Curve ball

Just when I was convinced that Russ was on his way for anesthesia, a curve ball was thrown our way. Russ is currently doing a rotation at a program that he was very interested in for general surgery. The program director came up to him today with the chief attending telling him that they would like him to be a resident in their surgical program next year. Yikes!!! It was nice to hear but ....



The thing that was most interesting about my conversation with Russ was that this news hasn't swayed his decision greatly. He is still leaning towards anesthesia. I was very surprised because it was the program he was most interested in for general surgery. Plus, it would make applying much easier. We would concentrate on just the DO match ranking this program first and then doing a few others for good measure.



He said that after this month and all the hours he has worked, he is not sure that he could keep that up for the next five years and still like it. So, we will do things the hard way (which is the way we usually do things! ) and do the allopathic match. Anesthesia is usually easier to match with but with Russ being a DO without the USMLE (long story) and wanting to match in the west, it will definitely be more challenging.



Anyway... couldn't help but share the latest. My roller coaster ride just did a corkscrew!!!



Robin

Egads! Boy, that sure does make the decision more difficult...so he is still leaning towards anesthesiology though? I don't know, Robin...I don't like the sound of this...



I can't imagine the stress that must be involved in standing at a fork in the road to actually determine the direction that your life will take. You are really supportive of him, and I admire you for that......When Thomas was a resident, everyone told him not to do a fellowship...even our family members. But really, at the end of the day, I felt like this was Thomas' career...and it is important to him. I wanted him to be happy and I supported the fellowship 100% because it meant so much to him......it was definately not an easy time..as you remember from all of my complaining and moaning ...but at the end of the day, it WAS worth it, Robin, because he really is happy with what he does now.



Whatever happens here...you will make it through together. For all it's worth, my vote is anesthesia....keep us posted!



Kris

Sorry I'm several days in replying to this post!



Robin, I think it is something with husbands that are DO's that make them enjoy this corkscrew, rollercoaster, "let's see what we can come up with today," mentality! I don't know if you saw my posts around June & July about where Dave & I were going for 3rd & 4th year rotations, but it was very similar to what you were describing in your post. I can only say-- smile, hang on tight and hope for the best at the end of it all!



The DO vs. MD thing doesn't really make things any easier, but it isn't insurmountable either. It sounds like you guys have a good grasp on that process. Dave wants to do a pediatric fellowship down the road. The osteo world has no such animal, so we are going the allopathic route. So, when the time comes, I'm smiling (between the occasional "I can't handle this anymore!" tears) , hanging on tight and hoping for the best (and for a move that is less than 800 miles )



Good luck with it-- from someone who has a pretty good idea of how you're feeling right now!



Wendy

Thanks Wendy for the support. I did read about your "trials" with finding out where you were going for 3rd and 4th years. It seems to me that it is the DO programs themselves that like to have everyone doing corkscrews!! Does Kirksville help much with residency?



We seem to be doing it all on our own without much help from the school. Russ went to speak to the dean about choosing the best route to go and the dean said he would only discuss DO residencies with him. No help at all with the allopathic match or what kind of chances he would have etc. Russ is only in the 3rd year graduating class so there aren't a lot of students ahead of us that can help either. It is irritating to me that we spend so much money on tuition and we seem to be doing everything ourselves, from setting up rotations to figuring out the whole residency thing. Sorry for the griping. I am grateful to be here and I believe Russ got a great education, especially in the first two years. But ... this whole residency thing is driving me nuts.



Russ does do things the hard way (we haven't figured out why yet! ) but it always works out in the end. I think I will close my eyes and hang on. Can't say life is dull! Thanks again Wendy!



Robin

Robin, why did the dean say that he would only discuss DO residencies with him? That is unusual, isn't it? I would think that the dean would want to encourage the student in either direction! There have to be some places out there to get information on different programs...I know that http://www.scutwork.com has residents review some of their programs...but I don't know if that would help much....



What about the students from the last two graduating classes? Does Russ have much contact with them?



Sorry to hear that you guys are having to do this all on your own..... I can't imagine!



Kris

Hi Kris,



I think the dean feels that because it is a DO school, he should push the students that direction even though I believe almost 90% of AZCOM students last year went allopathic. There is one student that Russ knows that went anesthesia last year and he is trying to find out where he can contact him. That should help a lot.



I have found most of my info from either scutwork.com or Freida and then the individual websites of the different programs. Crystal's comments have been very helpful too. I just haven't found the connection for a DO student in the whole process. It still amazes me that there is no counselor here to discuss all this with. They totally rely on you doing it yourselves and they do suggest contacting former students who have gone through the process. I hope Russ can locate this guy he knows that went the anesthesia route.



I would love to come back here and create a job for myself as the school's counselor. I would love that. I actually enjoy researching the programs and learning the ins and outs of the whole process. We now have a list of the programs we are interested in and the internships that could go with the 3 year programs. Now we need the DO perspective. It is getting there.



Sorry about my last post. I was REALLY frustrated the night I wrote it. I am not usually that grumpy! Of course, don't ask my kids about that!



Robin

You were grumpy? I didn't even come close to noticing!!!



Maybe you're finding your own "niche"...who knows, in a few years, you may just end up being a career counselor at AZCOM...wouldn't that be amazing? Better yet, Robin...throw your research together and put up a website..I'm willing to help...as long as you let me link to it from our links Seriously...I'm willing to help you if you want to try one.......I bet it would be a useful resource for many...call it...doresidency.com or something....just a cyberthought!!

Kris

Robin-



Check out this book-- The DO's guide to getting an MD residency (Why DO's eat their young) by Jeremy Weiss. Dave swears by this book, also being a DO that wants to go the allopathic route.



It isn't really surprising that the dean wasn't helpful. They have this habit of perpetuating the DO vs.MD controversy that really only exists in a few places. I think that they feel compelled to push the DO route even though they don't offer nearly enough spots for all the graduates they have! Kirksville doesn't offer much help as far as residencies are concerned, except that they did have the author of that book I just mentioned come and speak. One of the clubs did, anyway. KCOM does set up the 3rd and 4th year rotations for us, though. I understand that that issue is a big one with the AZCOM students.



I know that 5 or 6 people from KCOM's last graduating class matched into anesthsia residencies- don't know how many were DO or MD. I don't know how receptive they would be, but it may be worth a shot to call the school to see if any of their students that matched would be willing to be contacted by your husband. I know that they've been known to do similar things in the past.



As much as anything, I think networking is hugely important. Spend time with anesthesiologists where you are, find out if they know anyone in programs you are interested in. If Russ is a member of either the AOA and AMA contact them to see if they will give you contact info for members they have that are anesthsiologists. Dave was able to get the addresses of several DO pediatric cardiologists & intensivists that way. He wrote to several of them, got several responses and a few invitations for elective rotations. I know he set one up in Cleveland based on that contact.



Good luck with it and please keep us posted on the progress. It sounds like you & I are at about the same point in all of this.



Wendy

Thanks Wendy. I will try to find that book. Russ just started another rotation and this one is in Pontiac. There are quite a few students there right now and his roommate also happens to be going the anesthesia route so they have been comparing notes and I think that is helping. Your are right, networking is the key.



AZCOM actually does set up your 3rd and 4th year rotations with local physicians here. The problem is that none of them are affiliated with residency programs so if you are trying to get good letters of rec from a certain residency, you have to set those up yourself. So, we had them set all of them up and then we figured out where to switch things around to be able to make contact with the residencies we are interested in. I actually feel bad for the 2 people they hired to do all of the scheduling. They have their hands full!!!



Kris, that is an interesting idea for the DO residency website. Too bad I am COMPLETELY CLUELESS on how to do all the stuff you do. I will research it more and see if I can think if something. I wish I wasn't so busy to have more time to do things on my own. Time and place for everything I guess. Great suggestion though!



Thanks for your thoughts. I will keep you all posted ... as the saga continues!



Robin

Hi Robin,



I can relate. My fiance is going through the same thing and he's very stressed out. He's decided to go the DO route and we're planning to stay in AZ...



- Rachel

Rachel,



Is your husband planning on family practice or OB? We originally looked at both options because we wanted to stay here too. When Russ got into his clinical rotations he only heard negative things about the DO residency programs here because they just don't have a high work load so they don't see a wide variety. Dr. Ross (family practice) is great and he is involved with the family practice residency in Mesa. I would just make sure that they have enough patients to get the training your fiance wants. There is also some concern as to hospital privileges. Just something to look at before your fiance decides for sure.



It ended up, for Russ, that he really was not interested in FP enough to do it so we quit researching. Good luck.



Wendy, I looked up the bookon Medsite books and they said it is out of print! Any suggestions?



Robin

Rachel.......I hope you guys get a chance to go overseas!! Germany is sooo nice...I worked on the base in Giessen while I went to school over there, and so I had PX priviledges...ie...ID...and so Thomas and I used to go to the movies on base on the weekends. It was so fun.......



"Ahhhh memories, light the corners of my mind....." But no really, I'm envious of all of you (did I just SAY that?)...you are starting this incredible adventure....where you will match, the specialty you will choose...the next few years will be demanding...but they will be wonderful and exciting too.....I sort of.....miss it.....



Can you tell I'm desperately sleep-deprived?



Kris

Hey Robin!



My fiance has decided to go into family practice. Before he was kind of concerned about the training, but not anymore. Since the Air Force is paying for school, he will have to work for them after residency. It's cool because we can go anywhere in the world! (Kris - There's even a base in Germany).After residency, it will probably be 4 years with the Air Force and then he plans to come back and set-up a practice.



So, do you think your husband will go allopathic? It may seem like the route to take based on his field of interest. Where do you plan to go - west, mid-west, south, east? I'm originally from the west (CA), but I've been to the east coast. If things don't work out here in AZ, we're also looking at Texas (Dallas), Ohio (Columbus), and Missouri (Kansas City). (Trying to stay in the major cities so I can work )



Good luck on the residency match!



- Rachel

Kris, you must be sleep deprived! I am finding this way too stressful to want to do again. Maybe when it is all over and I can look back on it, it will be different but right now ... I am more envious of your position!



Rachel,

That sounds exciting being able to go to Germany afterwards. You have a lot of adventures ahead. With anesthesia, Russ would like to stay in the west or midwest if possible. We are looking at Colorado, Texas, Tucson, Utah, Nebraska, Iowa, Oregon and possibly Washington. All of our family is out west. I think we are going to skip applying to CA because of cost of living issues. Though I was looking at UC Davis and northern CA might be okay. We are just narrowing it down right now. Russ wants a bigger city to make sure that he gets the experience that he needs but I would prefer something a little smaller for the kids. Maybe I am just nostalgic for my own childhood. I like the smaller community feel. Anyway... we both have some exciting times ahead. I will be glad to finally find out where we are going. It seems like forever away but we will know in MARCH! We will definitely go the allopathic route for anesthesia which is a whole new game for us. We have concentrated on the DO route up until July so we are scrambling like crazy trying to get everything done.



Will your husband look at the allopathic family practice residencies here?



Robin

Hi Robin!



My fiance is looking into DO residencies. To him, it really doesen't matter. He told me he's not really into the whole medicine thing anymore. However, he's come this far and still has to pay back the military. So, he plans to finish that up and open a practice. Wants me to help him out...(Seems like I've been helping a lot of people in business lately. Eh, Kris?)



Anyways, I want to stay in AZ. I've gotten used to the lifestyle here. California is definitely way too expensive! Try $1500 per month for a two bedroom apartment. Here in AZ you can get one for $800 with a washer and dryer! It's not just the money thing though...I can't take the traffic in CA and it's so crowded!



UC Davis is "cow country" last time I heard. If you go up to Northern CA, will it be in San Francisco? I've never been but from what people tell me the traffic is much worse than LA but not as bad as New York.



Right now, my fiance is just starting to apply. He's just been putting it off...(It seems like ever since I met him, his interest in school has gone down...Geez, I hope I'm not a bad influence!)



Feel free to ask me any other questions about CA. One of my co-workers is going to be moving to Palm Springs and she's been asking too.



- Rachel