SAHM

I see compairing women and saying their choices are hurting feminism as hurting feminism.

The whole point, as far as I have been able to tell, is to make it possible for women AND men to do what they are most gifted at, what will fullfill them the most without being restrained by artificial gender roles.

This whole SAHvBTW debate chafes my formerly hairy armpit. Talk about giving the patriarchical old boys club ammunition.

[Auspicious]

Here's a link to the Hirshman American Prospect article:

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?...rticleId=10659

Not lately...please go on, in detail :=

I see compairing women and saying their choices are hurting feminism as hurting feminism.

The whole point, as far as I have been able to tell, is to make it possible for women AND men to do what they are most gifted at, what will fullfill them the most without being restrained by artificial gender roles.

This whole SAHvBTW debate chafes my formerly hairy armpit. Talk about giving the patriarchical old boys club ammunition.

Atta girl, Tracy! You said it better than I ever could.

This whole SAHvBTW debate chafes my formerly hairy armpit.

Have I ever told you how much I love you, Tracy :---

Love it.

[SueC]

I only skimmed everybody else's responses, so pardon me if I'm repeating anybody.
My mom was a career woman, and I admired the heck out of her for it (still do). None of my classmate's moms stayed at home, so it never occured to me that it might have been different. It wasn't until that I got pregnant that the possibility of staying home with the kids entered my mind. My heart has always been at home, even though I've worked at home up until the present time (technically my business is still going, but that is another thread ). I've got very good friends that work full-time, part-time, from home, or whatever and I don't think I am a better mom or love my kids more because of the choices I made. I'm fortunate that my dh's salary now allows me to make the choice to stay home and that he is supportive of my choice.
I don't think woman staying home is contrary to the feminist movement. I think it's fantastic that women feel more empowered to make either choice today than they might have felt 50 years ago.
One thing that drives me crazy is how women become so defensive over their own choices that they feel the need to attack moms who have made a different choice. I think we as women need to stick together a little more. I want my girls to pursue careers and not feel judged if they so desire, and I want them to stay home and raise my grandbabies if that is what they would prefer. I hope that by the time they are adults, there are more abundent choices for woman who want to work part-time or flex-time if they want career and kids. Women today who go part-time seem to get screwed out of benefits, promotions, respect, etc.

[migirl]

I feel very blessed to be able to make a choice and that's how I define feminism. Freedom to choose.

I agree with this completely. I've been a SAHM for ... 10.5 weeks now , and it's so weird to me how I feel the need to justify and/or apologize for this choice that I've made.

My mom stayed home when I was growing up, and that probably shaded my view of parenthood. With the job that I had and the career path that I was headed down, I don't feel the least bit conflicted about staying home with our son. I was underpaid, unfulfilled, and not the least bit interested in it. It was a job that paid the bills and that was it to me. Would my choice (and viewpoint) be different if I'd had an interesting career and job about which I was truly passionate? Maybe. I recognize that I'm very, very fortunate that we're in the financial position for me to be able to do this so I try to not complain too much about the low points of SAHM-hood, but ... this is hard! Much harder than I'd ever expected, but infinitely more rewarding.

I'm not sure what I'll do once our children are school-aged. My (former) career isn't one that lends itself well to gaps in employment (not that I'd want to return to it anyway), so we'll see when the time comes. I can't really see myself being one of those dawkter's wives who plays tennis and 'lunches'.

I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I've got a fussy child sitting in my lap as I try to type this!

OK, not to step on anyone's toes, but I have a different view of this. I didn't see the show/read the book and I certainly don't think being a SAHM is an abdication of feminism, intellect, etc.

However, I think its incredibly risky in the subset of cases where the stay at home spouse either lacks marketable job skills or loses their marketability as a result of staying at home for extremely long periods of time (>5 or 7 years). Unfortunately, while we all talk about "our" residency, "our" match, "our" money, the legal system does not take the view that it is "our" career upon divorce. I have seen several unhappy cases of spouses who have taken a dramatic dive in quality of life after divorce, particularly when child support was inadequate or after it expired. Some of these spouses did not have the skills or training to support themselves at even a very minimal level - - which I find so sad after all these spouses invested in the md's career.

Even if we all somehow manage to elude the 30%? 50%? divorce rate (which seems statistically unlikely), I have also seen couples remain unhappily married because one spouse is financially dependent. For me, it has always been so important to know every day of my marriage that I am there one hundred percent because I want to be - - and for me personally the key ingredient to that type of indepence is knowing I could walk away and support myself and family in our current upper/middle-class lifestyle on my own steam. (It helps that I love my job and that dh has been extremely supportive of coordinating both of our careers together - - without those factors, it would be much tougher).

So, my feeling is not that being a SAHM is inherently wrong or inferior - - but that in an a capitalist society, its unwise to invest exclusively in SOMEONE ELSE's human capital. I wish we lived in a society where there were safety nets for health care, education etc and where SAHMs were valued, paid even, or at least retirement-funded for their work . . .

[PrincessFiona]

Interesting perspective, and definitely worthy of discussing. Welcome to the iMSN by the way...


What you are suggesting is something that I have thought of too. My own mother experienced a serious quality of life plummet following a divorce that she didn't choose...she now has no health insurance and substantial financial issues.

Someone on another board once mentioned the idea of 'sliding into dependency' over the years of being a sahp, and it occurred to me that this happens to many of us, even those with an education. The longer you are out of the job market/your field, the more difficult it is to get back in! As much as we play up the 'value' of being a sahp this isn't backed up by our social security being paid in for that time, for example. As a matter of fact, many sahp's feel like they have to fight just for respect in general. It also seems that in many states, divorce laws protect the children...but not the parent who stayed at home to raise them. Being a sahp is a calculated risk...one that isn't really in favor of the sahp.

My mom's best friend lives in TX and she was a sahm to 4 girls. Her husband left her the day after the youngest graduated from high school (he had planned it that way w/o her realizing it). She was literally left as a middle age woman with no education and no career prospects. She workds in a fabric shop now making $7/hour. Her dh lives in a fabulous home and has the 'good life'.

Food for thought...

Of course, I think we were trying to avoid a debate here.

kris

[Rapunzel]

I think what needs to be tackled is the fact that the divorce rate is so high to begin with. THAT is the root of the problem. 30-50% divorce rate for medical professionals!?! Is that true? I know that the rest of the population has an astronomical divorce rate and that is a major concern. Why are so many families literally falling apart? Is marriage so undervalued in our culture that we are truly OK with serial monogomy? Are children like pets - where we just assign them out to a guardian when the relationship doesn't work out? Cavalier attitudes towards marriage and parenthood disturb me greatly. Why do we value marriage and parenthood in our society so little that so many women feel they must turn to the government (of all places!) looking for financial support?

[Sheherezade]

Mommy Wars is on Diane Rehm right now.....if anyone is interested. The author interviewed has an interesting perspective. She only allowed essayists that told "the whole truth" about their choices - good and bad. It's refreshing. So many women are so aligned to their choice that they don't let any of the "bad" side of their decisions show through. It is an emotional topic and women get defensive quick. It's clear to me that all choices suck. Well....at least all choices have a downside to Mom or child.

[Sheherezade]

oops....bad idea......removed the post

It's clear to me that all choices suck.

Our positive thought for the day.

[Sheherezade]

You can always count on me.

I think that the 40-50% divorce rate is for the general population. It varies depending on several factors -- age of woman at marriage, length of marriage (divorce rate at 5 versus 15 years), cohabitation prior to marriage, children, etc.

I searched around a little and that seemed to be a general range when not looking at specific factors. Divorce rates for second and third marriages are higher. My quick search did not yield rates specific to physicians though I know it's out there.

Angie -- I was just teasing