, it would be much easier to have my own time and feel comfortable working and developing my own space within this framework. The fact that we do have children, and that our oldest is 7, and I have been a SAHM for all of that time, leaves me with very little connection to the outside world. I don't know what I would have done differently if we had it to do all over again, knowing what I know now, but things would definitely be different.

As far as the gift goes - NOT divorcing - I think it's an excellent one. In all honesty, I give gifts every day, and I think I am the one who deserves the milestone gifts of surviving these stages. Some people just do not understand, and I am sorry the one fellow's wife was so nauseating. I am looking forward to hearing from you on the other side to help me stick it out. You had better say it was worth it (or at least lie)!

[Vanquisher]

Thank you Kelly. It's nice to know that I am not alone, and that I have a place to rage/vent/cry about this horrible mess. I feel like I'm doing it a bit much though, and maybe I ought to at least try to be more positive, just so other people don't have to listen to me whine all the time.

I'll take the hugs.

[PrincessFiona]

Would it make you feel better to hear that during residency, the president of the auxiliary group when I got there was just like that.."I'm soooo proud to support my husband...it is an honor to be a doctor's wife. He works so hard to save people's lives..." I never heard her say a negative thing or complain about any aspect of the program or 'call'. She seemed to look down on the women who struggled. They were divorced by the end of residency. Seriously, that same year she just stopped showing up. After a couple of no-shows I asked where she was and was told she had gone back to live with her parents. Sometimes the way people present things on the outside doesn't represent reality.

kris

[SuzySunshine]

Heidi being in the intern year myself I feel for you, I'm sure once we have kids I will be more bitter, especially since finances will require that I continue to work. I agree with everyone that this is a great place to vent, find a friend that you can vent to in person as well, the two neurosurgery wives and I in our intern year get together for lunch every once in a while and vent to each other. It helps a little bit to see we're all going through the same things.

We are lucky that we are closer to our families then we were during medical schooll but we're still far enough away that they can't help regularly.

We'll all get through this and I think the not filing for divorce is a great gift to look forward to in 5-6 years.

[HeartRN]

Heidi...I'm a little late, but I hope you are doing ok. Hang in there. :ra: