Would s/he do it for you?

[Rapunzel]

In many ways, Kris and I married the same man.

Jon read the original post and I kind of already knew what his response would be. Jon is what could be called a hyper-competitive "alpha-male" (if he were, say, of the lupine species or something of that nature). He just wouldn't be happy unless he was playing with the sharks in a more high-stakes game (and, oh my, did we have an experience today that demonstrated soooo well he swims with sharks here ). He said, "I know it's terribly politically incorrect, but I was raised to be the one who provides completely for my family." That is ingrained into him. I really think he would be miserable in any other situation.

Then, he switched gears and said, "I don't define my success in life by my career. I define it by the comfort and security I can give my family." When I asked him, "Do you think I could provide the same security and comfort?" He said, "Yes." Then I asked, "What would you do if I were the one providing those things for you and our children?" His response: "I could not do as a good a job at YOUR job as you do right now (being a mom full-time). I think you could do a great job providing for us if that's what you did, but I don't think I could do as good a job at doing everything else we need like you do."

It was an interesting conversation.

He also said, "Well, what IS your dream?" And, quite frankly, I think I am living my dream which is: To be happy, to have healthy, happy children who have everything they need and a bit of what they want (ie luxuries), to have a partner who I trust and respect. I guess I don't define my "dream" in life by a career, money, or fame either. It gives me a great deal of happiness to see how far Jon can get - almost like a game or something. I actually get giddy for him when he has something good happen. I don't think I live vicariously through him because, truly, I would HATE to have his particular job/career! Bleh! But, it is so fun to see how far the envelope can be pushed with his particular job. I think that in some ways he is the same with me (And, I AM kind of ambitious after all. I mean I DO have five kids, homeschool four of them, and have goals like keeping my body in the exact same condition as when I got married AND keeping my own learning going while not in school, etc. That is fairly ambitious.).

I guess Jon and I have an unconventional relationship. As the years go by it's starting to feel more and more like we're two appendages of the same organism and what helps one of us and/or makes one of us happy does so for the other. We have a long way to go, but I can't wait to see what we're like in our 50's....



BTW I'm listening to Seal right now. That man is GOOD! Heidi Klum is another lucky woman (along with Gywnneth)....

[spotty_dog]

D'oh, I think I made some too-vague statements. To get everything out on the table: I graduated with an undergraduate degree (Physics major, Math minor) in 2001. Hubby (then boyfriend) got accepted to medical school in 2002. Since then, I've made a LOT of seemingly one-sided sacrifices. I moved 2500 miles to a city I'd never seen, I picked up a menial job to cover both our living expenses and some of his tuition, in a couple of months I'll be moving another 2200 miles to another unknown city, and starting this fall when I give birth to our first child I'll be staying home full time. So basically from 2001 to 2006 I've had no job prospects and yet I haven't been able to pursue my true desire which is motherhood. Seems like a pretty bum deal. But because it's my CHOICE, and because we're working toward the same end, it doesn't feel that way from the inside.

Staying home might work for me permanently, and my kids will always be my first priority. I've evaluated the risk of not being able to support myself on a moment's notice, and I'm willing to take it. Domestic life is very rewarding to me even without kids. But on the other hand the desire to go back to my studies, the thirst to learn and the enjoyment of teaching, has been building in me for months now. I'll probably find a part-time career outside the home eventually, but it's a really low key push, and it's something I'd do for the challenge rather than the money. I'm just grateful that I can make choices like the latter, you know?

So yeah. Would he really REALLY go to the lengths I've gone to? Oof. Honestly, I doubt it. But that's because of the person he is, always DOING, pushing, going further, exceeding all limits -- it's a compulsion. If I were the compulsive doer and he the easygoing dilettante, and everything else were the same -- the nature of our relationship is such that I'd say yeah, he'd turn the tables if it meant making me happy and making our future secure. It's an awfully tough hypothetical though!

[Rapunzel]

For my husband and for myself, a job is something that pays the bills. Hopefully it's interesting, keeps the mind engaged, gives back to society. But LIFE is what happens OUTSIDE of working hours. That's when we share time together, give in big and small ways of our time and energy to each other, make strides toward the big picture goals that we BOTH share. Little or no compromise is necessary there. There's no sacrifice so that one or the other gets what they want.

In that sense, every day my husband is doing what is necessary to make MY dream come true.

I just went back through and actually read all the posts on the thread (aside from the original post I to which I responded) ANNNNDDDD, I completely agree with this, Alison. This is very much our attitude. Very well put!

EDIT: Jon just read the above by Alison and said, "EXACTLY!"

[HeartRN]

So yeah. Would he really REALLY go to the lengths I've gone to? Oof. Honestly, I doubt it. But that's because of the person he is, always DOING, pushing, going further, exceeding all limits -- it's a compulsion. If I were the compulsive doer and he the easygoing dilettante, and everything else were the same -- the nature of our relationship is such that I'd say yeah, he'd turn the tables if it meant making me happy and making our future secure. It's an awfully tough hypothetical though!

I'm right here with ya, girlfriend...it's very hypothetical here, too...while DH ENCOURAGED me to take this job and move to CA without him (he's still in VA, DD and I are here), and this job really is what I've been very interested in pursuing AND because bedside nursing was making us ALL crazy (lack of schedule, etc, etc), I can say he has made a big sacrifice. The difference being, he had to really encourage ME to make the change, and made the case to me that it will be better in the long run (that is, coming here and being apart for 6 months is the sacrifice made to have a more stable and predictable schedule later which benefits everybody in our family). I am by nature VERY stubborn sometimes , and while some people might think us insane for being separated for this lengthy period, I am grateful DH encouraged me to come here. It's not easy for him to be away from both of us, especially his little girl, but in every respect, I feel he has sacrificed that for me and for us, so life is better for us in the long run. I honestly don't know if this makes sense....it's pretty run on and tangential, and maybe even a little weird..sooooooo.....in sum...

While I don't know if DH would pick up everything and follow me if the roles were reversed, I do feel he has made major sacrifices to ensure I am as happy as I can possibly be in my career, too, even if it's meant a little (much needed) nudge in the right direction. I'm happier in this job than I've been for a long time, and I know it will be better for our family once we are all reunited.

[planet]

Yes, my husband would make what sacrifices he could for the sake of my dreams. We went together to all but three of his med school interviews and I was the one to pick the school. Residency rank list was discussed and made together. I tend to think of these as more concrete indications to others than to me of our mutual sacrifices. In both of our eyes the sacrifices we each make are all mixed into the same pot for the mutual gain of the family. I come here to complain sometimes, but the fact is that if I ask him to do something he will do everything in his ability to do it. We have our current roles and this is a tough time. I don't actually find it to be helpful to separate our sacrifices into benefitting me or him. Not that I never do it.

The other thing is that since we have been together for a while and, well, I was the better academic, he still jokes that we should have reversed roles. He knows my dreams. Only some of them are realistic for us to make happen as a team. I do believe that he fully intends to do what he can to help my dreams come true. Ours is a constantly negotiated relationship. We each keep changing, but as our basic values started in a simialr place and have not wandered far I think that part of the fun is the push/pull of this relationship. The part including internship can bring out the evil side of me though. I have made him prove his commitment by keeping him up post call to go places or take the kids on his own so I can do artwork. Evil, yes, but I'm just not that friggin' holy.

I have the whole spectrum of marraiges in my extended family. This has let me see that it really is up to the family to determine what their pathway to fulfillment might be.

I just love it when Alison answers a question...saves so much typing and I can just say 'ditto' to a good chunk of your post. Sms92, it is nice to hear your thought process and involvement in this conversation. I also thought I was not at all a stay at home kind of person, but found that I LOVE the freedom to do, well, whatever. The whole world is before me. Seeing the world through the eyes, ears, and questions of a little one is the most remarkable thing I have ever experienced. I didn't know squat about kids before having my own.

[spotty_dog]

I just love it when Alison answers a question...saves so much typing and I can just say 'ditto' to a good chunk of your post.

Yay, everybody's benefitting from my complete inability to focus on my work! Composing long posts is so much easier on my poor fuzzy brain than, like, figuring out the garbled manuscript template for Angewandte Chimie.

This is such a great thread, and really got me thinking. I don't know if SO would do for me what I'm willing to do for him. It's like comparing apples and eggs. Our ambitions are so different. He has career ambitions and I don't really. Right now, and for the next several years, I am the breadwinner (note: we have no kids). I was fortunate enough to land a job in non-profit that pays uncommonly well. I know, however, that once his income surpasses mine and if this gig gets stale, I'll be able to find, or start training for, a role that I can really sink my teeth into. Who knows, I'm all over the place when it comes to what I want to be when I grow up. I've tended to take jobs that come my way, instead of seeking them out. And for the most part, I haven't been unhappy. It’ll be nice to pursue (or figure out) my dream once SO is out of residency and we're settled and more stable. Like Rapunzel though, for now it's pretty easy for me to watch him succeed and grow. I also get really excited for him, like when they asked him to be chief, you'd have thought he asked me to marry him from my reaction.

[mommax3]

What an interesting thread! I have loved reading all of the responses.

When DH and I got married, we were VERY young, both in years and in experiences. I had a vague dream of staying home with my kids, once we had them. He had a vague dream of grad school, perhaps in medicine or in music. Two years into our marriage, he decided to pursue the medicine dream. I was okay with that because in my mind, it seemed more likely that I would get to stay home with my kids at some point.

Here is what DH has done to make MY dreams come true.......

He joined the Air Force in order to have some money coming in during med school.....this allowed us to have our first child. He has *never* indicated how much nicer it would have been if we would have waited a little longer to have kids. Even one year of me teaching while DH was a resident would have helped us SO much financially, but we have taken the tag team approach to supporting the family, and have never had two incomes coming in at the same time. DH has sacrificed what little free time he had during residency and beyond to be a great father to our kids, and a wonderful husband to me. This is not to say that he had no desire for children, but I think I was much more driven to have them than he was. Also, without sounding arrogant, he has sacrificed time with me because of the demands that the kids have made/make on my life.

I have moved away from family and friends more than once, I have spent every major holiday and birthday alone, multiple times, and have dealt with a lot of stuff by myself because of his work hours. But I know that when he is working, he is working for his family, doing what he feels called to do. Would he do for me what I have done for him? I guess I feel that in a roundabout way, he has, in that we have done all of this together, although each of us has had different roles.

When we got married, we both dreamed of raising a family, and that is what we are doing. I feel like both of our dreams have come true. I don't feel like life is perfect, and I don't think I ever will. Things are always changing and what makes me happy today may not tomorrow. Life as a SAHM is very different from what I imagined years ago......sometimes better, lots of times worse! DH has always been supportive about changes in my work status and the other changes that would bring to our lives. But to tell the truth, life as a music teacher (my degree) wasn't all I had imagined it to be, either, and I was a LOT more stressed doing that than I am being an at-home mom. I am not a very ambitious person, so my opinions here may not be helpful to those who have a career that really fulfills them, but I think that DH and I have always looked at it as relationship first, and all the rest after that, and that helps us feel like we are in it together and not competing for whose turn it is.

Sally

[Vanquisher]

I asked dh about this, and as I knew it would be, his response was, "Absolutely!"

As a family we have to make the best decisions we can together for our family, and at this time that is for me to be at home with the kids. If I asked him to, he would quit his residency and watch the kids while I pursued my dream. Of course, this isn't even remotely feasible. If and when I want my turn to follow a career path outside of motherhood, my husband will support whatever path I decide to follow and help make those dreams come true, including moving around the country, taking locum tenens positions, or whatever he needs to do to make it work. By that time my kids will both be in school full-time, and we should have enough money that I can follow my own path and be okay doing it, whatever that path is.

I just don't know what to do - that's the problem. My dh and I both wanted to go to med school, but he had a bigger drive to do it than I, and I had an awful pregnancy. We both decided that it would be best for me to stay home while he continued on this path. I had always planned to go back and pick up where I left off, but I am so jaded and bitter about medicine, that I do not think I can. I don't think I can relive this experience again, ever, on either side of the picture. I may go to PA school. I might be able to work very closely with my dh this way, and I would love that. Or, I could work in peds, or ER, or any number of things. So, my plan now is to be a PA. But, I might decide "to hell with it all" and just enjoy myself travelling and learning new things.

[Meenah]

Heidi there are alot of jobs for PAs, go for it.
Luanne

I don't think DH would do this for me, he is way too obsessed with medicine.
Luanne

[twinsmom]

Disclaimer... I am right in the middle of bitter wife syndrome, so this response may be a little one-sided...

In answer to the question... well, right now I can't even get my hubby to study at home while the kids are in bed so that I can go to a church training meeting, so I think him giving up things for my dream is pretty much mute at this point.

He actually brought up me getting my masters, PhD, or JD a few years back, and our conversation went something like this... DH "Honey, that would be awesome if you went to law school!" Me, "Okay, are you going to come home at 5:00 EVERY day so that I can take the time I need to study and go to night classes?" DH, in complete shock, "Of course I couldn't do that!" Me, "Well, there's your answer... the kids don't come with on/off switches that I can just flip to 'off' and put them in the corner..."

Ahhh, the joys of this medical journey... I am right now at least a 2 day drive from any of my family, with no close friends, no money, and 3 kids 3 and under, with the prospect that because of his dream, we will be here for the rest of our lives (which makes my heart hurt when I get the emails from my brothers and sisters, who are all right now building houses literally within blocks of each other - yes, we have one of those wierd "LOVE to be around each other" families, and it REALLY works!!... except for when I live thousands of miles away!!).

Ya, just a WE BIT BITTER here. Give me a few days and I'll snap out of it .

Jen B.

[Rapunzel]

Jen B.,

[pstone]

Not only would she, but I think she would love me to take over the work side so she could stay home.

[Vishenka69]

The short answer is Yes. The long answer is he already made some sacrificies along the way (we stayed in NYC for med school and residency, we picked a family friendly specialty) and we agreed that once he becomes an attending, I can take time to figure out what I want. He'll fully support any decision I made either going back to school full time or having kids and staying home with them or working part time. If I found a field that made me as happy and fulfilled as medicine makes him (and brough in same paycheck), he'd happily move across country for me and become a SAHD.

[houseelf]

I want to thank everyone for their honesty.

Would DH do what I have done? If I'm truly, totally honest, no. I have to explain that we are very, very different people. DH's dream is what he is doing. Not to get all hokey or put him on a pedastal, but he is passionate about what he does. (The dark side of this is that sometimes he confuses whether he "works to live" or "lives to work"). In other words, DH would not be happy if he wasn't on this route. (NOTE: this admission is not made to say that DH is more committed or credentialed than any other spouse here, it is just the way that I see him in MY own life).

He has compromised. For example, his current number one fellowship choice is going to at least number 5 because it is NOT in our family's best interest. (And if I can push that program farther down I will).

In contrast to DH, I like my job, but I definitely work to live. I've had other good and bad jobs in the past. I gave up an exciting good career path for him and honestly, it wan't that big of a deal. As I said, I view it only as a job, not a dream, a calling, or anything else. Nothing means more to me than my family and our collective happiness and well being. These differing perspectives have created quite a few ummmm..."discussions" in our household, but it is what it is.

I think that he wouldn't completely give up his career goals because they are so intrinsically intwined with who he is. However, he has and will continue to compromise if he wants our marriage to work. The hard part is getting him to compromise as much as I want him to and getting us all to a decision that we can live with. Now that is the delicate dance that we are fumbling through.

Kelly