Residency choice tug-of-war

[lilponygirl]

So, dh is almost ready to hit the button on his ERAS and IF he gets an interview at Seattle he will probably be ranking it 3rd. I have a big issue with this for several reasons:

1. It's SO far from St. Louis, where all of my family and friends live.
2. If we decided to start a family we would be 2000 miles from everyone.
3. I HATE flying.
4. The fact that it rains more than the sun is out doesn't make me happy. I already struggle with depression, so the limited sun probably wouldn't be enough to keep my moods "happy".
5. Its expensive as hell.

I'm sure there are more reasons, but I'd say that's enough. Anyway, dh and I had a near-argument last night because I pointed out that he had almost 20 other residency programs he was applying to, why does he need to even apply at Seattle? He wouldn't hear any of it. He said, "I'm still going to apply there, and if I get called to interview I'm still going to."

I don't want to sound selfish, but I guess I am being selfish. I just don't see why he would bother applying if he knows how against moving there I am. I would think it would be easier in the end (on both of us) if he didn't go through the process of interviewing, cause then we'd REALLY have issues.

Anyone else have a similar experience?

From a BTDT perspective, I would say wait until after he is offered an interview and sees the program. He might not get an interview or he might not like it as much as he thinks. The risk, of course, is that he will love it. And then you have to get through the match.

There were some places on DH's ERAS list that I was *really* not happy about. Some of them offered interviews and others didn't. In the end, those interviews were at some well-regarded programs and I think it helped him a little (interviewers sometimes ask where else you are interviewing). I was ticked off about the list that went to ERAS but at the time it just left me mad. My energy was better spent discussing the match list. We put those places at the bottom of the list and I rationalized that if we did end up there, matching was better than not. Hope that helps.

[alison]

This sounds exactly like me and Gainesville one year ago!
I was born and raised in Seattle, so I'm probably not the one you want to discuss the location with, but really, I think Nellie has good advice. It's better not to limit your options at this point.

[SuzySunshine]

I agree with Nellie - leave the fight for the rank list - it is the one that matters. My DH applied to several programs I was less than thrilled about due to cost of living and location. He ended up not interviewing at one because the interview dates conflicted with a school he wanted worse. One of the others ended up at the bottom after he interviewed and another ended up not even being ranked b/c it was the one place he came home from and said "i'm not going there."

At this point let the interviews fall where they may, in the end it is the rank list that matters.

[houseelf]

OMG, we just went through this last Spring for the second time in our life. Holy Moly, these were some of the hardest conversations in 8 years of being together. Do you have access to the call room? You can read our saga about our fellowship rank list in the archives.

Just reading your posts brings back baaaaaad memories. <shudder> We have kids now so the stakes are much higher. For residency, we ended up at our number two spot because we just *knew* that we would get our number one choice for residency. We have spent the past six years in a place that I told DH he could rank as number two in the spirit of compromise. Let's just say that I wasn't going to make that mistake again.

I agree with what you've been told. Let your spouse get all excited about being wooed and exploring all the options. When he is all done, fight like hell because even stellar applicants don't always get their number one choice. You are the one who will live in that city, they will live at the hospital.

Also, don't stress about not liking a city that is someone else's idea of heaven around here. You have live YOUR life in a way that makes sense for you and your s.o. I felt the same way about a seemingly fabulous, fun East Coast city and people were like, "Girl, X is a fabulous town". However, this particular city would not have worked for us financially, for me professionally, or for the kids in regards to their extended family. DH and I had a Hell come to Jesus of epic proportions on this issue. Professional prestige is about number 50 on my list of concerns for potential areas that we may live. But I've become a little jaded after my time in medicine.

Clearly I have STRONG feelings about this issue.

Ugh. Fight the good fight.

Kelly

When he is all done, fight like hell because even stellar applicants don't always get their number one choice. You are the one who will live in that city, they will live at the hospital.

Kelly is right on about this. One person's utopia could be another's hell. Your spouse gets a job, co-workers, adult interaction, etc while you settle in, meet people, find a job, figure out where the hell Target is, etc. You get all of that too but it isn't automatic in the way residency is. (And you will do fine with all of that, but it is easier in a place you like to be!).

Lily -- Vanderbilt was one of those places that made me -- . (People in the south, don't jump on me! I just wasn't my preference). But the more I looked into Nashville, the better I liked it, esp compared to a few of the other options. And, of course, Vanderbilt was his first interview offer and for whatever reason most of his other programs offered interviews on their later side. For a while, it was looking like Vandy or one other place.

[ides]

I agree with what the others said. When we applied last year there were some places I really, really didn't want to move to. I kept telling him, we ain't movin' there! But he applied anyway, and we applied to a huge amout of programs. His reasoning was, we're only doing this once and I want to get a spot. It's better to get a spot in a yucky town than no position at all. And he was right. Wait and see how the intervews pan out. DH's mind changed a lot over the course of all those interviews. Also, if you can go on some of the interviews with him, esspecially to the cities you are most concered about, it will help you form concrete opinions about them. ERAS is just the begining, so don't worry so much yet. Good luck.

[Vanquisher]

I agree with the others to a large degree. My one and only caveat is that if it comes down to choosing between two programs to apply to, I would fight for those too. It is hard to formulate opinions on cities until you have been there, but there are some places that I knew we could not live in. We just did not have the money, and I didn't want to spend 5 years with my kids in a teeny tiny apartment in Manhattan so that he could go to NYC. Luckily, my dh and I agreed on these points, and for the most part we only applied to places that had lower costs of living. We still applied to a HUGE number of places though. Unless it is a facotr like that, though, I think you have to be fairly open.

I have moved thousands of miles away from my family twice - once to the northeast and once to the southeast. It sucks. When it came down to it though, there just weren't that many programs in the west, and only ONE program in the city my family is in, and that place didn't grant him an interview. This whole process is just one pile of heaping, well, you know.

The match list is definitely the most important. Fight hard for that.

[alison]

Like Kelly, I have to shudder when I think about what we went through for the rank order list. Dh interviewed at a very good program in NYC and I was rip-roaring ready to up and go (because MY GAWD, IT'S NYC!!!). Dh got there, and even though they have housing for residents in a good area, he....hated it. He grew up in a village in Germany where the eggs have feathers stuck to the outside of them He got to New York and didn't think he could stomach it. We fought over NYC, Gainesville and in the end, ended up staying where I'm going to school... But sheesh, we really put our marriage through the wringer.

[rainbabies]

dh and i did not waste any time/money/effort/emotions on applying to a place that neither of us wanted to live or raise our family. bottom line... don't apply to a program you would not rank.

[Vanquisher]

dh and i did not waste any time/money/effort/emotions on applying to a place that neither of us wanted to live or raise our family. bottom line... don't apply to a program you would not rank.

Depends on how competitive the residency you are applying for is. Would you rather not match or match somewhere you don't want to be?

There have been plenty of times I wished that dh had not matched in the last two years, for as much as it would have sucked, he might have had to go into radiology instead of surgery! :>

[SuzySunshine]

dh and i did not waste any time/money/effort/emotions on applying to a place that neither of us wanted to live or raise our family. bottom line... don't apply to a program you would not rank.

Depends on how competitive the residency you are applying for is. Would you rather not match or match somewhere you don't want to be?

I agree - DH and I only ruled out one location (LA) there were two people in his class that didn't match, they both admit if they hadn't been so picky they probably would have.

[alison]

or have to scramble for the unknowable...

[rainbabies]

i guess we just thought differently than most


ETA: i dont think we were too picky. we just didnt want to waste time applying to programs for no reason. dh still got 20+ interview requests. that included ob/gyn and IM. we have three children, a large dog, and three cats. why apply to places that are too expensive, that would not have pet accepting housing or be in great communities? we also dont enjoy large city living. i guess we were willing to take the chance that we would have to scramble....our way of doing things worked out.

Well, I am very much on one end of the continuum here but I am a strong believer that you need to protect your own interests - - because sadly even a spouse will often fail to do that for you.

In my case, we were juggling two careers though I would have had the a set of preferences - - and expected the same respect - - if I had a kids/family concern. Anyway, my husband went into internal medicine in part out of interest and in part because he knew it would offer me alot of flexibility. For residency, I picked the four cities I would be happy living in and could find the work I wanted in. He ONLY interviewed at and ranked those cities. We mutually agreed on order. When it came time for fellowship, I had a terrific job that was not portable and the deal was that he had to match in the city we were in because my job could not be moved. Unfortunately his fellowship was extremely, extremely competitive and he did not match the first time and so he decided to do an extra "chief resident" year and then he matched. My husband has alot more perspective and is more laidback than the average doctor - - he found none of these limitations devastating and pretty much felt like he would be happy doing almost anything in medicine. In contrast, my job is extremely competitive and hard to find a position and hard to move.
Yes, either of us could have had more prestigious employers, more money etc. if we only satisfied one person's needs but it would not have been a happy marriage. Anyway, you can tell your husband that at least one person you have "talked" to wrote the interview and rank list and then limited the fellowship selection to one city . . . I am sure he will be thrilled with your flexibility after hearing this!