Bi-racial and bi-religious couples

[Tenacious_D]

Ok, I am getting a little more serious with my questions now. I am not sure if this should be in another section but here goes:
How many of you are involved in either bi-racial or bi-religious/cultural relationships. I am black and my husband is Jewish. Everyone keeps asking how we are going to raise our kids (I'm Catholic and my mom is quite religious). I am not sure what we are going to do. I feel like saying "We are just going to love them and that's all that matters." I don't know what to expect when we have kids. I imagine our kids will enjoy getting lots of gifts around Christmas and Hanukkah. But besides that what can I do to prepare them for the types of questions I as an adult don't know how to deal with. Any thoughts?

[Vanquisher]

We are not bi-racial or bi-religious. I do think that race and religion are two very important parts of how people define themselves.

I know a fair amount of couples, however, who are different races and/or religions. I knew a couple that broke up soley over this very issue. He was Mormon and she was Orthodox Jewish. Both of their religious ideals, codes, and philosophies were extremely important to them, and they could not find a way to work around it when you threw the thought of kids into the equation.

For couples that I know where it has worked they have no children, choose to ignore religion largely in their house and bring up their children with no religion, or embrace both faiths.

Each of these things can be confusing to a child, but that doesn't mean they aren't the right way to go or can't work. As long as you and your husband agree on how you will raise your children, then it should be fine. Where it gets bad is when you beleive your way is the right way, and he believes his is and neither are willing to budge. If you approach it with a uniform direction then your children can grow up with an understanding and love of both faiths and choose for themselves. There isn't a reason, as far as I can see that you can't enjoy Passover and Easter, Christmas and Channukuh. Have a Christmakuh! That doesn't mean that there won't be bumps, but you can get through it. Explain to your kids that people believe all kinds of things, and that when they are older they can decide for themselves what they choose to believe. Here is what Mom believes, and here is what Dad believes. But, you both respect and admire the other parent's beliefs.

As far as other people's opinions, well, they just don't matter. You need to do what is right for your family.

As far as the race issue, I don't think it needs to be an issue at all. As long as your children are in a safe, loving home, they will feel secure with who they are no matter how ignorant people in the world may see them. There are plenty of good people too.

[Auspicious]

For the religion question, I would say that whatever your answer is, the more confidence you have in delivering it, the less people will bug you about it. (At least at the acquaintance level--only you will know how to handle your mom.) I would say pick an answer and just state it like fact.

"They'll be raised Catholic but also exposed to Jewish traditions."
"They'll celebrate both and decide when they're older."
"We're planning to just keep doing what we do now and when we have kids we'll bring them along."

Whatever your case may be.

My husband's brother is an atheist/agnostic and his wife is Jewish. I've asked her what their plans are for raising their kids* and have been more confused at the end of the conversation than at the beginning. And I don't care what her answer is, even if it's "We don't know" or "None of your business" but I wish she would just say it. After about three conversations I finally sussed out that it's important to her that her kids feel comfortable going to her parents' house for passover and that they know what's going on when they go to temple and that they will go to Hebrew school, but that they aren't planning to dictate any beliefs to their kids. (She's pretty agnostic herself.) I think she could save herself a lot of grief by having a one-sentence or one-paragraph answer to the question and delivering it with finality. It's not like people are going to hold her to it. (Although I think when it comes to her dealing with her parents a more complicated and in-depth conversation is called for.)

*I swear I don't go around browbeating people about their religious plans! This topic comes up a lot in our discussions while hanging out with BIL and his wife because it's been a big source of conflict with her family.

[Rapunzel]

My husband comes from a biracial marriage. It was quite successful and produced 8 children. In my in-law's experience the ethnic and genetic differences didn't impede at all. The only regret my Mexican mil has is that she did not teach her children her language in addition to their father's English. I think if you have two strong cultural heritages in a family it's wise to teach both to your children. My husband greatly loves and appreciates the Mexican heritage he has as well as his Scottish/Swedish heritage.

As far as religious differences: If one or both individuals is very strong in their religious faith then that can be a problem for the relationship. In my observations even marriages of the same religious beliefs can have problems if one spouse is MORE religious than the other. It's a hard thing to be unequally yoked in that matter. I don't have any advice to give on how to make it work except what Heidi mentioned: It seems to work for two individuals who are both not really that "into" their respective religions. At least, that seems to be the case in the marriages I've witnessed as an outsider.

Edited to add: My husband's parents, while in a biracial marriage, were still both very religious people with the same religious beliefs. I think that religious compatibility seems to mean more than differences in culture or skin-tone.

Good luck!

Jennifer

[Tenacious_D]

My husband and I aren't really religious at all. There are people in our families who care far more about religion than we do. We also had some folks who weren't so excited about the race thing but when they realized we were really in love and getting married they supported us. My biggest fear is that my mother is going to want to have her grandchildren baptized and I am not sure what I think about that. Since neither of us are really religious, I can't see my husband or I pushing our kids into any religion but I would like them to know what both religions are all about. I still haven't discussed this with my mom. I hoping that she doesn't pressure us too much either way. Oh well, so much to think about and I am not even pregnant!

My husband and I aren't really religious at all.

I think there is your key right there. The way you determine how you raise your children is what is important to YOU - not others in the family.

I am white and my husband in Indian (Hindu). Neither of us are religious, either. We plan to expose our kids to the culture of hinduism (which is basically the religion), and the traditions of my family (which are the Christian traditions), as well as the cultures of many other religions and ethnicities. Our kids can decide for themselves when they get older.

[Vishenka69]

While we're not bi-racial or bi-religious and don't have any children, some of our friends are both and have kids. The bi-racial couple has two beautiful boys who are being raised Methodist (I think) but both parents are Christian. The bi-religious couple aren't very religious and while their son was circumsized, I don't think they'll go further than that (no bar-mitzvah, etc.).

Even though we're both Jewish, we still get into heated arguments over our non-existant and very hypothetical children. I'm atheist/agnostic and DH would like to bring kids up in a shul/synagague (with Hebrew school and the whole nine yards). While I'm not against our non-existant, very hypothetical children learning about their heritage, I don't see the need to participate in organized religion and attending services. Some may say that all of this needs to be decided before even TTC but I think a lot of these decisions can be made along the way.

As far as the baptizing, etc. goes - I say you need to find a happy medium with which you feel comfortable. I allowed my IL's to do a ceremony w/the babies that asks the Gods for their blessing of the child. It means nothing to me, lots to my IL's and I see nothing wrong in asking God (anyone's God) to bless my child. As far as blessings go - the more the better in my book!

I have an LDS friend who had never tried to share her religion with me, which I thought odd since I know it is an important facet of their religion to share it with as many people as possible. I asked her once why she and her husband never tried with me, and she told me that they knew I wouldn't be interested, but they planned to do something where my soul could be saved after I died (our LDS members can correct the accuracy of this -- I'm going on what I was told by one person). Some people I told this to thought I should be offended, as in "how dare they" - but I wasn't. I figured if they are right - then I'll be covered!

As a child (in the 50's) my mother was Catholic. This was when they were taught that Catholicism is the one, true faith and all others would go to hell. My mom used to babysit a lot of Jewish children, and loved them dearly and was sickend at the idea of them going to hell because their parents were Jewish. Apparently the Catholic faith allows regular folks to baptize people in emergency situations, so as a young girl (12 or 13) my mom "baptized" all of the little Jewish kids she babysat to "save" them. Their parents never knew of course, and it was all done because she loved the kids.

I choose not to believe in a God that would banish one group of people based on their choice of a specific way to worship or acknowledge him or her, which is why I don't feel that choosing a particular religion is important for me (or my family). I like to select phrases or beliefs or even objects of various faiths that represent my belief system. We have a Hindu god in our house (Ganesh, if you're interested), and I have a Jewish mezzuzah (sp?) to bless my home. I do believe in God, and will share that with my kids, but I don't feel that I need a religion to instruct me how to do it.

DISCLAIMER:

No offense intended to anyone of any particular faith here -- I'm only sharing my experiences and why I've made cetain choices. Not intending to belittle or judge any religion, and please remember that my LDS story is the interpretation of one member, and my Catholic story is something that happened 50 years ago. I know the churches change and evolve.

My entire experience with mixed faith families comes from my friends at a Unitarian Universalist church. For some of my friends it was a compromise. The child dedication service they have substitutes for Christening and Bris, basically the congregation promises to help the kid find their own path. And grandma gets to take pix of baby in the heirloom christening gown. Since UUs have personal religious philosophies, its perfectly fine to mix em up. Those folks were usually not very religious in the standard sense. You get a lot of "that's not a real religion" though, so its not an easy compromise.

I went to school with a number of kids whose parents were different denominations of Christianity, and in most cases, the kids went to whichever church the more devout parent went to.

I've heard about newer Humanist Jewish congregations, that stress tradition more than faith/belief/observance. And there are some pretty liberal Catholic churches out there.

I have no real advise for the bi-racial relationships. I guess it depends on the individual families and communities involved. But, a repoet last year on NPR said that there are more and more kids of mixed racial heritage, so its hopefully becoming a non-issue.

[Rapunzel]

Jenn, you were pretty accurate in describing how our belief in proxy baptisms and temple covenants would be viewed by a non-member. No offense taken at all! (But, I should add we believe everyone is saved - ie everyone receives salvation and we don't have the Catholic/Protestant concept of "going to hell" because we believe pretty much everyone born will attain a level of heaven. The temple ordinance work is for exaltation - determining if you will be able to continue your journey of growth after death and resurrection). And, yes, there are groups of people who profess to be highly offended by this. But, if we're wrong then who cares - and, if we're right then you're "covered"!

Jennifer

[Meenah]

I was raised Catholic in Mississippi in the 60s and my husband is New York Jewish. Neither one of us is very religious. We celebrate both holidays, but not very religiously. It is a second marriage, and we each have two children. None of them were brought up in any faith. My daughter went to a Quaker Prepschool and she still goes to "meaningful worship" on Sundays. My second daughter goes to the snowboard slopes on Sundays (she is in college in Colorado). It is all about how you as parents handle it. It is best to not let wel meaning friends and family undermine what you want for your kids. If it is something not offensive to you but meaningful to them then I say OK (as J3qpatel said). I personally don't think race should be a problem.
Luanne

[alison]

I'm Japanese American (I'm full--both my parents are Japanese). Dark hair, dark eyes, 5'1" feet tall. My husband is from Germany. Fair-skinned, blue-eyes, blonde hair, 6'3". The whole bit. Yes, like Arnold Schwarzenneggar and Danny Devito in TWINS!

Race nor religion is an issue, just how odd we must look together!

[SueC]

We're biracial. I'm white, he's Filipino. The race thing hasn't really been an issue, except that people often assume our kids are adopted. (They always see me with these "Asian inspired" kids, without my dh and naturally assume we adopted them).
Religion could be an issue as my dh is technically Catholic and I'm Episcopalian. Since I'm the more devout between the two of us, he defers to my judgment regarding baptism, religious teachings. Sometimes I overhear him telling people he is an Episcopalian, which I find to be funny since I'm not even sure he *really* believes in God. I have really relied on my faith over the years, and so I feel pretty strongly about giving them something to believe in.
Rapunzel, my religious beliefs seem to kind of parallel yours if I'm interpreting what you said correctly--my church has never professed the elitist attitude that everybody else is wrong and therefore going to Hell. I've always been taught that how you are as a person is what will determine your salvation and not which denomination (or lack thereof)you chose or grew up in.

[Rapunzel]

Well, to clarify what we believe:

Salvation is a free gift given to all through the atonement of Jesus Christ. We believe in both a spiritual and physical death. Physical death is the seperation of the body from the spirit. And spiritual death is the seperation of our spirits from our Heavenly Father (ie when we are born and enter mortality). We believe Christ conquered both deaths and that, as a result, all will be resurrected physically and all have the path cleared to enter into a kingdom of heaven.

Now, exaltation is the ability to grow after resurrection and judgement. While we believe that everyone will enter a kingdom of heaven only those in the Celestial kingdom who have fulfilled certain requirements will be able to enter back into God's literal presence. We believe that certain covenants (ie two-way promises with Heavenly Father) must be made AND kept in mortality in order to attain that degree of glory. And, we believe that only those who can enter again into God's presence will be able to continue in their growth to ultimate perfection.

So, these proxy covenants we perform in our temples for those who have previously died are to give everyone who has ever been born on the earth the opportunity to enter back into God's presence. We believe that missionary work continues beyond the grave so that everyone will have the opportunity to accept these truthful teachings either in this life or in the next (we believe in a just God who loves ALL of His children equally). A person who has passed away has the choice as to whether they will accept these covenants performed in the flesh by another on their behalf. Freedom of choice in this life extends beyond the grave.

I've got to go take my husband to work now.

Jennifer

Danielle,

Your question is timely for us. We are now both Jewish, having started out Unitarian and Jewish but our religious beliefs come from our life experiences. We both have serious doubts about the validity of many religious beliefs because of the various unfortunacies (is that a word?) that have been and are being wrought in the world in religions' name, but have tried to wisely accumulate and understand the broader ranges of human purpose.

However, try telling that to a 9 and 5 year old. We are facing an interesting situation now. Our 5 year old has been completely inundated with Christian symbolism and belief at her school (which is secular) and she is the only Jewish child. We decided a while ago to concentrate on the Jewish framework so far as to give the girls some grid or structure on which to hang their hats. That is, doing a good deed for what purpose? Can we have a rich custom life, with music and lights and dancing etc? We both love Jewish tradition but disagree with some of the ancient attitudes.

But, back to the kid. She now feels very deeply that we are very unfortunate to be Jewish since Christmas gets so much attention and Hanukkah is unknown. To her, we are obviously doing something wrong by not being like everyone else. Today she was playing Baby Jesus and wondering if wise men would come and bring her gifts and if angels would come and sing to HER since they came to baby Jesus.

We have been handling this by first telling her the story of both occasions, since they are very different celebrations that happen to both have adopted the pagan timing of the Winter's solstice. One is not in place of the other. We tell her about the great people of history, who have been members of many different beliefs and religions and finally, we try to bring her into the richness that we feel with many of the Jewish ceremonies and customs. Also, I visited her class and did a two-day project time on Hanukkah, D'walli and Kwanzaa, just to give the kids some idea of other cultures and ways. I have to tell myself she is only 5 after all, and like my husband, and myself she may later choose a decidedly different path.

Our 9 year old, the crusader for social justice, has a whole different take on the whole thing and has decided to be proud to be Jewish, I think mainly because she is the only one in her school as well. She also fell in love with the music of the synagogue and ceremonies very early on and loves the atmosphere in the synagogue and the emphasis on learning. To her it is something a little mysterious and asks for further study.

Customary religious preference is so prevalent in American society that the question of how-to is really complex if there is any deviation from a single belief family. (IMHO) It is really a can-'o'-worms question!