Who pays?

[DCJenn]

I think the key is the sense of entitlement. I don't think that children should ever think that they are 'owed' things by their parents. (just read some of the advice columns to get a load of some of that)

Providing gifts or classes or experiences because you can and you want to is way different than you kids EXPECTING you to pay. (the Paris Hiltons of the world) My dad was a keynote speaker at two conferences my senior year of high school- one was in London and the following week it was Paris. The group paid for my mom to go and for our Chirstmas present that year my parents gave us the opportunity to go with them. We were expecting to go? Nope. But I'm so thankful that they were able to take us with them. It was truly a once in a lifetime trip. Had we expected to go or demanded to go or expected them to cover all of our spending money, etc- now that would have been ridiculous.

I think healthy kids understand the difference between gifts from the heart and gifts with ulterior motives.

Jenn

and my husband's first overseas trip (other than Panama and Haiti on our tax dollars w/rifle in hand) was to my friends wedding in Italy.

Spoiling adult children is paying their cable bill while they spend money on days at the spa or bags of stuff at Saks, not grabbing the check at Perkins, paying for some textbooks or buying plane ticket so the kids can afford to come home once a year without going into debt for it.

I agree totally.

When growing up, my parents were not anywhere near well-off. They qualified for welfare. My mom made what clothes we needed that we didn't get second hand from cousins. My grandparents would buy food for us at the very low points, and so on. DH grew up in much of the same situation. Now, both of our parents are much much better off and they like to help out where they can. And that doesn't mean paying our rent or making our car payments. Now it means picking up the bill when we go out for dinner or giving us their old furniture when they buy new stuff, but in the past it was gift certificates to grocery stores. DH and I have gone through times where our kitchen was empty and we literally did not have money to buy food. Our parents have gone through times like that and their parents helped them, just like they have helped us. If our kids ever go through a time like that, you can bet we will be there to help them out as well.

[Vishenka69]

Where do you draw the line between just making your adult children happy and spoiling them when it comes to paying for luxuries?

I don't think that groceries or USMLE fees or interview expenses are luxuries. Our parents didn't shower us with furs and diamonds but helped out with some basic expenses. Neither one of us comes from money. Being first generation immigrants we (and our parents) had to work very hard for everything we have. We both went to college on scholarships and loans because we knew that our parents can't afford to put us through good schools. We definitely don't take their help for granted and are planning on helping them out once they retire.

Part of the reason why our parents were able to help us as much as they did was because I'm an only child and DH has only one brother. If both sets of parents had multiple children to take care of, they would't be able to give each as much as we received. So it was definitely a concience choice to only have one or two children and give them as much as possible.

[Malpka]

No well-to-do families here, at least not until lately. When DH was 13 his family escaped communist Poland with just the contents of 2 suitcases. His parents, sister, grandparents and himself lived in a two bedroom apartment after moving here for years. When his Dad passed his foreign medical test and was able to start a residency(all over again after being a ped for over 10 years), that income supported the entire family along with part-time jobs my MIL would sometimes have. His Dad finally started practice about the time my DH was in college (full scholarship) and of course they are now in a much improved financial situation.

So, if when they visit they want to take us out to dinner, or stock up on diapers, why not? They know we will do the same for them when we are in a better place financially. They have also paid for some of DH's board tests and interview expenses. It gives them pleasure to use the fruits of their labors to help their children aceive their goals. It is not like they are paying for spa days, KWIM?

My parents are pretty solidly middle class, and they also pick up the tab quite a bit and occasionally buy us plane tickets. My mother was an orphan, and my Dad was the product of an extremely abusive home. They both worked hard at their careers, and waited to have my sister and I until they could afford to give us the basics, plus a few of the niceities like lessons and birthday parties. I don't think I am any less greatful or appreciative for having those things.

[houseelf]

Dad is a farmer who occasionally drives trucks to make ends meet. He lives hand to mouth. His mother, my grandmother, saved his ass time and time again and enabled him to live beyond his means. I hate to critique, but he is a poor money manager.

Mom was a telephone operator and now works as a customer service representative at Victoria's Secret. She remarried a frugal man with no kids who loves us like his own. She could retire and live off her pension and her husbands' assets but prefers to work. These last few years are the first time in her life that her bills are paid in full and there is cash in the bank.

We were solidly middle class but had privileges beyond most: love, opportunity, and parental commitment and resourcefulness. However, I don't begrudge anyone who knew more money. In fact, one of our closest med school friends always had to prove that he was in medical school on his own merit and not Daddy's orthopaedic practice. I think that he had his own set of issues. Honestly, we all just take our own different path. Besides, I think it would be a little hippocritical (sp?) of me to begrudge anyone else's good fortune considering the fact that my kids will probably know more financial security than we did if and when we ever finish.

Oh yeah, DH's dad sold furniture at a Department store for 30 years and his mom was a labor and delivery nursing aide. Like Vishenka's parents, they were the beneficiaries of being only children to Uber-frugal depression era parents. They inherited several windfall and earned themselves a pretty pension through their respective jobs.

Kelly

[Tenacious_D]

My side of the family would what I would call lower middle class comfortable. As a child you don't realize that things are financially tough when all of your friends live the same way. I didn't realize that we weren't middle class until I went to private school (on scholarship) and saw what real money was like. DH's family is wealthy. They pay for everything and it definitely makes me uncomfortable. They recently paid for a trip for us all to go to Japan (8 people in total). 8 days and they paid for food, hotel, travel EVERYTHING!! My parents couldn't do that. My dad trys to pay when he can but I rather he spend money on my younger siblings who are still in school.

I guess since I didn't grow up with the whole idea that parents are expected to pay for everything (DH's grandfather still pays for dinner for DH's parents when we all go out) I am not used to it. I try to pay for my things whenever possible. I also don't like the idea that now I am forever in debt because his parents paid for stuff. MIL is the type to bring up the costs of things after having offered to pay. UGGHHH

[mommax3]

My background is anything BUT well-to-do. My father left my mother (the first time ) when I was 5 and the oldest of three girls. Eventually, after several reconciliations and subsequent departures, I was the oldest of FOUR girls, and the fourth was severely handicapped. My Dad was a high school band director w/master's degree, and pretty much was making the best money a teacher can make......but he couldn't/wouldn't manage it well, and basically never paid child support. Let's say that I am *quite* familiar with the federal school lunch program, as well as food stamps and emergency welfare payments. I ate free lunch at school from 1st grade through 9th grade, when my mom finished college, got a teaching job, and we stopped qualifying for any help. Surprise, surprise....we were worse off when she was working than we were before. My clothes were Goodwill, hand-me-downs, and end-of-season clearance stuff. As far as food.....my mother's parents planted a huge garden each year and my mom canned/froze stuff like a maniac and it fed us all year long. Her parents would give her half a (butchered) steer each November for her birthday, and that is how we got meat. And don't forget gov't cheese! Honestly, my little sister's SSI allowance (because she was handicapped) was often the only money we could count on getting during the month. We lived in an 1100 sq. ft. rental that took a beating because my sister was in a wheelchair, and the house was definitely NOT handicapped accessible! We took piano lessons from a lady down the street in exchange for my mom teaching her how to drive. I started babysitting at age 11 and pretty much paid for the stuff I wanted from that. I went to college on a full scholarship, part due to my SAT scores and part due to a vocal performance award. I worked the whole time I was in college to pay for room & board and anything I needed. My mom got me a car for $1000 halfway through my junior year of college because I needed one to observe at different schools, etc. It was a 1981 Mercury Lynx and a piece of crap, but it was all she could afford.....and I paid her pack that summer. I was pretty much self-supporting (except for health insurance, which was through my Dad) from age 18 on.

DH's family is a little better off....his mom was mostly a SAHM, but was a music teacher in the schools off and on while he was in high school. His Dad is now a vet school Dean in KS, but at that time was a lowly asst. professor at Purdue and they were definitely NOT rolling in it. They sacrificed to send their boys to private school from K-8, also planted a big garden, and ate animals they raised (pork and lamb) to save money, and they heated their house with a woodstove for the same reason. (Even today, my MIL is really cut in her arms from all those years of chopping wood.) DH got several scholarships, and his parents were able to pay some for his undergrad education at an in-state private liberal arts school.....they could swing this because DH's mom was teaching, and they had never depended on her salary for living expenses, so it could go to college costs. Also, by this time, DH's Dad was a Dept. Head at Purdue and a full professor, so he was making more money.

When we were first married, DH's parents and my mother would feed us on weekends, and if we ate out (rare with my family because of my sister) DH's parents would pay. They helped us out when our car would break down (yep, still the good old Mercury Lynx) by loaning us one of theirs (think 1978 Chrysler, old minivan, or ancient blue pick up) until we could afford to get ours fixed.

Now that our parents are in their sixties and have had kids out of the house for awhile, they have gotten further along in their careers and can afford to do some nice things for us.....DH's Dad LOVES to take his three grown sons and their wives out to a nice place and pick up the tab, even though he doesn't need to....and we certainly don't expect him to! My mom can't really afford to do that, but I know she helps my sisters out with money when they are desperate, and that is fine with me. If we go out with DH's parents, they pay about 50% of the time. With my mom, we usually pay.

For my kids, I have struggled with the conflict between wanting to give them "the best" and wanting them to have the character that comes from not getting everything handed to you. Frankly right now, between paying down our debt and paying private school tuition, there really isn't any need for me to be concerned that my kids have it too easy, because we don't have much extra money! So I guess maybe that's a good thing?

Sally

[Flynn]

This is interesting.

I think this is one issue that falls into the "perspective" category. "Entitled" depends on what you define as luxury and where you come from as far as your family unit.

I come from mid-western "work hard don't belly ache be honest and do your best" people who also happen to have great senses of humor too! They were high school sweet hearts, have just celebrated 39 years of marriage, and are financially upper-middle class. They both came from modest homes and worked hard. They each have graduate degrees.

When we were young, my dad drove a volks bug for 15 years despite being an "executive" we went camping for family vacations and when we did go on an airplane to a far away place you can bet there was grandparent visits involved. We were very lucky kids but my parents said "no" often and I'm glad they did.

My parents believe very strongly in education and as a result paid for my entire education. The same went from my two siblings. I'm not sure how they did it. Currently, my parents financial status is much different from when we were kids.

My parents do pay for things other parents cannot afford but most often they are necessary items (winter coats for the kids) or time with family (a trip to see my brother and his wife). They both are great at finding the right "inexpensive" gift for my kids to make them smile. They are creative and fantastic role models.

My parents are generous -- absolutely -- but I would never consider myself spoiled.

My DH's parents are completely different. His mom raised he and his sister by herself with regular checks from his dad. My MIL is not well off and gets a bit too excited for my taste that we will be done and "making real money" soon. His Dad remarried, has a 17 year old son and has seen my daughter twice and my son once. He is not frugal, he is cheap.

So that's us. I think balance is the key here. Some people have more and they want to share it. Good for them. If it gets too much though there can be hard feelings or "strings" attached to generosity.

I think at least with my parents we have a great balance. They could afford to give us much more than they do but they know it wouldn't be good for us and I respect that. Yet, they are very generous and it comes down to more than just what they spend. I'm pretty lucky to have them.

[SueC]

I don't see the need to justify my parents or my in-laws doing nice things for us. They all worked hard to get where they are with the intention of doing more for their kids than was done for them. Period. As a kid, I didn't have everything handed to me and I'm extremely appreciative of the things they do for us. We have always been very thankful and appreciative, never assuming they would pay for this or that and certainly never asking. When they get too luxurious with the kids, dh and I politely ask them to reel it back and to make sure the kids aren't being sent the wrong message.
My dad has already told me that his goal in life is to leave my sisters and I as big an inheritance as possible. I told him I'd rather him enjoy his money in his own lifetime, but he insists that is still his plan.

[mommax3]

I don't see the need to justify my parents or my in-laws doing nice things for us.

I agree with this.....I got a little carried away before because I felt like my credibility as a formerly poor person was somehow being maligned!

When my kids are adults.....heck yeah I will help them out, with college AND grad school tuition if we are able. I can't imagine why I wouldn't? Money does not buy happiness, but there have been many occasions where it has (or could have) made my life a little easier and my grasp on sanity a little firmer. Believe me, if my kids start feeling entitled, they will get a reality check and it will happen LONG before they become adults. I don't think those attitudes crop up overnight.

Sally

[Auspicious]

Man it's hard to write a concise answer to this one!

Right now my parents always pay, and I attribute that to this just being the phase of life we're in. The things they pay for are neither basic necessities nor extravagances (I wouldn't be comfortable with either of those) but just extra fun things--movie tickets, dinner at Applebee's, an outfit or two of school clothes for the neice and nephew. I think they enjoy doing that and not sweating it and that's part of what they've worked for all this time.

Ten years from now we may be in the phase of life wherein I drive to their house every day to make sure they remembered to take all their pills or whatever, and I hope they don't sweat that, either.


My husband is the son of a mail carrier and a nurse. He has complained about how at times it seems like everyone else in medicine comes from money and/or nice families, but I eventually sort of told him to get over it and he did. He's made peace with it.

[Sheherezade]

Totally well-to-do here. Of course, my parents have not helped me out financially at all since college - mainly because I don't like to borrow money. They could in a heart beat, though, and I am sure that has made a huge difference in my life.

[migirl]

Well, I'm not going to be apologetic about it, but our parents pay for just about everything when we go out (dinner, movies, etc) and have bought and paid for many, many things for us (ranging from everyday groceries to furniture for the baby to helping pay off DH's med school loans). Are we spoiled? I don't think so. We certainly don't expect or ask them to do these things, and we're definitely appreciative and make sure to let them know just how grateful for everything they do for us.

My father is a family doctor in private practice in a rural area ... I would call my upbringing upper-middle class. My MIL is by no means a wealthy woman, but she likes to help us out when she can and has let us know that the gravy train is ending once she retires in a few years. In the meantime, she likes being able to do nice things for us and we're certainly not in a position to turn her down or reciprocate. Once DH becomes an attending in a few years and our parents retire, we fully intend to help them as much as we can so I think it goes both ways.

[SuzySunshine]

Our parents still pay for things, especially DH's parents. I think that will always be the way it is even after we're done with training, I just don't see them letting us pay for much.

We tend to pay for more things with my parents but they don't mind and neither do we. I suspect we'll pay for more and more with my parents just because my sisters and I are very successful because of the way they raised us and we want to pay them back. My father works for the government and my mother doesn't make much either so we like to be able to help them and they appreciate it but don't expect it.

[Phoebe]

DH and I grew up in middle-class families. When we were younger neither of our parents had money. My father had a range of jobs from fire fighter to car salesman and my mom became a nurse when I was in middle school. I probably got more than I should because my parents didn't really live within their means. DH's parents lived in a teacher's salary and talked about how poor they were until their dad became a principal later in life.

During training, our parents paid for stuff like meals, etc. My mom always felt like she was the mother and was supposed to pay. Now that we are out-of-training, we pay for more because she helps us out a lot. Dh's parents still like to pay and they do it for all their kids. We steal the checks more often though.

Jennifer