Is it really like this?

[rockgirl]

Is it really like this all the time for you ladies? Are you overwhelmingly depended on to take care of everything at all costs without your significant other even considerate of the circumstances? How much of this should I expect in the coming years being an MS3 wife with residency around the corner. Is there anything you wish you had ironed out before the S**t hit the fan during residency/training? Do you wish you lived closer to family/friends to help during situations like those described above?

I do not want to analyze all these situations to death but in everyone's stories that I have been catching up on and reading, I see my husband in many of them. Please tell me all the things you wished you had a heart to heart about before kids, before moving far away, before your life was revolving around his so much. What do you wish you had discussed in greater detail about your futures? Or did you not discuss these things?

Last quick questions.....
What has been the best part of being a spouse of a doctor? What makes this whole crappy lifestyle worthwhile? Well, besides being madly in love with this person..... Thanks in advance for any advice!!

[Sheherezade]

Interesting question...but I think it should be a new thread. I think you would get some great (or at least interesting) responses. Would you mind editing out your question and starting it as a new post? (Or maybe we could get a talented administrator to do that?)

[Vishenka69]

would say prescriptions, but DH won't do that. Okay, I'm still thinking...I just have to go with, I'm madly in love with my husband, that is the only thing that makes the lifestyle worth it. I don't mean that to sound as negative as it does but...

Okay, anyone else like to pick up where I'm leaving off?

Nope, that's it for me too. It's also helpful to have him around when in a hospital or requiring surgery (as level of care is very different). Ok, now I'm done.

[Vanquisher]

Is it really like this all the time for you ladies? Are you overwhelmingly depended on to take care of everything at all costs without your significant other even considerate of the circumstances?

Yes, it really is like this all the time. At least, it is at my house. I am overwhelmingly depended on to take care of everything at all costs without my significant other. The caveat is that he IS considerate of the circumstances. He tries to help out as much as possible, but it's me pretty much all the time.

How much of this should I expect in the coming years being an MS3 wife with residency around the corner?

Residency sucks. No two ways about it. It sucks slightly less bad if your dh is not going into a surgical residency. It depends on how well you cope, and it depends on your build-up of your own life. It depends on whether or not you have kids.

Is there anything you wish you had ironed out before the S**t hit the fan during residency/training?

Yes, I wish we knew it would be this hard. We talked a few nights ago and decided that we would have made a different specialty decision.

Do you wish you lived closer to family/friends to help during situations like those described above?

Absolutely! When you go into a competitive specialty though, and the only ortho program that is around is highly competitive to get into on top of that, and there isn't another program for hundreds or thousands of miles in any direction, you can't always make that happen. I miss my mom. I need my mom.

Last quick questions.....
What has been the best part of being a spouse of a doctor? What makes this whole crappy lifestyle worthwhile? Well, besides being madly in love with this person..... Thanks in advance for any advice!!

I am madly in love with my husband. He removed a mole from my armpit last Saturday. Don't know if that's a significant enough perk. I love, love, love him!

[SueC]

I try not to really spend too much time looking at the big picture. Lots of times it isn't fair and I do way more than my share, but it is what it is and after 7.5 years I'm pretty much at peace with the status quo. This is a shit week as far as dh's schedule goes, but we'll do our own thing and next week he'll be home (probably tired but he'll be here). Maybe it's a defeatists attitude, but I know that the time I have spent trying to sort out whether or not its worth it, whether or not I'm getting screwed, and how it will affect the kids didn't seem to get me very far.

[Sheherezade]

The big issues for me would have been (in retrospect)

1) Time off around the birth of our children. I still hold a grudge that I went through all pregnancy appointments and deliveries basically alone - despite having a husband on the OB/GYN service. After the first, which was like having my first baby at my husband's office party, I elected to not call him until I was 10 cm and pushing. That way, people actually noticed me - the mother - and didn't just slap him on the back and say good job. If I'd had my way I would have had the babies at a good but separate facility, and I would have insisted that he have at least a week off after we returned home. (He didn't have any time off at all.)

2) Moving. I would have liked the moving to cease after we had school aged kids. We did discuss this one, but there was no way around it.

3) My job. Somehow (don't laugh) we had this naive idea about taking turns in making career choices that benefited a spouse's job. He went to medical school in the city I chose for work. I went to residency in the city he chose - and stayed home because it held no realistic job opportunities for me. (I also wanted one parent to be home most of the time.) Unfortunately, with the path he has chosen, there have been no more choices picked out by me. It wouldn't matter anyway, since he would not be able to pitch in his share of childcare. Maybe he would be now. Hmmmm.

In the end, I think being flexible is key - so I don't know if negotiations prior to setting off make any difference. They might just lead to total frustration. My advice would be to set up some method to keep communication flowing even in the worst of times - and to make sure he will respect you perspective of life as a couple even when he is in the trenches.

[DCJenn]

Is it really like this all the time for you ladies?

++++Not just us ladies but our male counterparts do everything as well. Essentially Dawkters Spouse= banker, cook, laundry person, chauffer, maid, butler, lawn guy, pool guy, uterus (and once the wee ones are hatched- the dad male spouses take over), and pretty much anything else except get trained as a doctor

Are you overwhelmingly depended on to take care of everything at all costs without your significant other even considerate of the circumstances?

++++We have a thread going about one of us missing a dear relative's funeral; I know that we all know exactly what that felt like for her because all of us have missed important events OR travelled solo OR travelled solo with kids to attend said events. It sucks. You do resent them. It's a fact.

How much of this should I expect in the coming years being an MS3 wife with residency around the corner.

++++Residency sucks. Fellowship is worse. Internship year sucks the most for most people, but some have had the unfortunate experience of PGY 2 or 3 sucking even worse. Fellowship is when you take the dessicated soul that you have become and suck it even further dry.

Is there anything you wish you had ironed out before the S**t hit the fan during residency/training?

++++I wish I had found this place before we started, but it wasn't until halfway through intern year at 2am that I found this Godsend...

Do you wish you lived closer to family/friends to help during situations like those described above?

++++We did get to return to my hometown for fellowship which to be honest is probably the biggest reason why my husband isn't in pieces in the Chesapeake Bay. Seriously- if you have family and friends who aren't more work than the doctor, if you can take advantage. If you have a needy family or groups of friends who think you'll be rolling in cash- it's easier and mentally healthier to stay away.

My husband is a fabulous guy, a dedicated husband and father- and he works his ass off, every single day. and 90% of the time, he comes home excited to see us, excited about his patients and the challenge of whatever neurological issue they may have. I can't deny him that.

However, there's another post that we discussed financial aspects of being a stay at home parent- for me, it's more the financial aspects of being an adult partner to an adult partner who has a huge time/energy/life black hole- I have my own life, with my own interests, and my own financial stuff. I am here because I want to be, and believe me, it's quite liberating to know that I can entertain myself VERY well.

I have had some pretty amazing experiences throughout these last 6 years that he's missed out on because of his training. He made his choice to go into medicine, and I made my choice to- oh, let's pick one- do a marathon in Ireland- without him. I took my friend and we had a great 10 day vacation. He's missed weddings and funerals and family reunions, graduations, births, surgeries etc. He's missed fun vacations, interesting concerts, shows, and dinners. I stayed in Russia for the whole two weeks after our court date adopting our son- by myself. The Army only let him have one week of leave and I'm quite certain that any other civilian program probably would have done the exact same thing.

The key for us is that I conceded my choice in location. I did not concede my entire life. and when he gets too big for his britches, I remind him that if not for me he'd be living in a leased 1999 Honda Accord with a credit score of 2.

Jenn

[mommax3]

Is it really like this all the time for you ladies?

Yes, it is, depending on where we are in the process and what specialty our spouses chose. Somebody has to do the stuff that makes life livable while the dawkter is (in my case) learning everything you never wanted to know about female nether regions.

Are you overwhelmingly depended on to take care of everything at all costs without your significant other even considerate of the circumstances?

I was and am overwhelmingly depended on.....but I would say that DH is extremely considerate when he is around and very cognizant of what it is like when he isn't. To be fair, he included me in his decision of specialty, and although I knew it would be hard, (but had no idea exactly HOW hard ) I also knew that he had worked hard in med school and this specialty was where his interests and talents seemed to be leading. I can't plead total ignorance.....none of this was thrust upon me. There are some things that only hindsight can teach you.

How much of this should I expect in the coming years being an MS3 wife with residency around the corner.

Like others have said, it depends on what specialty your DH chooses, whether or not you have kids, and how far you are from other support people. If we had done residency in the same city as medical school, things would have been MUCH easier because our family would have been close to us. If we hadn't had kids during residency and I would have kept working, lots of things would have been more bearable.....but like I said above, I had equal say in a lot of the things that ended up making it a difficult road, like our timing concerning when we had our kids. So I can't blame DH!

Is there anything you wish you had ironed out before the S**t hit the fan during residency/training?

I don't know how to answer this because I still don't know how either DH or I could have countered the total absorption that began the first day of intern year. It was truly like the hospitals just sucked him in and sent an exhausted shell home to me every so often. Our lack of control, mine AND his, was complete and total. No amount of discussion ahead of time would have changed the demands of the job.

Do you wish you lived closer to family/friends to help during situations like those described above?

If you would have asked me that during residency, I would have said "absolutely". However, now that we are almost five years out, I would have to say that getting through that time and surviving on our own was one of the best things to happen in our marriage. I am thankful for the skills I learned during that four years, and I know I wouldn't have learned them if we had stayed close to "home".

What has been the best part of being a spouse of a doctor? What makes this whole crappy lifestyle worthwhile?

I am nuts about my husband.....he is my best friend. I would feel that way about him regardless of his profession, but this is what he chose. He is good at it and I am proud of him. He has often told me that he would not have made it through without me and the boys.....I don't know if that is true, but I know that being a husband and father enhances his life and he wouldn't be either of those things without me! Going through hard stuff with your spouse (medical training or whatever) and coming out on the other side intact gives you a bond with them that is hard to wish away, no matter how hellish the experience was. The trick, though, is the "coming out intact" part. The only other thing I can think of that makes the crappy lifestyle worth it is that he makes a nice salary that gives me the freedom to not have to work, and will allow me to do what I enjoy (and even go back to school) if and when I want to go back to work.

Sally

[SuzySunshine]

I'm not going to reiterate everything everyone has said, it is hard and you have to have open communication but you also have to understand sometimes it is out of your DH's control.

I will second, third, fourth, and fifth planning the vacations to break up the year though. We've gotten to where my DH asks for a three day weekend, at least, every month or every other month. Last weekend we went to a bed and breakfast and just relaxed, ate, slept, did some shopping, just got away from here and his pager. It makes a HUGE difference.

[Vishenka69]

Is it really like this all the time for you ladies? Are you overwhelmingly depended on to take care of everything at all costs without your significant other even considerate of the circumstances?

Yes, being a medical spouse is a 24/7 job. For the most part our SO's are only responsible for going to work/school. At times I don't mind, as I like things done my way but sometimes I do miss his help.

Is there anything you wish you had ironed out before the S**t hit the fan during residency/training? Do you wish you lived closer to family/friends to help during situations like those described above?

I made it very clear that I will not stick around for a surgical residency, move across country, buy a house or have kids until he's done with training. Despite living close to friends and family, I did not want to burden myself with extra responsibilities. Neither one of us wants to have a large family or have a big house, so postponing those was easy. And I didn't have to convince him too much about staying close to both families. I don't know if I'd be able to be as supportive if I didn't have their support.

[houseelf]

Is it really like this all the time for you ladies?

Um, I would guess that many individuals here don't even post all the gory details.

You have received GREAT, honest advice, so I'l try to add only something new. However, I'm not the best person to ask because our situation is an extreme: Nine years surgical training far from home with kid(s) the entire duration.

The single biggest mistake we made in the beginning and early years: Smugness. We were confident that we would rise above everyone elses hardships. I am here to tell you, this is a damn hard way to go. We love each other dearly, but I'm still not sure that we will survive this entirely intact. Really.

Choose wisely. Really investigate your options.

Best of luck.

Kelly

[Flynn]

Great advice so far.

Yes, if you don't take charge and handle anything NOTHING will get done. It's that simple.

A lot has to do with what type of residency your DH goes into and how long it is.

Regardless, residency sucks -- that's the bottom line.

Is it worth it?

Ask me in 5 years and I'll be able to answer honestly and without bitter bias. Right now I would say that NOTHING is worth the time you have to sacrifice and the family stresses. I hope it's worth it. I really do.

My "standard" line when anyone asks me if "it's worth it" is:

"I would turn down 5 million dollars to do it again."

[Rapunzel]

Is it really like this all the time for you ladies? Are you overwhelmingly depended on to take care of everything at all costs without your significant other even considerate of the circumstances?

No. It is not like that all of the time.

But, depending upon what he is going through in training it can be as you describe sometimes (being overwhelmingly depended on to take care of everything at all costs). Generally my significant other IS considerate of the circumstances and tries to make up for the bad times later on. Sometimes that isn't the case - but, more often than not, it is.

Right now my husband is studying for his oral boards (the last of three board exams). He is a ball of nerves. And, I am taking up the slack because I realize this board exam affects my future just as much as it does his. I've invested a great deal into his career and I consider the time right now where I am running the show to be a big part of that investment.

My husband wasn't always considerate of all the hard work I do. When he was a 21-year-old entering medical school he had no clue - NO CLUE - all the work I did as his wife and the mother of our child (soon to be children). But, as he has matured over the last nine years he has gradually grown to truly appreciate what I do. And, the same goes for me. I've gradually grown to appreciate the extra work he has done to make my life at home more bearable financially and emotionally. In the end I have learned that a relationship is never 50-50 at any given moment. Usually one partner is heavily taking up the slack of the other one. In my marriage it has usually been myself taking up the slack. But, there have definitely been times where I have leaned heavily on my husband (such as the birth of our fifth child this last summer).

How much of this should I expect in the coming years being an MS3 wife with residency around the corner. Is there anything you wish you had ironed out before the S**t hit the fan during residency/training?

I wish we had laid out definite plans on what to do when I had my bad days while pregnant. We've eventually figured out all the contingency plans to the point where things went OK with this last child. But, it sure would've helped to have discussed all these potential issues before I had my second pregnancy during medical school!

Somethings we DID iron out before medical school that I'm glad about:
We both made a firm commitment that, no matter what, I would be a full-time mom and it was (and is) his responsibility to make sure that we have the financial means to make that happen.

Do you wish you lived closer to family/friends to help during situations like those described above?

I've now gone through the first year of residency living near family and these last four years of residency living across the country from any family. YES I wish I lived closer to family during the rough parts. However, I think that my marriage grew stronger with us having to work out the kinks sans outside help. Kind of a trial by fire scenario: The only way to truly make a sword strong is to plunge it into the fire.

I do not want to analyze all these situations to death but in everyone's stories that I have been catching up on and reading, I see my husband in many of them. Please tell me all the things you wished you had a heart to heart about before kids, before moving far away, before your life was revolving around his so much. What do you wish you had discussed in greater detail about your futures? Or did you not discuss these things?

Funny thing: When my husband started medical school he didn't know that residency existed! Neither of us did! We both thought you went to medical school, graduated, and started practicing! Ahhhh, to be that naive again.... So, my husband came home shocked that first week of medical school to tell me about this additional, mandatory, years long training after school called "residency". That took a while to truly sink in!

Often you don't know WHAT your individual marriage is going to be like during training until you get there. What you read about everyone else's marriages, similarities aside, are uniquely their own experiences as they are unique individuals within those marriages.

That being said, potential things to discuss:
1) Who is going to be responsible for various aspects of parenting?
2) Will he put his family before his career if it came down to it?
3) Make your future support needs a priority. Devote funds or whatever NOW to paying for future trips back home, a nice place to live, etc.

Last quick questions.....
What has been the best part of being a spouse of a doctor? What makes this whole crappy lifestyle worthwhile? Well, besides being madly in love with this person..... Thanks in advance for any advice!!

My family's future makes this worthwhile. I know that just in residency alone we are living better lives financially than either side of our families. And, the income is only going to improve over time. We will be able to do things that my parents and inlaws could never do as far as enhancing our children's futures. My husband is also a very happy man. He loves his job - no, he adores it. I love him and want him to be happy. And, having him spend everyday of his working life doing something he loves is important to me because I love him.

One other point: I think my view is partially colored by my child-hood experiences. My mother was depended upon to take care of EVERYTHING. She did all the parenting. All of it. My father worked as many as three jobs at a time. We lived in a glorified shack during most of my childhood (when we weren't living with my grandparents in t heir tiny home). My father is a..... unique man. He grew up horribly abused and he isn't always the most considerate person as a result because he has had to work very hard to maintain normal, functioning relationships. For his background he has done an amazing psychological re-work on himself.

So, being married to a man who is usually quite considerate of my plight; who takes an active role in parenting his kids; who has made a huge effort to make my own goals of full-time motherhood a reality; and who is able to provide for us (so I don't have the stomach-wrenching stress of wondering how I will feed my children that my own parents often faced) is an enormous blessing.

There are hard things about this life - most certainly. But, I have a perspective on them that provides me with a bit of optimsim as well as knowledge that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of other ways my life could have gone and it would've been equally hard - or more so. This particular route my life has taken faces its own unique challenges, but the knowledge that ALL other possibilities in life would have equal, unique challenges gives me hope.

[rockgirl]

Thank you so much for all of your rather insightful and heartfelt responses. Again I am sooo lucky to have found an outlet like this one and I feel like everyone is really close to one another around here no matter how many miles may separate all of us.

Here's the major issue behind all the questions I previously asked....

We are on the fence about kids which really is dependent on my choices. He said he is ready when I am. We want kids, a few, maybe 3. If my biological clock was not ticking we could totally wait. We currently live 2 hours from family, my brother is right down the road and I have some friends who I am close to nearby. The great part about where we are is the support that we would have if we got pregnant now. In addition, we are approaching MS4 which, as I hear, is when there actually is time, to care for a newborn or spend time together as a couple. The hubby will be going into surgery (ortho) hopefully, which I support and I am thinking it is not too family friendly.

Here's what I am thinking... Do we go for it now (when we have some support) if in the next year we will be probably moving, with child, far far away from where we are currently, and then be doing this all by myself because DH has to be at the hospital all the time. Or we can wait. We get older, few yrs later, keep working ,save up some more then have a baby when again, DH is working and misses most of the process. I am just going back and forth as to whether those 3-4 months of him being around for baby #1 would be doable for us. Just thinking out loud.. any feedback would be great!

I know this is a personal dilema/decision but it never hurts to ask for advice.

[SuzySunshine]

I'm sure you'll get lots of different answers for this one too and since we are currently without children take my advice with a grain of salt - but here is where we're at.

We got married the summer before my DH was a MS4 of 5. My DH's residency is seven year with years 5-6 being research, i.e. VERY little in hospital and call time, hence the perfect time to have our first child. However we are now 29, going to be 30 in the fall. Waiting until 5-6 would make us 33ish for the first child which we decided was too old. Plus we are now having issues so it good we started when we did. We now hope to have child #1 during third year and child #2 during 5th or 6th year. The thought process being that I know being a single mom sucks but I'd rather do it with one than two, so if we have #2 when planned DH will be on a MUCH easier schedule and be able to help more.

We do not have the family around to help which I'm sure would have changed our decision. My two cents, I'm sure the current moms will have different thoughts.