Announcement

Collapse

Facebook Forum Migration

Our forums have migrated to Facebook. If you are already an iMSN forum member you will be grandfathered in.

To access the Call Room and Marriage Matters, head to: https://m.facebook.com/groups/400932...eferrer=search

You can find the health and fitness forums here: https://m.facebook.com/groups/133538...eferrer=search

Private parenting discussions are here: https://m.facebook.com/groups/382903...eferrer=search

We look forward to seeing you on Facebook!
See more
See less

parents of school-age children . . . can this be true?!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • parents of school-age children . . . can this be true?!

    Ok, dh and I are planning to start a family in the next 1-2 years. I was browsing at Barnes and Nobles this afternoon, procrastinating away on a deadline when I came across a book entitled something like Queen Bee moms and Kingpin Dads.

    The author, while suggesting that parents adopt a more low-key approach, wrote extensively on how parents should handle conflict situations such as:
    1. Having your child discuss a perceived unfair grade on a single paper with the teacher. Or, the parent going to discuss it.

    2. What to do in the frequent situation that the PTA is controlled by a mom who revels in her petty power, talks behind everyone's back, and exercises despotic control over issues like will there be coffee at the brunch. For example, how to assert yourself over the fact that there must be coffee or that mom 1 shouldn't badmouth mom 2.

    3. Also, while not endorsing, the book included myriad stories of parents joining PTA in order to lobby to get their kids into certain classes, with certain teachers etc, parents going absolutely crazy over college admissions including dropping thousands on special consultants, parents talking about how other parents' kid looks slutty, and parents on this PTA organization generally sniping at each other, arguing over ridiculous details (cookies versus brownies!), etc.

    I cannot envision having this type of extreme involvement in every detail of my child's life and maintaining my sanity. For example, I cannot imagine interceding over a single bad grade (yes, over a very bad grade for an entire year or quarter but a single paper or even string of papers!). I can't imagine encouraging my child to talk to their teacher over isolated instances of perceived unfair grades - - I mean, life is not a meritocracy. And, this PTA thing sounds like hell on earth as described in the book, plus as working parents dh and I would need to choose our volunteer activities carefully, preferably those where we are interacting with our child not other adults. I also can't imagine calling other parents because their kid was mean to my kid or because my kid wasn't invited to a birthday party - - prolonged bullying and hazing yes, of course, you should address but the book talked about confronting parents when child friendship breaks up and former child friend is now mean to your child. I can't even imagine where parents get the time for all of this active intervention!

    What the book described sounded to me like the worst kind of return to high school imaginable. It also made me wonder if, in the event the author is correct in her descriptions, we are raising a generation of self-centered whiners! Or, maybe this is some sign that dh and I are not ready for parenting or should stay in the city or should raise our children abroad!!!

    Are your schools, PTAs, parenting interactions as, uh, intense as this book describes? Did your views change when you actually had children (i.e., did you, like me, think you would give your child a fair amount of space pre-children but changed, experienced a visceral protectiveness when your child was born).

  • #2
    Thanks so much for the reply and in rereading my post, I apologize it was so disjointed and long. Perusing this book gave me tremors, I must admit, and my mental state carried over to the post!

    Let me just say there may indeed be one father on PTA in the future - - dh. I spoke to him this afternoon in a panic and he said that if indeed one of us had to be on PTA or some similar organization, which he doubted, that he would do it. I think he recognizes that I am not exactly the most diplomatic member of the family . . .

    Anyway, very interested to hear everyone's experiences.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've already become dismayed by the "high-school-ness" of some moms ... and my kids are just in preschool! A friend of mine refers to these people are "mommier-than-thou". I guess I'll just have to ignore / deal with them as I did when actually in high school.

      As for the visceral protectiveness ... it comes when the baby comes. It's just all about your values and what you see as protecting rather than cajoling or coddling. I would not go fight with a teacher over a single grade or the like. My kids need to learn to EARN what they get. If there is truly unfair treatment, then I assume I'll deal with it at that point.

      But the protectiveness is truly a sight to be seen. The first time an older kid (still a toddler himself) knocked over my baby I was shocked at the "mama bear" feeling that came over me. I wanted to knock that kid outta the park! - as though that would EVER be the appropirate thing to do! You'll have the feeling - you just have to know that you'll channel it correctly.

      Oh - and a generation of whiners? Yep.

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree that presenting extreme situations help sell books. I felt the same about Odd Girl Out. Interesting look at the problem of girl bullies but rehashing the same extreme situations over and over and not offering much in terms of solutions.

        There are definitely some over the top parents at our school, some involved with the PTA and/or Foundation. I consider them a known quantity and pretty much ignore or work around them and don't add fuel to their fire. Did I join the foundation board to get my kid in a certain classroom? Not at all. Like Tara said, being around the school and having that as an avenue to get to know staff and the principal isn't a bad thing. Unless I felt it was a *really* big deal, I will let the teachers do their job of picking my daughter's next classroom. So far I don't have any reason not to trust their judgement.

        This year the president elect of our PTA is a dad. About 1/3 of the Foundation Board is men.

        Comment


        • #5
          This response is going to be disjointed...but here goes. I read an article based on this book in Child Magazine a few months ago and I was enraged. I *almost* was motivated enough to write the magazine. I find this author to be somewhat mysoginistic (sp?), elitist, and anti-mother.

          While I absolutely agree that parenting has gotten out of control on some levels, most of the parents I meet are just doing the best that they can. I'll even go so far to admit that I've fallen prey to overanalyzing parenting decisions and overbooking my oldest child with too many activities in the past. So I'm partially guilty of some of her critiques.

          With this being said, however, the women that she talks about clearly live in the highest socioeconomic strata and have too much time and money to burn. I'm sure that they do indeed exist but these are not the majority of moms that I meet who are wondering how about more basic issues like how the hell they are going to solve the crisis du jour. Normal questions for most parents I meet include: How do I keep my job and get to show up for my kid's school play today? How can I get my child to progress past this developmental stumbling block which feels so overwhelming to both of us? How can I pay the mortgage and piano lessons this month?

          I find that most women I meet are softened and humbled by the enormity of motherhood. Sure, there are always going to be Alpha females who misdirect their competitive nature, but this doesnt' appear to be the norm from my perspective. Most of the time my mom friends and I sit around joking about how incompetent we are as parents.

          I know that my son's school is by no means representative of the majority of schools, but I will say that HALF of the parent board is male, including the position of president.

          Please realize that any passionate tone is directed towards this author, not the questioner. I felt like this author capitalized on stereotyping women and mothers and it got me pretty hell-fired up. We women don't need men to subjugate us. We got plenty of our own willing to tear us down.

          Kelly
          In my dreams I run with the Kenyans.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, PTA Mom Politics - another reason I homeschool.



            (You'd be surprised at how many parents homeschool to avoid the childishness of adults - both teachers and the students' parents. Judging from the stories I've heard it sounds like that book is right on target).
            Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
            With fingernails that shine like justice
            And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

            Comment


            • #7
              I tend to volunteer in the classroom as a teacher aide rather than join the parent organization. It plays more to my strengths and I am happiest working with kids.

              Having said that, I honestly haven't run across the things described by the author in the schools where my kids have been. I don't know if it is because my kids have been in private christian schools or not. The one they are in now does not have many families in a high socio-economic strata......the one we were in before did, but it was the only game in town and there wasn't competition about getting in or getting particular teachers.

              I think it is just like other "supposed" trends.....it's out there, but you can avoid it easily.

              Sally
              Wife of an OB/Gyn, mom to three boys, middle school choir teacher.

              "I don't know when Dad will be home."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: parents of school-age children . . . can this be true?!

                Originally posted by sms92
                Ok, dh and I are planning to start a family in the next 1-2 years. I was browsing at Barnes and Nobles this afternoon, procrastinating away on a deadline when I came across a book entitled something like Queen Bee moms and Kingpin Dads...
                Well, I agree that if a child feels that their grade was unfair that they should talk to the teacher about it...and I have no problem with a parent discussing it with the teacher. I'm opposed to any kind of attempts to have grades raised just because they aren't want mom and dad wanted of course. We had a teacher who graded my son down consistently 1 letter grade because of his art work. I thought it was unfair and I said so...If anything, if a child goes to his/her teacher and asks about a grade they might find out why they got the grade that they did and will be able to remedy it next time around. I think kids can be proactive as long as they aren't asking about every grade and are only questioning something that they truly don't understand.

                PTA moms...ugh...We do indeed have moms here who buddy up with the academic extensions teachers, dye their kids hair in 1st grade and send them to gymnastics 5x a week hoping that they'll be cheerleaders someday, etc. I have actually experienced/heard so much snobbery/sniping/backstabbing that I stay clear from a lot of people. Mom 1 badmouthing mom 2? Women do it before they have children but then they are competing about clothes, weight, etc etc...Having kids just gives people with certain personalities the opportunity to compete in a new arena.

                I also can't imagine calling other parents because their kid was mean to my kid
                We were just called for exactly this reason on Friday night at 9.15. I had to actually sit out on the porch with my neighbor while she explained in front of our daughters how my daughter had hurt her daughter's feelings so much that her little girl had cried. The real story? Her daughter had sprayed water at a younger student and my daughter had said "that wasn't nice". The neighbor's daugther laughed and did it again and my daughter said "apparently, you aren't very good with children"

                Despite hearing the whole story, the mom sided with her snot of a daughter and then had the audacity to say to my daughter "Look, my daughter is one of the 'populars'. I know it isn't easy for you because you aren't in the popular group, but you can't be mean to my daughter".

                I later advised my daughter to keep up the good work. People just suk...

                Re: visceral protectivenes...yes...I would say that many of my opinions about how I would do things changed when it was my own children.
                ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: parents of school-age children . . . can this be true?!

                  Originally posted by PrincessFiona
                  despite hearing the whole story, the mom sided with her snot of a daughter and then had the audacity to say to my daughter "Look, my daughter is one of the 'populars'. I know it isn't easy for you because you aren't in the popular group, but you can't be mean to my daughter".
                  sounds like a first class asshole to me.(the mother) wait until her dtr enters the real world as an adult...she will have a major wake up call.
                  ~shacked up with an ob/gyn~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well....if you want to know how snarky I really am....

                    Her older daughter was also there and is also "not a popular". The mom actually sat there and talked about how unpopular the other daughter was and all of the problems she had had in the middle school cafeteria. Then she went on about how things would be harder at the middle school for AManda and how they would be easier for her daughter because she is so popular . "Daughter x won't have those problems because she is so popular".

                    So I said " Do you really think that the 7th and 8th graders who are teasing your older daughter will care that your younger daughter was popular in 4th grade? Pleeease." This caused the younger daughter to say "I'm scared, mommy". I'm such a bitch.

                    Then I turned to her younger daughter and said "you have been very nice to Amanda here at home. You have invited her for sleepovers and have played nicely with her. At school, you ignore her and call her names. That is very hurtful and she no longer feels like she can play with you anymore".

                    Amanda nearly had a heart attack.

                    I don't care.

                    People suk.

                    Oh...this IS crazy neighbor, btw in case you were wondering.
                    ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                    ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PrincessFiona
                      So I said " Do you really think that the 7th and 8th graders who are teasing your older daughter will care that your younger daughter was popular in 4th grade? Pleeease." This caused the younger daughter to say "I'm scared, mommy". I'm such a bitch.
                      :> She left that wide open.

                      I wondered if it was that neighbor.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Kris, that is an awful story - - really, it sounds like something you would see in a movie and would later comment that it wasn't really believable, because how could a grown woman behave that way. Ugh- - I feel sorry for that women's daughters.

                        Thanks for the other comments, including the ones that suggested the book somewhat extreme and one-sided. I was HOPING this was the case as I was, as you may have guessed from my post, completely freaked out by what the book described. I think part of the problem for me is that in my adult life I have experienced very little sniping, talking behind peoples' backs, competitiveness, etc. I have been blessed in that my friends are all terrific and my colleagues are all really busy and we work autonomously 98% of the time - - so I haven't really experienced the competing over clothes, weight, job stuff, men whatever that I guess can be so common. Or, alternatively perhaps everyone is talking behind my back and I am blissfully unaware! Anyway, this is part of the reason I was so taken aback.

                        I think you all are right that one needs to find his/her own parenting model. I have a feeling mine is going to be alot less interventionist than what this book describes . . . dh and I would BOTH need to quit our jobs and set up an extensive home database before we could possibly keep track of things down to the level of each individual homework grade, squabble, grade by grade social popularity ratings, etc!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Then I turned to her younger daughter and said "you have been very nice to Amanda here at home. You have invited her for sleepovers and have played nicely with her. At school, you ignore her and call her names. That is very hurtful and she no longer feels like she can play with you anymore".
                          Oh, man. I had one of those neighbors. She was definitely more "popular" than I was in elementary school, but by dint of proximity, we were "friends" when we were at home. I had my own friends at school, though, too, even though we weren't the "popular" crowd, and we pretty much mututally ignored each other (no name-calling that I remember). Once I was old enough to be able to hang out with my REAL friends who lived a little further away, we rarely even saw each other any more.

                          If there had been name-calling at school, I'm sure my mom would have said something like what you said. I hope for your neighbor's older daughter's sake that she doesn't take her mom's total crap to heart.

                          I'm still grateful that my parents were elementary and middle-school teachers; they *knew* when to intervene and when not to; they were definitely involved parents, but just as definitely not *over* involved.

                          -Sandy
                          Sandy
                          Wife of EM Attending, Web Programmer, mom to one older lady scaredy-cat and one sweet-but-dumb younger boy kitty

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I feel sorry for the older daughter. Mom said "her friends scare me" in front of her and made comments about her lack of popularity etc....that poor girl! The 'popular' sister is truly like something out of the movie "Mean Girls". I almost laughed at her overblown hand motions and bratty little attitude.

                            Oh...mom did advise me that if I bought my daughter some diff. clothing she might be more popular.

                            hmmm..whatever.
                            ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                            ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Crazy Neighbor had better be rolling in dough because it's going to take a mountain of it to pay for her kids' future therapy!!!



                              That story wins any others I've heard - hands down.
                              Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
                              With fingernails that shine like justice
                              And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X