question...

What's it like with your friends that were there before your husband's residency? I feel distant from them since my husband is now a doctor and pgy1. I really don't think it's me or that I've done anything I know I've moved out of state but some aren't keeping in touch and I sense don't want to hear about us and future stuff, etc. Any thoughts or experiences?

[DCJenn]

I found that although they care, they don't understand. My friend was complaining about how her husband has been working late and really grouchy and how she couldn't talk to him..etc. After sympathizing for a few weeks, I finally said, "welcome to my marriage, for the last five plus years."

She finally started to understand.

My family had to experience it first hand before they started to get it- like my husband being paged during family events (missing the events didn't seem to do much, it's like if he wasn't there they didn't deal with it) and him sleeping through dinner, etc.

It's tough because if you complain, so many toss out the "well, you'll be rich..." stuff which is 1) not helpful, 2) not true. They probably have no idea what the typical PGY-1's life is like.

So, welcome aboard and come here often. and once again, thanks Kris for having the insight that this was a place that was desperately needed!

Jenn

[SuzySunshine]

Mine is mixed but I have no doubts that my best friends from here on out will be other resident/doctors spouses, they just get it.

My best friend who I've known since I was 10 is fine. She sometimes make comments about all the money we're going to have some day and I know she doesn't mean anything by it but it can get old. My college friends knew both my DH and I before he was a medical student so they're all fine and several of them also married residents so they get it as well.

I think once we're out of residency and actually making a doctor's salary and have nice things then things might get strange with a few friends. But I think I already know who those will be.

Actually, all but 2 of my prior-to-attending-life friends are from before residency. The problems I found were from new people I would meet during residency. They expected something very different from us, and if they weren't in medicine then they weren't patient w/the lack of funds for babysitters, etc. because most of the people that were our age where we lived already had the money.

Now we've moved and are just starting to meet people. We live in a nice, but modest neighborhood and I think when people hear dh is a doctor they're just kind of shocked b/c he drives such a crappy car.

I agree...they don't get it so the relationships are different then they were. I have 4 sisters who's husbands will never make any money so I also have to tip toe around them sometimes, even though we're still broke, will be paying off student loans forever, owe the military a chunk of our lives & will have spent nearly 15 years in schooling! I tell people if they're interested in $ go to law school. Far less schooling for a much higher initial paycheck! Does any one else find there's a stereotype involved with being a docs wife? Whatever it is (perfectly groomed, nice cars, etc.) I don't fit it. I get surprised looks all the time when people hear what DH does.
Sara

[Amiens]

Of all of our friends who we had during medical school, we keep in touch via email and Christmas letters with 3 of them, and big surprise here- they are in the medical field- one is doing a MD/PhD, and the other two just started fellowships.

Most people don't understand. Now that we are done with residency, and at a point where we can settle down and carve out a life for ourselves, I am finding it a bit hard to find friends. I do not bring up that Matt is a physician unless asked specifically why he works at the hospital, simply to avoid the "Oh you must be rolling dough" judgement. It was refreshing today to hear a guy who came to do an estimate installing shelving for our garage say "Know that the estimate is good when you are ready. I understand that you need to discuss and make a decision. I don't know what your budget is, so take your time." This person knows Matt is a doctor, and yet did not pass judgement, it was nice. Anyway I digress.

I was going to say I would love to find people who are non-medical to have friendships with yet at the same time I feel drawn to people who are in the medical profession simply because they understand what we have been going through the last 8 years, and will continue to go through.

I say continue to keep in touch, and if it's not reciprocated, then maybe it's time to move on. Even out of medicine some times we just lose touch or outgrow friendships.

Crystal

[pstone]

Maybe it is because I am a guy, but my old friends don't seem to care one way or the other. I have not made any new friends mind you since we moved away to med-school and now on to residency and as SAHD not sure how that will go.

If people were to see us in the mall or grocery store they would NEVER think wife is a doctor. Running shorts and t-shirts or just nice comfortable clothes is our motto. Being in residency we still drive the same old cars but we both know that even after residency we will drive normal cars. We would rather live normally and retire way early.

oh, back to the friends....I wish I had some in my city.

[DCJenn]

Peter- you and Matt need to meet in the middle somewhere (disney?) for a SAHD convention!

(Fluff, we'll sponsor your trip!)

Jenn

[Vanquisher]

It's tough because if you complain, so many toss out the "well, you'll be rich..." stuff which is 1) not helpful, 2) not true. They probably have no idea what the typical PGY-1's life is like.

That is so true! I always get, "it will definitely be worth it....(wink, wink)." There are more things in life than money, and we have more debt than all of our friends combined. People just do not understand at all. I even find that some medical spouses don't understand at all. You know who I'm talking about. I think the degree of understanding comes when in the training you are married. Plus, if you have kids there is a whole other level there.

Oh sorry, I'm late for my pedicure and the cabana boy is at the door.

I got a whole lot of "it will all be worth it in the end" which just annoyed me to no end. People don't:

1. Realize how crappy resident's pay is (I mean, we just broke the $45K marker in PGY6!!)
2. How far away "the end" is. The best way I had to illustrate this follows: dh's cousin started KINDERGARTEN the year dh started college. The cousin is now a junior at Ohio State, and we're on dh's first REAL job.
3. How much debt we're talking. We have over $160K in med school debt (private school), that's w/o any undergrad loans and the IL's covering dh's living expenses during med school. That doesn't even touch our massive consumer debt b/c I was home w/the kids for 4 years that we really couldn't afford it. Sure we're making the $ now, but it's going right back out to pay for our previous lives.

[Vanquisher]

I got a whole lot of "it will all be worth it in the end" which just annoyed me to no end. People don't:

1. Realize how crappy resident's pay is (I mean, we just broke the $45K marker in PGY6!!)
2. How far away "the end" is. The best way I had to illustrate this follows: dh's cousin started KINDERGARTEN the year dh started college. The cousin is now a junior at Ohio State, and we're on dh's first REAL job.
3. How much debt we're talking. We have over $160K in med school debt (private school), that's w/o any undergrad loans and the IL's covering dh's living expenses during med school. That doesn't even touch our massive consumer debt b/c I was home w/the kids for 4 years that we really couldn't afford it. Sure we're making the $ now, but it's going right back out to pay for our previous lives.

Again, truer words were never spoken. We are trying to take out a loan right now to cover our consumer debt, but are having a hard time procuring one because a lot of companies have a $200K max student loan debt. Umm, we've well topped that. We just finished figuring out dh's net worth for one of the worksheets and you have a grand total of:

liabilities = $447K of which, $250K is just student loans, $35K in credit cards, and $162 in house

assets = $283K of which 167K is house and 90K is life insurance

net worth = -$164K

We're in it up to our eyeballs. It made me want to cry.

We have been married nine years. We have a seven year old. We will not be finished for another 4 -5 years! All of our friends have actually been working in their chosen careers for YEARS! It's no wonder our cars were born in the mid-nineties and I shop at Wal-Mart.

[pstone]

Oh my, I won't complain to much about our debt then....just the wife's student loans...which of course are right smack in in the 100-200k area.

We were talking two nights ago and there are only two reasons we are doing this crap anymore...

1.. Her loans
2.. Her earning potential

Again, not to buy nice things and live the high life...but so we can take long family vacations and retire earlier then most.

2. How far away "the end" is. The best way I had to illustrate this follows: dh's cousin started KINDERGARTEN the year dh started college. The cousin is now a junior at Ohio State, and we're on dh's first REAL job.

That's a good illustration!

I just love meeting people who have a parent, in-law, sibling, long-time friend, etc who is a physician because usually, they get it. I've met two people here where that was the case. When one told me her brother recently finished a fellowship training (and did med school after a banking career), what that was like for her SIL, etc -- I just wanted to hug her!

We just started MS1, so I have no clue what will happen with anyone.

My Richmond friends think we are brave and insane to be entering into this at our age LOL. They already were outdoing us for income/lifestyle, and no matter what happens, we will always be playing catch up.

My family on the other hand has always been under the impression that we were living the high life, even when we were living the starvng student lifestyle the first time. I think some of them are enjoying our not having our old standard of living as some sort of comuppance for actually having the nerve to move away and go to college in the first place.

[mommax3]

We have grown apart from most of the friends we had prior to med school, but I don't know if that is due to the "lifestyle" people perceive us to have, or just logisitcs/time, since it has been 12 years since DH started med school, and we have moved 4 times since then. Moving from Indiana to Texas was the death knell for a lot of relationships, which in hind-sight, probably weren't that deep anyway.

I have two best friends. One has been my friend since we were both teachers and newlyweds. Her brother is an OB (I nannied for him and his wife, a pediatrician, when DH was in med school) and one of her BILs is a doctor that did the military route. She totally gets it and it is refreshing to be with her.....it is one place where I feel like I can relax and totally be myself. She knew me before, during, and now after the whole training/military process, and we are still as close as ever. My other best friend I met in San Antonio while DH was a resident. Her husband was a family practitioner doing his Air Force payback. At that point in my life, it was so nice to have a friend who GOT IT about residency. They got out of the Air Force at the same time DH finished residency, and moved to Waco when we moved to Wichita Falls. We have stayed close since then (2001) but I think it will be more of a challenge now that we have moved back to Indiana because she is sort of a homebody. Still, having her as a friend during residency was really important to me.

So I guess in my experience, it has been a mixed bag. It is always easier (at least at this point in my life) to make friends with another medical spouse, because they get it, but I really appreciate my friendships with non-medical people, too, because they allow us to just be ourselves, and there is RARELY any shop talk when we get together!

I would give it some time if I were you. True friends will endure!

Sally